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Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Officers

Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Can't hardly wait until the videos of cops taking a piss start showing up on YouTube.

I wonder if the ALCU is hiring extra staff in anticipation of all the privacy rights suits they'll be filing.

Something needs to be done but I'm not sure this won't cause more problems than it fixes. We'll see.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

AliHajiSheik said:
If they can put a man on the moon, they can outfit a cop with a coffee dispenser.

If the video becomes public record, could these be the new version of a first person shooter game or perhaps a snuff film. The commercial opportunities are endless :shoot
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That is the legally tricky part of police vest cameras; after we the sheeple are forced to pay millions (or more?) to obtian this "public record" it will be kept strictlly under govenrnment control - just as non-video, police and accident reports are now.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

ttwtt78640 said:
That is the legally tricky part of police vest cameras; after we the sheeple are forced to pay millions (or more?) to obtian this "public record" it will be kept strictlly under govenrnment control - just as non-video, police and accident reports are now.
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If it is juicy, someone like TMZ will probably still be able to get it.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Hamster Buddha said:
On the other hand, how much legs do you think this Michael Brown thing would of had were they to of been leaked, or just put to the press, the chest mounted camera footage of the exchange between Michael Brown and Officer Wilson. For one thing, I doubt we'd have as many protests as we do/did. I mean, he had to resign from doing police work because of this mess. All because of a lie. This would be in place as much to protect the officers from wrongful charges being brought up than anything else.



Look I agree with you, but don't you think the cops will have more protection for themselves when all they have to say to that punk who's screaming racism is, "You see the camera? If you really think that's the case, please, write a letter to the department and you can get your video. Otherwise, I have a job to do."
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I reluctantly support the camera thing.

But I'm quite sure some of the reduction in rates in rialto is folks refraining from making false accusations.

What cameras will do more than anything is cut down on the belligerent bullyboy demeanor that has developed in too many departments. Too many cops want to treat you like a child molester while demanding you be civil under penalty of pain, arrest or death.

This attitude is a big part of the public's attitude towards police.

The downside is no more discretion. No more "catch and release" where they take the kids beer and call it good.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Moon said:
Can't hardly wait until the videos of cops taking a piss start showing up on YouTube.

I wonder if the ALCU is hiring extra staff in anticipation of all the privacy rights suits they'll be filing.

Something needs to be done but I'm not sure this won't cause more problems than it fixes. We'll see.
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That bolded part made me laugh out loud. :mrgreen:
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

"Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Officers"

Of course he does. It isn't his money. Perhaps they would settle for cell phones.
 
Obama loves to spend money we don't have

I like this idea. However, as a few have already posted-their is room for manipulation by police personnel. We will be hearing: "the camera wasn't on when I shot the perp!" or, "I forgot to wear the camera", ect, ect.

My concern is not that this will work, it is why do we have to spend another Quarter of a Billion dollars NOW? Our national debt is now over $18 trillion. It will easily surpass $20 trillion by the time we get a new president. Unsustainability is the word that comes to mind. Why can't we do this gradually so that the economic hit isn't so bad? Do we need to rush this because Obama wants to boost his legacy? (not too hard to do, considering)

Also, I understand the logic behind using cameras. It makes sense. But, I kinda think that the timing is a little insulting to LEOS. It is like: "we coulda indicted Off. Wilson if we had video footage", so, "we will get cameras so this type of injustice will never happen again."
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

gdgyva said:
The White House announced Monday that President Barack Obama will sign an executive order meant to improve training for local law enforcement agencies that receive equipment through federal grant programs. Among the proposed initiatives is a 3-year, $263 million investment package, of which $75 million would go toward covering half the cost of 50,000 officer-mounted cameras -- a technology that has been widely cited as a necessary police reform following the death of Michael Brown, an unarmed black teenager shot and killed by Ferguson, Missouri police officer Darren Wilson in August.

Monday's announcement was greeted by some as a victory for transparency in law enforcement. Yet with almost 630,000 police officers working nationwide, it's not clear how much of an effect even 50,000 cameras would have.

Body cameras have long been a popular proposal among police reform advocates, who say that documenting interactions between officers and civilians can help to eliminate bias and uncertainty regarding alleged misconduct by either party. One frequently cited pilot program in Rialto, California, found that between 2012 and 2013, in the first year of the city using police cameras, the number of complaints filed against officers fell by 88 percent and use of force by officers fell by almost 60 percent.

Despite resistance from some police officials and union members who have called the cameras an unnecessary distraction for officers, departments in major cities like Chicago, New York, Minneapolis and Washington, D.C., as well as smaller cities like Ferguson, have started using cameras, or have at least announced plans to do so.

Obama's $75 million program, which still requires congressional approval, would seek to ease the financial burden of outfitting police officers with cameras by providing a 50 percent funding match to states and localities that decide to participate. (Individual cameras cost between $300 and $400, on top of which are the costs associated with storing and maintaining the data recorded by the devices.) But with no ability to compel local police departments to get behind this move, the administration must simply hope that enough law enforcement volunteers are willing to join the program

Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Officers


my question....especially for those who want this

What is the law regarding anything the officer tapes as to whether or not it can be used as evidence against the person being videoed?

Does the person have to be mirandized before anything they say or do can be used against them?

If not, i love the camera idea. It will stop a lot of criminals from getting away with stuff because of technicalities

And yes, they can be used against officers who probably shouldnt be on the force

seems like a win/win......no more cases thrown out
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Once the criminals and activists realize how many more charges they will face now that police have cameras, I imagine the furor for cameras on all police will die down significantly. How many time do police give folks a break? That'll be on camera now too. There will be more pressure to fine em all.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

clownboy said:
Once the criminals and activists realize how many more charges they will face now that police have cameras, I imagine the furor for cameras on all police will die down significantly. How many time do police give folks a break? That'll be on camera now too. There will be more pressure to fine em all.
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Hi Clownboy!
I understand what you are saying. However, I don't believe there will be any complaints or requests for viewing if the police give folks a break. No disagreement there-the LEO wanted leniency and so did the citizen.
Now...if the LEO is in the habit of letting law-breakers go and somebody screamed "foul" then, maybe the footage will be viewed.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Monte said:
Hi Clownboy!
I understand what you are saying. However, I don't believe there will be any complaints or requests for viewing if the police give folks a break. No disagreement there-the LEO wanted leniency and so did the citizen.
Now...if the LEO is in the habit of letting law-breakers go and somebody screamed "foul" then, maybe the footage will be viewed.
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I'm also thinking that often police don't bring all the charges they could. So the cam footage is viewed because of the main crime and several minor ones get appended. Plus you know, when officers are required to wear cam and be recorded, they will be far less likely to give those breaks.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Hamster Buddha said:
I would add this however; were it to make an impact on how blacks view police, and make them feel more comfortable that the police officer has a camera, then it could do some good. Regardless of the facts though, blacks in this country are mistrustful of the police. And while much of that mistrust stems from a bunch race baiters like Sharpton, it is, however, the sad truth of it. So the question becomes, do you think it will have an impact on how blacks view police? I doubt it. Because you'll still have blacks breaking the law because they come from subpar (compared to whites) economic conditions, and we have a drug law in this country that has been disproportionately looking up blacks.

Although, 263 million dollars is really a drop in the bucket when we're talking about a multi-trillion dollar budget. And if it helps in some civil liberties cases, then it can't hurt.
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According to my search on the internet, a first-rate body camera costs $300-$400. Money shouldn't enter the equation. Time to git 'er done. I agree with your post.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Lutherf said:
It's speculation based on experience. Maybe I'm wrong. Dash cams have been around for a while and haven't been a problem. I don't know that they've really stopped anything bad from happening but the video is there either way. I just don't believe that they're going to solve any problems.

The cops are going to look at the cameras as a way to cover their ass and the social justice vigilantes are going to look at them as a source of propaganda. In neither case is any crime getting reduced nor are community relations getting improved. It's like putting a band-aid on a sucking chest wound. It looks like it should work but it really isn't fixing the underlying problem.
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The stats I have seen show that they reduce complaints about officer misconduct. Dash cams have helped secure convictions because there is proof of the drivers intoxicated state or misbehavior..
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

clownboy said:
Once the criminals and activists realize how many more charges they will face now that police have cameras, I imagine the furor for cameras on all police will die down significantly.
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Activists want criminals caught just as much as everyone else. If cops stop giving breaks based on their racial preference or because the driver is an attractive woman, that will be a good thing.
 
Re: Obama loves to spend money we don't have

Monte said:
I like this idea. However, as a few have already posted-their is room for manipulation by police personnel. We will be hearing: "the camera wasn't on when I shot the perp!" or, "I forgot to wear the camera", ect, ect.

My concern is not that this will work, it is why do we have to spend another Quarter of a Billion dollars NOW? Our national debt is now over $18 trillion. It will easily surpass $20 trillion by the time we get a new president. Unsustainability is the word that comes to mind. Why can't we do this gradually so that the economic hit isn't so bad? Do we need to rush this because Obama wants to boost his legacy? (not too hard to do, considering)

Also, I understand the logic behind using cameras. It makes sense. But, I kinda think that the timing is a little insulting to LEOS. It is like: "we coulda indicted Off. Wilson if we had video footage", so, "we will get cameras so this type of injustice will never happen again."
Click to expand...

The protests weren't about one the one incident, they were about an ongoing pattern. Accountability and truth are good for everyone involved, except criminals and bad cops. They will help exonerate the good cops wrongly accused.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Hard Truth said:
The stats I have seen show that they reduce complaints about officer misconduct. Dash cams have helped secure convictions because there is proof of the drivers intoxicated state or misbehavior..
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I can certainly see where a camera can be a valuable investigative tool but it seems to me that the mandatory use any kind of "always on" recording device would be a 4th amendment issue.

I really, really don't like the idea of a police state and that includes when the police are being unfairly policed.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Hard Truth said:
Activists want criminals caught just as much as everyone else. If cops stop giving breaks based on their racial preference or because the driver is an attractive woman, that will be a good thing.
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I think the point he is making is that right now a police officer has the discretion to charge a suspect for what they think they should, which often times leaves out some minor offenses committed during the other offenses.

With cameras, the DA will take over that discretion and the suspect can be charged with every tiny little offense, which will bury many suspects.

That is a lot of power to give to a DA.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

MaggieD said:
According to my search on the internet, a first-rate body camera costs $300-$400. Money shouldn't enter the equation. Time to git 'er done. I agree with your post.
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The cost doesn't stop there and it's continuous. You have to have a system for collection of feed and offsite, secure storage, AND the techs who can handle it all. Including reviewing officers and extra paid time to review the footage for officers. This means more personnel, more equipment to maintain, more training to do. It's not one and done, but a continuing cost, and the camera's themselves are the least costly of what is necessary.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Moon said:
Can't hardly wait until the videos of cops taking a piss start showing up on YouTube.

I wonder if the ALCU is hiring extra staff in anticipation of all the privacy rights suits they'll be filing.

Something needs to be done but I'm not sure this won't cause more problems than it fixes. We'll see.
Click to expand...

Here's the ACLU position from a report with a headline that summarizes their position:
"Police Body-Mounted Cameras: With Right Policies in Place, a Win For All

....Although we generally take a dim view of the proliferation of surveillance cameras in American life, police on-body cameras are different because of their potential to serve as a check against the abuse of power by police officers. Historically, there was no documentary evidence of most encounters between police officers and the public, and due to the volatile nature of those encounters, this often resulted in radically divergent accounts of incidents. Cameras have the potential to be a win-win, helping protect the public against police misconduct, and at the same time helping protect police against false accusations of abuse.

We're against pervasive government surveillance, but when cameras primarily serve the function of allowing public monitoring of the government instead of the other way around, we generally regard that as a good thing..."

https://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/police-body-mounted-cameras-right-policies-place-win-all
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

By the way, I support Obama's proposal. Many local governments have delayed requiring police body-cams due to the cost. That may be a bogus justification since they should reduce misconduct lawsuits and other problems. By offering federal subsidies for the cost, it makes it harder for local officials to justify delaying their purchase and use.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Mason66 said:
I think the point he is making is that right now a police officer has the discretion to charge a suspect for what they think they should, which often times leaves out some minor offenses committed during the other offenses.

With cameras, the DA will take over that discretion and the suspect can be charged with every tiny little offense, which will bury many suspects.

That is a lot of power to give to a DA.
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It will not be necessary and it is highly impractical to have all of the video content reviewed by a DA or anyone else. The videos will be used to help make criminal cases and to investigate misconduct complaints. People don't complain when they are let off with a warning, so that practice will not be investigated, unless there is a complaint of bias in deciding who is let off easy.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

clownboy said:
The cost doesn't stop there and it's continuous. You have to have a system for collection of feed and offsite, secure storage, AND the techs who can handle it all. Including reviewing officers and extra paid time to review the footage for officers. This means more personnel, more equipment to maintain, more training to do. It's not one and done, but a continuing cost, and the camera's themselves are the least costly of what is necessary.
Click to expand...

The cost isn't insignificant but larger jurisdictions spend millions on settlements, lawsuits and internal discipline procedures due to police misconduct that will be drastically reduced.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Hard Truth said:
It will not be necessary and it is highly impractical to have all of the video content reviewed by a DA or anyone else. The videos will be used to help make criminal cases and to investigate misconduct complaints. People don't complain when they are let off with a warning, so that practice will not be investigated, unless there is a complaint of bias in deciding who is let off easy.
Click to expand...

If the video is used in a case, the DA can see other offenses and can charge on them.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Hard Truth said:
Here's the ACLU position from a report with a headline that summarizes their position:
"Police Body-Mounted Cameras: With Right Policies in Place, a Win For All

....Although we generally take a dim view of the proliferation of surveillance cameras in American life, police on-body cameras are different because of their potential to serve as a check against the abuse of power by police officers. Historically, there was no documentary evidence of most encounters between police officers and the public, and due to the volatile nature of those encounters, this often resulted in radically divergent accounts of incidents. Cameras have the potential to be a win-win, helping protect the public against police misconduct, and at the same time helping protect police against false accusations of abuse.

We're against pervasive government surveillance, but when cameras primarily serve the function of allowing public monitoring of the government instead of the other way around, we generally regard that as a good thing..."

https://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/police-body-mounted-cameras-right-policies-place-win-all
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What nonsense. They're against pervasive government surveillance except for when they support it. Considering the government owns the equipment and the data, I'd guess most incidents that are recorded will be used for the government's benefit and not for accountability of the police. You want to turn that around, then find a way for the citizens to record government activities without harassment. As it is now, not only is the fox guarding the henhouse, the fox owns the henhouse.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Hard Truth said:
The cost isn't insignificant but larger jurisdictions spend millions on settlements, lawsuits and internal discipline procedures due to police misconduct that will be drastically reduced.
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Indeed, but the smaller ones with much, much smaller budgets lose.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Hatuey said:
The main argument against these cameras is that... well... corrupt police departments will be exposed. Even if these departments don't necessarily tone down their use of violence, it's irrelevant. These things can be settled in court and that's what lawsuits are for. The fact that Lutherf tried to pass off a crooked department caught on camera being crooked .... as something negative just made me realize how good of an idea this is.
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That and they end of the bullyboy mindset.

Too many times I've seen situations escalate because the cop was simply being a dick. Talking to people who are being cooperative like the cop caught em dandling a five year old.

This attitude is taught. Dominance takes priority. Not just controlling the situation but what can only be described as bullying.

Im not thrilled with the end of officer discretion. But I'm less thrilled with commonplace misbehavior. Make EVERYBODY be civil, not just the civilian.
 
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