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No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

JumpinJack said:
Oh, God. Awful. He's too fat to be pushed to the ground like that. He repeatedly tells them he can't breathe. They should've let him up....he was weak at that point.

They should've just walked away and left him alone. Bizarre. I wonder if a store owner in the area paid the cops to get rid of the guy for interfering with their cigarette business. That's how bizarre the police actions seem to me.

This is just an older, fat, black man trying to make a few bucks. He's not knocking over a store or out running red lights or driving drunk.

Geez.
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When someone is resisting arrest, cops are trained to take that person to the ground face down and cuff them behind their back.

This individual was so large it took several officers to bring him down.

 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

dirtpoorchris said:
This cop prolly learned his choke hold in a MMA self defense crash course paid for by average citizens and decided he wanted to play with it and test it out on a giant.

Uggg.. I finally watched teh vid. The cop got him ina blood choke. He probably enacted a stroke by stopping blood to the brain for a few seconds. Hence why the guy keeps saying "I cant breath" after the cop let up a bit. It only takes a 2-3 seconds to effect the brain when your blood gets cut off at the neck. Some people can take it for more. Some people die after just a couple.

Like "the choking game" some kids die after the fact not exactly when the choke is going on.

Its insane that instead of giving the dude cpr or some **** they all just sorta lounge around as he is dying in front of their eyes.
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If some dude is kicking your ass, how do you want the cops to respond? By asking him, politely to stop kicking your ass, or to start--immediately--kicking HIS ass?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Peter Grimm said:
Well here's the full video

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This is outrageous. How can the GJ come up with no indictment after seeing this chokehold video and especially the medical report about compression to the neck and chest?

From the wiki, this officer, Daniel Pantaleo, had a history of abusing his power and false arrest. In one incident he ordered two black men to strip naked on the street for a search. This to me doesn't sound right.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

apdst said:
If some dude is kicking your ass, how do you want the cops to respond? By asking him, politely to stop kicking your ass, or to start--immediately--kicking HIS ass?
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are you ****in trolling? Where did the victim "kick ass"?? The cops were never in any danger. Seriously you gotta be baiting or something. Like... serioiusly. What the hell are you talking about? Obviously nothing in this video.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

dirtpoorchris said:
are you ****in trolling? Where did the victim "kick ass"?? The cops were never in any danger. Seriously you gotta be baiting or something.
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As I thought. ;)
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

beefheart said:
Arresting a guy for selling loose cigarettes.....

Insanity.

6 officers to arrest him for something that should be a ticket.

Cops killed this guy...and the bad cops get away with crap like this all the time.
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You object to the law. Fine. The right response is a tax revolt. We are Taxed Enough Already. Oh wait! Did I just do that? TEA Party. Now there is an idea whose time has come.

He committed suicide over at least two decades. He was morbidly obese. Have you arrived at the position that police may not arrest anyone who chooses not to be arrested?

Cool. That should help bring down what is left of the civil society.

Arm up. You are going to need it.
 
No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
I suppose it is possible that someone said he deserved to die. There have been lots of posts.

A grand jury reviewed the evidence and determined that there was insufficient evidence to charge someone with a crime. Are you claiming that the Grand Jury was corrupt?

If we give up grand juries, civilians drawn from among our neighbors, to hear the evidence a prosecutor has then we will be a police state.
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I'm not claiming the grand jury was corrupt; I'm claiming the grand jury was wrong.

When did I posit that we give up grand juries?
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

apdst said:
If some dude is kicking your ass, how do you want the cops to respond? By asking him, politely to stop kicking your ass, or to start--immediately--kicking HIS ass?
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Honestly. Me personally... If some guy was kicking my ass Id appreciate the cops help if I didnt deserve the ass kicking. But I usually prefer to handle things man to man. I definitely wouldnt call the cops on anyone who beat me up.... or tried. Id plot revenge and train harder....

But that has nothing to do with this video as the victim was non-violent.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
You object to the law. Fine. The right response is a tax revolt. We are Taxed Enough Already. Oh wait! Did I just do that? TEA Party. Now there is an idea whose time has come.

He committed suicide over at least two decades. He was morbidly obese. Have you arrived at the position that police may not arrest anyone who chooses not to be arrested?

Cool. That should help bring down what is left of the civil society.

Arm up. You are going to need it.
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He's dead because he's too fat, lazy and stupid to get a real job.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Texmex said:
BS lies! He was killed by the cops, his death was ruled a homicide. He didn't pick the fight, these ***** cops did, all this over selling loose cigarettes.

It may not matter however, I just heard Attorney General Eric Holder announce that there would be an investigation. Hopefully they will indict this murdering cop.
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Doesn't that frighten you that the Justice Department is intruding into local events? It does me. You are encouraging the growing tyranny. Do you believe you are immune to it?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
You object to the law. Fine. The right response is a tax revolt. We are Taxed Enough Already. Oh wait! Did I just do that? TEA Party. Now there is an idea whose time has come.

He committed suicide over at least two decades. He was morbidly obese. Have you arrived at the position that police may not arrest anyone who chooses not to be arrested?

Cool. That should help bring down what is left of the civil society.

Arm up. You are going to need it.
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Are you saying its ok to choke non-violent fat people or something? I see no logic in your arguement.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Peter Grimm said:
When someone is resisting arrest, cops are trained to take that person to the ground face down and cuff them behind their back.

This individual was so large it took several officers to bring him down.

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I see. I understand that. But surely there's an exception to that for unhealthy people. And then there's that disallowed chokehold. And the non-responsiveness to his "I can't breathe, I can't breathe, I can't breathe."

Awful. I support policemen. They have a dangerous job and have to make split second decisions. But this seems different to me. I think maybe they should've just left him alone or given him another ticket. He's not selling ciggies at that particular time. He's being respectful.

I don't know. So sad. It didn't have to happen.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

TheDemSocialist said:
Yes it was.
"Eight-year NYPD veteran Daniel Pantaleo responds by putting his arm around Garner’s neck in a chokehold – banned under police policy –"
Eric Garner: grand jury declines to indict NYPD officer over chokehold death | US news | The Guardian
"Pantaleo responded by wrapping his arm around Garner's neck in what appeared to be a chokehold, which is banned under NYPD policy."
Protests Erupt as Cop Cleared; Feds to Investigate - ABC News
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Right. It violated police policy. It was not illegal which was the implication.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

TheDemSocialist said:
Yes it was.
"Eight-year NYPD veteran Daniel Pantaleo responds by putting his arm around Garner’s neck in a chokehold – banned under police policy –"
Eric Garner: grand jury declines to indict NYPD officer over chokehold death | US news | The Guardian
"Pantaleo responded by wrapping his arm around Garner's neck in what appeared to be a chokehold, which is banned under NYPD policy."
Protests Erupt as Cop Cleared; Feds to Investigate - ABC News
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And why am I not surprised that you chose to edit where you did? Here is the original post:

The headline said it was banned. Reading one of the stories the choke hold was not banned. It was not illegal. It was against the police departments guidelines. The police officer should be disciplined for violating guidelines.​
My intent was clear. But you chose to score a point instead of acting honestly. Noted.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

dirtpoorchris said:
*lethal force against a non-voilent person
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Garner swatted at the police and resisted arrest. This is a man who had been arrested 30 previous times. After thirty times, you think a person would know that isn't how one is to react. Most likely the reason he resisted is his ass was already in deep doo doo because he was out on bail over a number of criminal charges and selling black market cigarettes was one of them which he was busted by an undercover cop prior to his arrest.

The cop that used the chokehold, an illegal move in New York City, almost immediately had his badge and gun stripped from him for his wrongdoing.

Garner's massive heart attack had several factors. He had asthma, heart disease and obesity weighing in at almost 400 pounds.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
Right. It violated police policy. It was not illegal which was the implication.
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Why isnt it illegal? It sure as hell seems illegal to me. Choking someones neck is lethal force. The guy wasnt a threat so no justification of lethal force. They used lethal force by purposely targeting his neck. That sounds illegal to me even though everyone decided not to pursue the crime. If its ok for someone to use lethal force by choking someone to death for non-violently resisting arrest then why isnt it ok for a cop to shoot a person in the head for non-violent resistance? Because its wrong. As is choking someone.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

dirtpoorchris said:
What the ****? Those didnt contribute to his death at all... A man choking him did. Pretty simple. You squeeze a mans neck too much and he dies.
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That may be true but it was not relevant in this case.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Fenton said:
Here we go....

This is how BS false narratives like " hands up dont shoot " get their beginnings.

He wasn't choked to death. The Coroners report proves that.
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then you didn't read the coroner's report.

The New York Medical Examiner has ruled Garner's death a homicide. The cause of death was "compression of neck (chokehold), compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police."
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Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

vesper said:
Garner swatted at the police and resisted arrest. This is a man who had been arrested 30 previous times. After thirty times, you think a person would know that isn't how one is to react. Most likely the reason he resisted is his ass was already in deep doo doo because he was out on bail over a number of criminal charges and selling black market cigarettes was one of them which he was busted by an undercover cop prior to his arrest.

The cop that used the chokehold, an illegal move in New York City, almost immediately had his badge and gun stripped from him for his wrongdoing.

Garner's massive heart attack had several factors. He had asthma, heart disease and obesity weighing in at almost 400 pounds.
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He never once "swatted" or "smacked" the police. The cops grabbed at his arm and he tried to receed his arm. Dont lie. Its illegal to choke a person who doesnt pose a lethal threat to you.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Sometimes ago I saw a Youtube video (probably in this forum)of a middle age white guy holding some kind of automatic rifle in his hand on the sidewalk of a busy street just loitering around. When the police was called by concerned citizen he was still standing there with his weapon and the officer took a long time and patiently reasoned to him across the street that he needs to put down the weapon and show his ID and permit so that the police could verify.

It took a long time to get this uncooperative guy to finally cooperate. And there was no lethal tactics of any kind used against this guy for resisting police investigation.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
That may be true but it was not relevant in this case.
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you must not realize how much damage a few seconds of cutting off the jugular vein can be.... Its very relevant.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

JumpinJack said:
I see. I understand that. But surely there's an exception to that for unhealthy people. And then there's that disallowed chokehold. And the non-responsiveness to his "I can't breathe, I can't breathe, I can't breathe."

Awful. I support policemen. They have a dangerous job and have to make split second decisions. But this seems different to me. I think maybe they should've just left him alone or given him another ticket. He's not selling ciggies at that particular time. He's being respectful.

I don't know. So sad. It didn't have to happen.
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The disallowed chokehold I'll give you. I think the NYPD should reprimand, punish, or even fire the officer for that. If I were the police chief, I'd fire him.

I don't think a criminal indictment against him is warranted though. It's not like it was just two individuals who got in a fight, and one guy died. That would be manslaughter. This is a case of police officers trying to do their job, and something went wrong in the course of doing that. They should be given more leeway.

As for whether he was selling cigarettes - notice the one officer making the arrest was dressed as a civilian, most likely it was a sting where he went in undercover and "bought" illegal goods from this man, which resulted in the arrest.

I don't think he looked that sickly or unhealthy. To me, he just looks like a very large and powerful man, and he looks very agitated and uncooperative.

The whole thing is very sad though, I agree. Especially over such a stupid and minor crime. And it couldn't have come at a worse time for us as a country.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Is anyone able to explain why no CPR or chest compressions were given?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
Doesn't that frighten you that the Justice Department is intruding into local events? It does me. You are encouraging the growing tyranny. Do you believe you are immune to it?
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Civil Rights violations are a serious matter.
 
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