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U.S. shootings by police, prison conditions trouble U.N.....

MMC

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A U.N. anti-torture panel that’s investigating the United States said Friday that it was deeply concerned by what it described as the high incidence of police brutality and shootings _ especially against African-Americans _ in the U.S., was troubled by what it called harsh conditions in many prisons and was worried about the interrogation methods used on detainees. The experts on the United Nations panel called for declassifying evidence of torture by the U.S. – in particular Guantanamo Bay detainees’ accounts – and declassifying and promptly releasing, with minimal redactions, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence’s report about the CIA’s secret detention and interrogation program.

We express concern at the reported current police violence in Chicago, especially against African-American and Latino young people, and deep concern at the frequent and recurrent police shootings or fatal pursuit of unarmed black individuals,” said Alessio Bruni, a member of the panel and a lead investigator in the review of U.S. compliance with the 1984 Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment. The U.S. ratified the 156-member-country convention in 1994. Bruni, an Italian, said the 10-member panel recommended “that all instances of police brutality and excessive use of force by law enforcement officers are investigated promptly, effectively and impartially by an independent mechanism with no institutional or hierarchical connection between the investigators and the alleged perpetrators.”

On Nov. 12-13, nearly 30 senior officials from the U.S. Departments of Defense, Justice and Homeland Security, along with the attorney general of Mississippi, presented evidence and were examined by the U.N. panel. The session was part of the periodic review of U.S. compliance with the anti-torture convention. The U.S. was last reviewed in May 2006.....snip~

Read more here: GENEVA: U.S. shootings by police, prison conditions trouble U.N. | World | Columbus Ledger Enquirer



Say what.
shocked.gif
The UN has the nerve to flap their mouths about US police and what they think is brutality? Still talking about torture with terrorists? What do you think about the UN and their so called experts? Can they say they have a Right to be concerned?

Shouldn't the UN be worried about the major violence coming out of the ME, Africa, and Asia?

What do you think about BO sending nearly 30 Senior Officials to answer to the UN?
 
A U.N. anti-torture panel that’s investigating the United States said Friday that it was deeply concerned by what it described as the high incidence of police brutality and shootings _ especially against African-Americans _ in the U.S., was troubled by what it called harsh conditions in many prisons and was worried about the interrogation methods used on detainees. The experts on the United Nations panel called for declassifying evidence of torture by the U.S. – in particular Guantanamo Bay detainees’ accounts – and declassifying and promptly releasing, with minimal redactions, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence’s report about the CIA’s secret detention and interrogation program.

We express concern at the reported current police violence in Chicago, especially against African-American and Latino young people, and deep concern at the frequent and recurrent police shootings or fatal pursuit of unarmed black individuals,” said Alessio Bruni, a member of the panel and a lead investigator in the review of U.S. compliance with the 1984 Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment. The U.S. ratified the 156-member-country convention in 1994. Bruni, an Italian, said the 10-member panel recommended “that all instances of police brutality and excessive use of force by law enforcement officers are investigated promptly, effectively and impartially by an independent mechanism with no institutional or hierarchical connection between the investigators and the alleged perpetrators.”

On Nov. 12-13, nearly 30 senior officials from the U.S. Departments of Defense, Justice and Homeland Security, along with the attorney general of Mississippi, presented evidence and were examined by the U.N. panel. The session was part of the periodic review of U.S. compliance with the anti-torture convention. The U.S. was last reviewed in May 2006.....snip~

Read more here: GENEVA: U.S. shootings by police, prison conditions trouble U.N. | World | Columbus Ledger Enquirer



Say what.
shocked.gif
The UN has the nerve to flap their mouths about US police and what they think is brutality? Still talking about torture with terrorists? What do you think about the UN and their so called experts? Can they say they have a Right to be concerned?

Shouldn't the UN be worried about the major violence coming out of the ME, Africa, and Asia?

What do you think about BO sending nearly 30 Senior Officials to answer to the UN?

I don't care that they have said something or issued a report lambasting the illegalities performed by Americans who have official authority or carry guns for a living, so long as it does not alter the relationship between the U.N. and the U.S., as in, our sovereignty.

The U.N. addresses most of the bad **** that happens in the world: United Nations News Centre -- they're always condemning something.

And I don't know if the characterization of, "sending nearly 30 Senior Officials to answer to the UN," is correct or not. By appearances, it may certainly look that way, but it could be a diplomatic thing -- downplay and divert attention, as I assume some of those going are some of our official lawyers.
 
The US government is a moral giant in a world of criminals. After all, we are spreading democracy all over the world.

We do no wrong, and the pansies at the UN and elsewhere should zipper their lips.
 
should they sit idly by while the supposed flagship model that other (developing) countries should aspire to is collapsing under excessive authoritarianism?
 
I don't care that they have said something or issued a report lambasting the illegalities performed by Americans who have official authority or carry guns for a living, so long as it does not alter the relationship between the U.N. and the U.S., as in, our sovereignty.

The U.N. addresses most of the bad **** that happens in the world: United Nations News Centre -- they're always condemning something.

And I don't know if the characterization of, "sending nearly 30 Senior Officials to answer to the UN," is correct or not. By appearances, it may certainly look that way, but it could be a diplomatic thing -- downplay and divert attention, as I assume some of those going are some of our official lawyers.


Perhaps the UN shouldn't be hearing from the ACLU and what their take on things are. As they have been known to outright lie about incidents and make up more to a civil rights issue than there is.

It did say Senior Officials.....and an Attorney General.


The committee also said it was concerned about what it called excessive use of force by law enforcement officials against immigrants and LGBT individuals, about racial profiling and about the growing militarization of policing activities.

“This (U.N.) report – along with the voices of Americans protesting around the country this week – is a wake-up call for police who think they can act with impunity,” said Jamil Dakwar, the director of human rights at the American Civil Liberties Union.....snip~

Read more here: GENEVA: U.S. shootings by police, prison conditions trouble U.N. | World | Columbus Ledger Enquirer
 
My words to the UN:

Dont you guys have some tin horn dictators to give support to, and some terrorists to excuse?
 
should they sit idly by while the supposed flagship model that other (developing) countries should aspire to is collapsing under excessive authoritarianism?

No, they have more important business to deal with where I mentioned.....which would include all those Countries and their Police which are even more Para-military then US police. Something they can actually talk about. Rather than guess with US Law Enforcement.

Also they need to get the concept into their head. Terrorists have no Rights!

Moreover.....they need to come up with the names of their so called experts on their panel. Besides The Italian and Chiliean Diplomats.
 
While there are countries worse than the US, my guess is they are countries we don't want to be grouped with. Certainly our "justice" system in the US has issues. There is plenty of documentation out there; but I wanted to mention a book I just read by Bryan Stephenson "Just Mercy: a story of justice and redemption". He covers egregious miscarriages of justice he observed while working in Alabama on death penalty and other cases. In particular, the case of Walter McMillian is hugely troubling. Luckily he didn't get shot by police, but he was thrown on death row for a murder that not only he didn't commit, there was ample evidence supporting him and only trumped up evidence against him.
Walter McMillian - National Registry of Exonerations

We may not like getting scolded by the UN, but that shouldn't blind us to the fact we could be doing better. And that includes training cops on how better to de-escalate situations, rather than going in with guns blazing.

(and remember - there are professions more deadly than policing; any google search will tell you that.)
 
Oh horse****! The shooting by police "troubles the UN?" Yeah, I can imagine that they spend lots of sleepless nights because of it! I wonder if they worry about the shootings that go on every day in Chicago - Obama's home town - too! And they worry about prison conditions, too? WTH? If criminals didn't break the law, they wouldn't be in prison!

We do not report to the UN! We have a Constitution that this country was founded on, and we are a nation of laws that apply here. The UN might do well to mind their own affairs and involve themselves in the trouble spots elsewhere in the world - we can and will handle our own problems! Just because BO and his DOJ did not like the results of the Ferguson decision is their problem - our laws were followed! :2mad:
 
The US government is a moral giant in a world of criminals. After all, we are spreading democracy all over the world.

We do no wrong, and the pansies at the UN and elsewhere should zipper their lips.

:doh

.............
 
Oh horse****! The shooting by police "troubles the UN?" Yeah, I can imagine that they spend lots of sleepless nights because of it! I wonder if they worry about the shootings that go on every day in Chicago - Obama's home town - too! And they worry about prison conditions, too? WTH? If criminals didn't break the law, they wouldn't be in prison!

We do not report to the UN! We have a Constitution that this country was founded on, and we are a nation of laws that apply here. The UN might do well to mind their own affairs and involve themselves in the trouble spots elsewhere in the world - we can and will handle our own problems! Just because BO and his DOJ did not like the results of the Ferguson decision is their problem - our laws were followed! :2mad:



Yep, the majority of US Law Enforcement just doesn't act with impunity. That ACLU mope needs to get that thru his thick head.
 
My words to the UN:

Dont you guys have some tin horn dictators to give support to, and some terrorists to excuse?

Like Marcos, Noriega, Pinochet, Pahlavi? The US has never shied away from tin horn dictator support when it suited their political and/or economic agenda.

Just because the UN, that bastion of 'I didn't think it could be stacked that high', says something, it is not automatically wrong. The militarization of police in the US should be a concern.

I really don't believe people should be ok with what is almost a prerequisite of a dictatorship.

EDIT

HD: my sarcasm meter doesn't go to 11.
 
A U.N. anti-torture panel that’s investigating the United States said Friday that it was deeply concerned by what it described as the high incidence of police brutality and shootings _ especially against African-Americans _ in the U.S., was troubled by what it called harsh conditions in many prisons and was worried about the interrogation methods used on detainees. The experts on the United Nations panel called for declassifying evidence of torture by the U.S. – in particular Guantanamo Bay detainees’ accounts – and declassifying and promptly releasing, with minimal redactions, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence’s report about the CIA’s secret detention and interrogation program.

Hey U.N. I wonder if you can see my extended middle finger all the way from New York.
 
Hey U.N. I wonder if you can see my extended middle finger all the way from New York.

Mornin' FMW. :2wave: I did notice it said their Anti Torture panel too.

I think someone might want to check into how many terrorists they were sticking up for.
 
Hey U.N. I wonder if you can see my extended middle finger all the way from New York.

Greetings, fmw. :2wave:

All of the millions of extended middle fingers across this country just has to make a difference in the prevailing wind patterns soon! I wonder how the Weather Channel will explain the mystery? :mrgreen:
 
Greetings, fmw. :2wave:

All of the millions of extended middle fingers across this country just has to make a difference in the prevailing wind patterns soon! I wonder how the Weather Channel will explain the mystery? :mrgreen:


I did notice they said it was out of Geneva and not New York.....Imagine that. :lol:
 
Yep, the majority of US Law Enforcement just doesn't act with impunity. .

Really? Ok, maybe not the majority - but law enforcement rarely gets called on their abuses of power, even when blatant. See my earlier post or look up Walter McMillian if you are curious.

How many police officers are ever sanctioned for killing civilians? very few.

You may not like the UN pointing it out. But that shouldn't make you ignore the abuses that do happen.
 
Perhaps the UN shouldn't be hearing from the ACLU and what their take on things are. As they have been known to outright lie about incidents and make up more to a civil rights issue than there is.

It did say Senior Officials.....and an Attorney General.


The committee also said it was concerned about what it called excessive use of force by law enforcement officials against immigrants and LGBT individuals, about racial profiling and about the growing militarization of policing activities.

“This (U.N.) report – along with the voices of Americans protesting around the country this week – is a wake-up call for police who think they can act with impunity,” said Jamil Dakwar, the director of human rights at the American Civil Liberties Union.....snip~

Read more here: GENEVA: U.S. shootings by police, prison conditions trouble U.N. | World | Columbus Ledger Enquirer

I'm worried about that stuff too, man, which was more-or-less my point: our police are militarized, do use excessive force, do spy on people, do seize property and possessions willy nilly and minorities are targeted far more excessively than people that share the same skin color that I do. Perhaps, instead of chastising the U.N. for pointing out the faults we know we have here, we should be speaking truth to power, that is, our governments -- federal, state and local. Look, I'm no fanboy of the U.N., but I'm not going to say that they're wrong -- **** is ****ed up here, man. You know?
 
Shouldn't the UN be worried about the major violence coming out of the ME, Africa, and Asia?

They are and they have made similar reports on those places and countries. It is not the fault of the UN that the American media dont report it is it now?

Now tell me this, why should any nation who is promoting democracy and the rule of law not be put under the same scrutiny as all other nations to see if they actually themselves live up to the ideals that they seem to want to promote and force on the rest of the world?

Ignoring the issues and going all nationalistic when someone dares point out the big elephant in the room ... well that wont help one bit in solving what is clearly a problem.
 
Really? Ok, maybe not the majority - but law enforcement rarely gets called on their abuses of power, even when blatant. See my earlier post or look up Walter McMillian if you are curious.

How many police officers are ever sanctioned for killing civilians? very few.

You may not like the UN pointing it out. But that shouldn't make you ignore the abuses that do happen.



Who said I ignored any abuses? Human error is when and where? Also really I am not one that looks to stick up for Law Enforcement anytime they cross a line.

I live in Chicago.....I have known cops that have never pulled their gun. I also know cops who talk about living with the issue of shooting another being for the rest of their lives. Whether killing them or just wounding them. Even when justified.

But for the UN to consider us to be any sort of major problem with this for the Grand Stage. Is pathetic.

How many Urban cities with Cops that are minorities that step over the line? Or are quick to pull that pistol? That's here in the US?
 
Say what.
shocked.gif
The UN has the nerve to flap their mouths about US police and what they think is brutality? Still talking about torture with terrorists? What do you think about the UN and their so called experts? Can they say they have a Right to be concerned?

Shouldn't the UN be worried about the major violence coming out of the ME, Africa, and Asia?

What do you think about BO sending nearly 30 Senior Officials to answer to the UN?

Um... you do realize that any objective review of the US prison population, our justice system, how we craft law, the militarization of our police and the number of times lethal force is used, the rise of the security surveillance state well on our way to police state mentality should raise plenty of concerns.

Personally I think we need to take off the roses and sunshine view of our society and start to talk about that fact, not fiction, that we lead the planet of all reporting nations (including those like Russia, China, Iran, Iraq, Syria, the rest of the Middle East, most African nations including Egypt and Libya, etc.) in total incarceration rate and length of time served per crime committed. We have an obvious problem with disparity by race in the incarceration rate in comparison to actual drug use (go check with the AMA if you do not believe me.) We do in fact militarize our police and use various forms of surveillance against everyone in this nation in very questionalbe Constitutional ways. And of course no one thinks it exists, until they speak and confirm it, that we tend to profile and use force accordingly. Socially we have a series of concerns which end up with real fiscal costs and economic consequence.

By many sources the US no longer is in the lead when it comes to Freedom indexes and at the same time are in fact are quite violent when compared to some of these other nations. We have several cities in the US that rank high globally in violent crime. Go look up Chicago or Detroit if you do not believe me.

Now I'll agree, I find the UN to be largely ineffective and useless. We should have jumped out of that mess a long way back. Nothing but a bureaucratic nightmare made up of dubious characters. That said, the UN may be right on this one more than we are willing to admit.
 
Last edited:
Um... you do realize that any objective review of the US prison population, our justice system, how we craft law, the militarization of our police and the number of times lethal force is used, the rise of the security surveillance state well on our way to police state mentality should raise plenty of concerns.

Personally I think we need to take off the roses and sunshine view of our society and start to talk about that fact, not fiction, that we lead the planet of all reporting nations (including those like Russia, China, Iran, Iraq, Syria, the rest of the Middle East, most African nations including Egypt and Libya, etc.) in total incarceration rate and length of time served per crime committed. We have an obvious problem with disparity by race in the incarceration rate in comparison to actual drug use (go check with the AMA if you do not believe me.) We do in fact militarize our police and use various forms of surveillance against everyone in this nation in very questionalbe Constitutional ways. And of course no one thinks it exists, until they speak and confirm it, that we tend to profile and use force accordingly. Socially we have a series of concerns which end up with real fiscal costs and economic consequence.

By many sources the US no longer is in the lead when it comes to Freedom indexes and at the same time are in fact are quite violent when compared to some of these other nations. We have several cities in the US that rank high globally in violent crime. Go look up Chicago or Detroit if you do not believe me.

Now I'll agree, I find the UN to be largely ineffective and useless. We should have jumped out of that mess a long way back. Nothing but a bureaucratic nightmare made up of dubious characters. That said, the UN may be right on this one more than we are willing to admit.



Yeah tell me about it.....I think with my Location. I understand what Americans and Chicagoans have as a concern. But it is like I stated. The majority of US Law Enforcement doesn't just act with Impunity.
 
Um... you do realize that any objective review of the US prison population, our justice system, how we craft law, the militarization of our police and the number of times lethal force is used, the rise of the security surveillance state well on our way to police state mentality should raise plenty of concerns.

Personally I think we need to take off the roses and sunshine view of our society and start to talk about that fact, not fiction, that we lead the planet of all reporting nations (including those like Russia, China, Iran, Iraq, Syria, the rest of the Middle East, most African nations including Egypt and Libya, etc.) in total incarceration rate and length of time served per crime committed. We have an obvious problem with disparity by race in the incarceration rate in comparison to actual drug use (go check with the AMA if you do not believe me.) We do in fact militarize our police and use various forms of surveillance against everyone in this nation in very questionalbe Constitutional ways. And of course no one thinks it exists, until they speak and confirm it, that we tend to profile and use force accordingly. Socially we have a series of concerns which end up with real fiscal costs and economic consequence.

By many sources the US no longer is in the lead when it comes to Freedom indexes and at the same time are in fact are quite violent when compared to some of these other nations. We have several cities in the US that rank high globally in violent crime. Go look up Chicago or Detroit if you do not believe me.

Now I'll agree, I find the UN to be largely ineffective and useless. We should have jumped out of that mess a long way back. Nothing but a bureaucratic nightmare made up of dubious characters. That said, the UN may be right on this one more than we are willing to admit.

Greetings, Orphan Slug. :2wave:

IMO, the UN didn't decide on their own to make a statement about this - it was brought to them by the current administration. I believe it was politically driven by this administration's Justice Department because of the Ferguson decision, which was apparently a disappointment to them, but we have a Constitution that spells out our rights, and a legal system to ensure that the law is followed. I wouldn't give either of them up no matter what the UN thinks about anything. Let them concern themselves with countries that don't have a rule of law in place, and we'll handle our country's affairs without their interference.
 
Greetings, Orphan Slug. :2wave:

IMO, the UN didn't decide on their own to make a statement about this - it was brought to them by the current administration. I believe it was politically driven by this administration's Justice Department because of the Ferguson decision, which was apparently a disappointment to them, but we have a Constitution that spells out our rights, and a legal system to ensure that the law is followed. I wouldn't give either of them up no matter what the UN thinks about anything. Let them concern themselves with countries that don't have a rule of law in place, and we'll handle our country's affairs without their interference.

Good afternoon to you!

My issue with that is the one way street attitude it assumes. Ideologically as a Libertarian I would agree with you that we should not be in any other nation's internal matters any more than they should be involved in ours. But, you cannot tell me that the US and the UN do not go running around interfering in other nations anyway. No matter if those other nations have a rule of law in place or not.

The harsh truth here is no matter if the UN did this on their own accord or the current administration appealed to the UN to do so... they are right about our concerns. In some ways I agree with you that we have a mess in our own backyard to clean up, but we are not doing so now are we? Sociologically and economically things continue to slowly deteriorate because of our attitudes on handling our own populace in these ways.

Something has to give here. And if it take a useless UN report to tell us to look at our own problems it may not be the worst thing given that everything we are saying about these stats is in fact accurate. So even if the UN gets to accidentally be right, we should be looking at these things.
 
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