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No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Personally, I'm troubled by this one far more so than the Ferguson decision. In the Ferguson incident, Michael Brown absolutely contributed to and caused his own demise. In this case, in NYC, we're talking about what is virtually a by-law infraction - selling cigarettes loosely, without tax, and local variety stores and businesses pressure police to stop it. But nobody, in my view, should die because they broke a by-law. Now, this man clearly was resisting arrest - he was surrounded by police and he kept pulling his hands back when the police tried to handcuff him. As with Michael Brown, this man is another "gentle giant". What is it about big black men that they resist arrest to the death?

This is a case, I believe, that should have gone to trial so that the entire NYC community could see and review the evidence and a jury could pass judgement on whether or not manslaughter was an appropriate charge. The community, in this case, should determine whether or not a banned choke hold being used in order to secure an arrest is reasonable force. For me, I don't see why the police didn't simply issue the man a summons to appear in court on the by-law charge.

This one bothers me a lot.

Edit: It seems that the man in this case had 31 prior arrests for similar minor offenses and apparently "knew the drill" - what possessed him to resist this one to the death is puzzling.

Ditto. This incident is different from the Brown incident. 31 prior arrests for similar offenses? I guess that's why they were arresting him instead of ticketing him. He may have not paid for all those prior tickets.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Wow, pure hatred.

It did not seem pure. Impure hate. Absolutely. I am somewhat surprised at the number of people on this board who abhor the concept of justice. A grand Jury, citizens called from the community, reviewed the prosecutor's evidence and determined that there was insufficient evidence to charge anyone with a crime.

If riots occur they must be put down with force. Anyone attempting to set fire to a building should be shot by sniper fire. No fires. Protest actual justice all you want.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Did you see the comment by TheDemSocialist that the choke hold was prohibited and against protocol? That means he was not "doing his job." This incident is totally different from the Brown incident.

But reasonable people want to know all of the evidence before reaching a conclusion. What I read says that Garner told them he couldn't breathe. If that's true, I am flabbergasted they didn't let up on the disallowed choke hold. IF they didn't let up on it.

But in all things, policeman have to weigh actions with consequences with possibles crimes, it seems to me. Selling ciggies with no tax is just not a big deal. Something you'd give a ticket for. Not arrest for. It's not serious like, say, running a red light. You don't want to turn a minor offense into, say, the death of someone. Especially using a choke hold that is against protocol.

I am surprised by the no indictment. But then I haven't seen all the evidence.

Well here's the full video

 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

I didn't see resisting. I did hear him say at least 5 times saying he can't breathe.
I saw him resisting. I am surprised you didn't see it. It was before the first police officer grabbed him.

The grand jury says no crime.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Or he shouldn't have resisted arrest. It didn't look like anyone intended to injure him from the edited video I saw. It looked like they were trying to restrain a very large man who was resisting arrest.

If a person resists arrest (non voilently) then im sorry.... But you gotta work harder for your arrest. Its annoying. But oh well. Does not justify lethality or violence. So it takes a little longer to get his hands behind his back. Well thats what their paycheck is for buddy. When most people slack on their job or take shortcuts it doesnt end up with death. The victim wasnt violent. Non-complaint and not hurting anyone is totally different than trying to hurt someone.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

He wasn't choked to death. The autopsy shows there was no damage to his windpipe.

Yes he was...

The New York Medical Examiner has ruled Garner's death a homicide. The cause of death was "compression of neck (chokehold), compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police."

Pretty sure chokeholds are outlawed by NYC cops.

“I can't breathe!” Garner could be heard screaming. “I can’t breathe!”

But Pantaleo did not let go. He was seen forcing Garner’s face into the concrete.

Eric Garner

N.Y. cop not indicted in chokehold death - CNN.com
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Well here's the full video



Oh, God. Awful. He's too fat to be pushed to the ground like that. He repeatedly tells them he can't breathe. They should've let him up....he was weak at that point.

They should've just walked away and left him alone. Bizarre. I wonder if a store owner in the area paid the cops to get rid of the guy for interfering with their cigarette business. That's how bizarre the police actions seem to me.

This is just an older, fat, black man trying to make a few bucks. He's not knocking over a store or out running red lights or driving drunk.

Geez.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

This cop prolly learned his choke hold in a MMA self defense crash course paid for by average citizens and decided he wanted to play with it and test it out on a giant.

Uggg.. I finally watched teh vid. The cop got him ina blood choke. He probably enacted a stroke by stopping blood to the brain for a few seconds. Hence why the guy keeps saying "I cant breath" after the cop let up a bit. It only takes a 2-3 seconds to effect the brain when your blood gets cut off at the neck. Some people can take it for more. Some people die after just a couple.

Like "the choking game" some kids die after the fact not exactly when the choke is going on.

Its insane that instead of giving the dude cpr or some **** they all just sorta lounge around as he is dying in front of their eyes.
 
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Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

It contributed to his death - unless you're claiming he would have had a coronary and dropped dead right there if the police didn't drag him to the ground and choke him.

And that's what I'm missing in this case.... I want to see a jury look at that evidence and make a ruling. In this particular case, it warranted a jury reviewing what the police did and how they did it.

Really? You want a jury even when a group of citizens determines there is insufficient evidence? Why would you want that? The grand jury is there to prevent government tyranny. Why would you throw that safeguard away?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

So he deserved to be choked to death? Which chokehold is against the law in NY?

Do any of you read before you post? I only wonder as I see NO evidence of it.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

What is a cop supposed to do when a subject says, "**** you, I'm not going”?

Good question. At this stage in the game, if the cop happens to be white, and the wrongdoer is black, for his/her sake it would be best to turn a blind eye to the illegal activity to save their ass from being crucified in the news and sacrificed at the alter of Eric Holder, Obama and Al Sharpton for doing their job. If the criminal is black, don't shoot if he comes at you, just walk/run away and save yourself. If he/she happens to be white, go ahead and shoot and use any means necessary to apprehend the criminal. And for God sake don't use force to subdue a black person if they resist arrest. You don't want to be accused of profiling or police brutality. After all what's the harm in driving without a license, possessing drugs, selling items in the black market and impersonation. (which is what Garner was arrested for and out on bail...his 30th f-ing arrest when he was caught selling black market cigs by an undercover cop!)
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Based only on what I saw in the video, I sure don't understand why the cop wasn't charged with SOMEthing.
AND ... I know the death was declared a homicide from the chokehold BUT also that Garner had asthma, HBP, and was obese which they said also contributed to it.
Maybe that had something to do with the GJ decision.

What would you charge him with? Be specific. The prosecutor would have to be.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Here we go....

This is how BS false narratives like " hands up dont shoot " get their beginnings.

He wasn't choked to death. The Coroners report proves that.

This is NOT fair. You ONLY KNOW THAT because you did some reading before posting.

:)
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

If a person resists arrest (non voilently) then im sorry.... But you gotta work harder for your arrest. Its annoying. But oh well. Does not justify lethality or violence. So it takes a little longer to get his hands behind his back. Well thats what their paycheck is for buddy. When most people slack on their job or take shortcuts it doesnt end up with death. The victim wasnt violent. Non-complaint and not hurting anyone is totally different than trying to hurt someone.

Apparently you've missed **** storms in New York Minutes.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

If a person resists arrest (non voilently) then im sorry.... But you gotta work harder for your arrest. Its annoying. But oh well. Does not justify lethality or violence. So it takes a little longer to get his hands behind his back. Well thats what their paycheck is for buddy. When most people slack on their job or take shortcuts it doesnt end up with death. The victim wasnt violent. Non-complaint and not hurting anyone is totally different than trying to hurt someone.

Doesn't look like they tried to hurt him. Looks like they tried to tackle him and make the arrest, which is what they are supposed to do when someone resists arrest.

It's not their job to negotiate with the guy. If he really didn't do anything wrong, the place to have that debate is at the police station.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Good question. At this stage in the game, if the cop happens to be white, and the wrongdoer is black, for his/her sake it would be best to turn a blind eye to the illegal activity to save their ass from being crucified in the news and sacrificed at the alter of Eric Holder, Obama and Al Sharpton for doing their job. If the criminal is black, don't shoot if he comes at you, just walk/run away and save yourself. If he/she happens to be white, go ahead and shoot and use any means necessary to apprehend the criminal. And for God sake don't use force to subdue a black person if they resist arrest. You don't want to be accused of profiling or police brutality. After all what's the harm in driving without a license, possessing drugs, selling items in the black market and impersonation. (which is what Garner was arrested for and out on bail...his 30th f-ing arrest when he was caught selling black market cigs by an undercover cop!)

*lethal force against a non-voilent person
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I don't know what disturbs me more -- the fact that the cop skates without even being charged, or the sickening implication by several here that Garner basically deserved to die for his token "resistance."

It's also odd that some of the same people eager to defend the officer are the same ones who complain incessantly about the heavy hand of government turning the U.S. into a police state.
I suppose it is possible that someone said he deserved to die. There have been lots of posts.

A grand jury reviewed the evidence and determined that there was insufficient evidence to charge someone with a crime. Are you claiming that the Grand Jury was corrupt?

If we give up grand juries, civilians drawn from among our neighbors, to hear the evidence a prosecutor has then we will be a police state.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Doesn't look like they tried to hurt him. Looks like they tried to tackle him and make the arrest, which is what they are supposed to do when someone resists arrest.

It's not their job to negotiate with the guy. If he really didn't do anything wrong, the place to have that debate is at the police station.

Ok so 4 cops apprehended the guy properly while 1 decided he wanted to be a MMA superstar and dominate a guy as quick as possible with a lethal move. At least in MMA they have referees to stop it when a guy taps out. Here the cops seem to be the referee and death is excused. The 1 cop OBVIOUSLY tried to hurt him... He attacked the most sensitive part of a human with lethal force (you could argue eyes are most sensative but you can survive a gouged eye, if the blood to your brain gets cut off you die) Just because he thought he could do a blood choke and pacify the guy quicker doesnt mean that choking a persons neck should be allowed by cops.

Sure its not their job to negotiate at all times. But its also not their job to use lethal force against a non-violent person. Attacking someones neck is lethal. Thats really the end of the debate right there.
 
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Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

My main concern is the lack of CPR. At least give chest compressions...
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I think the grand jury in Missouri got it right. I think the grand jury in New York got it wrong. The perp died because he couldn't breathe. The coroner said he suffocated. That goes beyond making an arrest and dealing with resistance. The police applied too much force for the situation. It wasn't murder but it was certainly wrong. Unlike the Ferguson event, the perp in New York didn't attack a policeman. But, of course, I wasn't a member of either grand jury so my comments are pure opinion.
I do not usually ask for evidence but can you provide some links to show the coroner said he died because he suffocated?

A morbidly obese man had a heart attack after he resisted arrest. The right response is a tax revolt. He died because he was addicted to cheating the city out of its exorbitant taxes on cigarettes.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Your opinion of the events do not correspond with the video. It's enough for an indictment.

Perhaps you should volunteer to be on a local Grand Jury.
 
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