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No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Never had any of my arrests questioned.

Oh, so now you're a ****ing cop? Well, that explains a lot.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

The criminal record of the person who filmed Garner's death is 100% irrelevant to the question of whether the NYPD used excessive force. Unless he is Magneto and his criminal powers include being able to rearrange video so things are portrayed that didn't ****ing happen, Orta's past and future criminality has no bearing on anything. Guilt by association is a fallacious argument.

Yes it is very relevant. We have Attorney General Eric Holder, Obama and race hustler Al Sharpton who apparently is an advisor to Obama on race related issues, in just a matter of weeks have gone after two Grand Jury decisions as being unjust. They have put a cloud of suspicion over the prosecutors in both cases. They have gone after the cops making claims that white police officers are racists and profilers chipping away at our judicial process.

Obama, Holder, Sharpton and others had a meeting at the White House over Ferguson and Staten Island and they came up with a list of things officers needed to change. Not once was there mentioned what could be done in these high crime areas to change the behavior. Not once did they address the high unemployment rate among blacks or the 70% of black babies that are born into fatherless families and poverty. They did not address the reason there is a noticeable presence of cops in these neighborhoods is directly due to the large volume of criminal activity in these areas. Instead, the "Three Amigos" Holder, Obama, and Sharpton are making it about race and harassment not holding those who break the law to accountability.

Though some claim a Grand Jury can indict a ham sandwich, that isn't true. There is a threshold that has to be met in order to indict an individual of the crime he/she is being accused. And if it is sent on to trial, the burden of proof becomes much greater. If a Grand Jury can't indict, then there is no way a court of law could convict. The video clearly shows the officer using a maneuver the NYPD banned. The Grand Jury was given the task to determine if that was enough evidence to indict the officer of the charges leveled against him. After weighing all the evidence, they found it did not. Evidence you nor any of us are privy to. And as mentioned previously, the officer was stripped of his gun and badge over the incident.

Quite frankly the frenzy over race being instigated by Holder, Obama and Sharpton has led to this lynch mob mentality toward cops and law enforcement. ( especially white cops). And nothing good will come from it.
 
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Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I agree - my point is that I'd rather have a court and a jury, hearing all evidence, determine if they believe the form of arrest was warranted in this case and if not then the officer's contribution to the eventual death would be penalized accordingly. Such a jury would be able to weigh both sides of the argument, in public view, rather than in secret, and it would better serve justice in the eyes of the community.

What, exactly, are you referring to as "the form of arrest"? It is typical in any arrest that the suspect is handcuffed and takien in for booking. This man had been arrested about 30 times before and was quite "tired of it" and decided to resist. What "other side" of cuffing a suspect placed under arrest is there? Should police simply let folks, that choose to resist arrest, go on their merry way?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Still trying? Homicide means the death of one person was caused by another in every definition posted. I wanted you to post that fact which is why I let you think that I was only relying on the legal definition. So with that said, what homicide means is that the police caused his death. You spent 2+ pages trying to argue that this guy's fatness and illness was to blame. If that had been the case, the coroner's report wouldn't have pointed out his death was a homicide. It also doesn't mean he died from an asthma attack and being fat. Do you have anything you'd like to add?

What was his actual cause of death? (no...not 'homicide'...what was the condition whereby he ceased to have cardiovascular function)

The simple fact is that the individual died because he resisted arrest and his morbid obesity and overall miserable health condition could not cash the check his decision wrote. He resisted arrest. He was taken down. He died. What was the cause? If you say 'homicide' it shows how completely inane your argument is. Did he die from being choked to death? Did he die from being beaten to death? Did he die from the officer secretly applying the 5 points of deadly contact? What was the physiological cause of death?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Oh, so now you're a ****ing cop? Well, that explains a lot.
Not now, but previously. And I have been critical of many police actions on here. So 'splains nothing to you.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Not a choke hold. One frame of vid is not proof of a choke hold. But hey, you try the job on for size and see how your attitude changes about the poor misunderstood people.

That is true, policemen's attitude is the culprit here. They know full well they can get away with murder so it is not a worry for them. When was the last time police have been indicted for killing a perp?

Though Americans commonly believe law enforcement’s role in society is to protect them and ensure peace and stability within the community, the sad reality is that police departments are often more focused on enforcing laws, making arrests and issuing citations. As a result of this as well as an increase in militarized policing techniques, Americans are eight times more likely to be killed by a police officer than by a terrorist, estimates a Washington’s Blog report based on official statistical data.Though the U.S. government does not have a database collecting information about the total number of police involved shootings each year, it’s estimated that between 500 and 1,000 Americans are killed by police officers each year. Since 9/11, about 5,000 Americans have been killed by U.S. police officers, which is almost equivalent to the number of U.S. soldiers who have been killed in the line of duty in Iraq.

US Police Have Killed Over 5,000 Civilians Since 9/11
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

You're right, a government agency was conducting a legal action and you stood against it because accountability shouldn't be expected of someone claiming nonsensical ancestral rights. Again, more inconsistency.

So, because I have a different view of each situation you see an issue? Hmm.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Utah has a young black male shortage. :lol:

Is that supposed to be witty?

The problem in the USA is the 0-tolerance fiasco that's been going on for some time now.
You see in the news about your schools where a kid playing with a toy gun (from a toy) gets detention and is treated like a criminal and has to sign a document attesting that he understands the difference between a toy and a gun. It's insane.
Anyway, I'm assuming that such a mentality is pervasive in many police stations.

0 tolerance makes thinking obsolete because everything is treated as either one thing or another.

The USA has a problem with this 0 tolerance in general and it's spilling over into europe. 0 tolerance in this and that, and many areas of life. And this mentality is because of perverse and pervasive leftist thinking, aka "progressives". they're the ones who push this sort of mentality.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Not now, but previously. And I have been critical of many police actions on here. So 'splains nothing to you.

It takes a long time to get the stench of pig off, some former police officers are never able to completely escape the scent.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

So, because I have a different view of each situation you see an issue? Hmm.

No, I have an issue because you display an inconsistent hypocrisy who seems to rely on bull**** arguments when it suits him. :shrug:
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

You of course realize I just tried to lick my elbow to see if you're right.

You're right. On both counts.

Actually, you can lick your elbow. It does require breaking your humerus but it most definitely can be done.;)
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I think its laughable you call this case an 'assault'. So see? We both have cause to :lamo

The police were attempting to arrest the man. He decided he wasnt going to be arrested. They arrested him. They didnt beat him with hose. They didnt taze him. They took him to the ground, held him in place while they cuffed him. Police are going to do that when you decide to resist arrest. Thats just a reality. The remedy...dont resist arrest. Fight charges in court. Hell...people do it all the time.

Yes, just take it and hope justice is served. We should tell that to all assault victims. Don't fight back, just let them assault you and fight it later in court. :lamo Maybe you should review the definition of assault and tell me exactly how this wasn't assault. Go ahead, tell me how the definition of assault doesn't apply to everything that happened here. It should fun reading that pile of bull****. I imagine you will say, but this was lawful, but oh dear, you see, they didn't have probable cause and they did in fact attack and kill the man. You fail.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

What part about resisting arrest don't you get.....
Resisting arrest? Looks like to me his hands were up in the air when they grabbed him, and took him down.

the chokehold is not illegal.
Sorry has shown it was already banned.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Do you always support a police state or only when the cops are attacking minorities for petty offenses?

You have never been to a police state.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Yes, just take it and hope justice is served. We should tell that to all assault victims. Don't fight back, just let them assault you and fight it later in court. :lamo Maybe you should review the definition of assault and tell me exactly how this wasn't assault. Go ahead, tell me how the definition of assault doesn't apply to everything that happened here. It should fun reading that pile of bull****. I imagine you will say, but this was lawful, but oh dear, you see, they didn't have probable cause and they did in fact attack and kill the man. You fail.
:lamo
No...there is a world of difference between being arrested by law enforcement officials and being assaulted. One case is backed by the rule of law and the other is not. But you go ahead and feel free to fight an arrest by a law enforcement officer. That IS what you are advocating...right? (Seems we have already had this discussion). Just remember that video...k?
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

No, I have an issue because you display an inconsistent hypocrisy who seems to rely on bull**** arguments when it suits him. :shrug:
Sorry you feel that way. Learn how to read and maybe you would see it different.
Go back and read the Bundy threads. Read the Ferguson threads. No see this one. Different issues, different opinions. Period. Get over it.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

You have never been to a police state.

Well we're certainly skipping down the path. We need to get some reasonable restraint on the entire system.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

So...your position is he died of 'death by homicide'. :lamo

Now...what did he actually DIE of?

My position is that he died as a result of police action. That makes it a homicide. That you're still trying to claim that it was asthma and his weight that killed him is like saying JFK was killed by blood loss and not Oswald firing a bullet into his head. Not only does it avoid the fact that his asthma and weight were perfectly fine until he came into contact with the police, it paints his death as the result of his health problems and not the fact that police action led to his death. Are you still trying? Move along, VanceMack.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

You said the Officer had no way of knowing the force he used would be lethal. You made the intellectually dishonest claim that the Officer didn't know that the force he used (which was choking) could be lethal.

No, it isn't intellectually dishonest. A choke hold is not usually lethal when applied for more than 5 minutes (4 minutes without oxygen starts brain damage). The choke hold administered to Gardner lasted, and I counted, 13 seconds. That isn't even enough to knock someone out. All of this is clearly in evidence even in the Gardener video since he was still conscious even after the submission hold was released.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

We all saw what happened in this video. Cops approached the man to arrest him for selling untaxed cigarettes. Thats it. Garner decided he was not going to be arrested for selling untaxed cigarettes. He resisted. Cops took him to the ground and cuffed him. Dood was morbidly obese and died...not because he was beaten to death or choked to death but because he made a bad choice.

As for all your other silliness...

:lamo


What untaxed cigarettes, it was a detainment to search for said.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Sorry you feel that way. Learn how to read and maybe you would see it different.
Go back and read the Bundy threads. Read the Ferguson threads. No see this one. Different issues, different opinions. Period. Get over it.

Learn how to read? You supported resisting government action when it suits you. Now you're all in favor of the state crushing people who resist its actions. Again, consistent inconsistency. :)
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

This one?









No. Paragraph (b) doesn't put a lower limit on the number in possession. Here's the paragraph



Bolded part clearly says "any unstamped or unlawfully stamped" so even selling or intending to sell a single one violates (b).

The other paragraphs talk about numbers of cigarettes and pounds of tobacco but I didn't read them too closely since they didn't seem to apply in this case.



single pack, not cigarettes.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Ramsey Orta, 22, is charged with two counts of criminal possession of a weapon. Police said Orta had a previous weapon conviction that prohibited him from possessing a firearm. He is due in court this month on robbery charges stemming from a May arrest and an assault charge from an arrest July 14, according to court records."

Man who recorded video of NYPD chokehold arrested on gun charge | Fox News

Garner nor his friend that filmed the video are/were law abiding citizens.

Who the **** cares if the guy that made the video is a criminal? Does that somehow change what is in the video somehow? A possessing a weapon illegally is hardly something I give two ****s about.
 
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