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Increased Pay for working Thanksgiving

radcen said:
I used to be an audiophile...
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You aren't embarrised to admit that? Your probably on a list on the internet now.

Did you go to jail for that, or were you just never caught?
 
Declan said:
Element TV's are made in America and while they mostly contain foreign made parts, they have indicated that they are actively looking for domestic parts suppliers. They just need more companies to open shop.
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no matter where you assemble/etc, you can't change elemental abundance in the earth's crust.
 
paddymcdougall said:
That is very cool. I wish them success!
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Hopefully they will. Ironically, it was Walmart that has helped them succeed as part of their efforts to place more American made goods on its shelves. They could not compete with Mexican TV companies if Walmart was just looking for the lowest cost (i.e. highest profit margin) suppliers.
 
SlevinKelevra said:
no matter where you assemble/etc, you can't change elemental abundance in the earth's crust.
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And by shortening the distance between the suppliers and the sellers reduces the consumption of that elemental abundance in the earth's crust by reducing transportation needs, not that I see your point as it relates to my post.
 
radcen said:
I used to be an audiophile back in my younger days. (Now, I couldn't care less) Anyway, back in the day (early 90s, IIRC) it was literally impossible to purchase an American-made cassette deck. Granted, CDs were all the rage, and there were limited options of American-made CD players available... some with tubes... cassettes weren't wholly irrelevant yet and many serious audio people still wanted quality decks. Yet, if you wanted to support America you were out of luck.

I do not know the current status of the stereo field as I no longer keep up with it.
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iSomething or the other. You don't even need a stereo. They are putting docking ports in the walls of apartments/houses now. Just hook your iPod up and you have stereo.
 
Declan said:
And by shortening the distance between the suppliers and the sellers reduces the consumption of that elemental abundance in the earth's crust by reducing transportation needs, not that I see your point as it relates to my post.
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that many of the rare earth elements used in modern electronics (circuit boards) do not exist in an amount in the USA to sustain manufacturing of
the aforementioned devices. you can pay someone to run the screwdriver here, you can mine the iron to make the steel in the screwdriver here...
at the end of the day, the manufacture and purchase of the TV supports a foreign nation (and possible enemy state).
 
SlevinKelevra said:
that many of the rare earth elements used in modern electronics (circuit boards) do not exist in an amount in the USA to sustain manufacturing of
the aforementioned devices. you can pay someone to run the screwdriver here, you can mine the iron to make the steel in the screwdriver here...
at the end of the day, the manufacture and purchase of the TV supports a foreign nation (and possible enemy state).
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To address these positions in reverse order:

1) Just because China is the enemy of many corporate interests and because many corporations have a vested interest in making China an enemy, I have no qualms with China or its people, so I don't care; and

2) Society existed before the electric screwdriver and will exist after it. Consuming rare earths is of no consequence. We can go back to having slower computers. There is a greater social cost in even maintaining the current generation of technology than in stepping back to earlier stages. Technology and agriculture are the two most common areas where the productivity paradox is most evident (albeit it manifests itself differently between the two fields).
 
imagep said:
It's not just the athletes, but also the student trainers, the mascots, the cheerleaders, and the band members.

That's part of the reason my kid dropped college marching band. And the New Years bowl games are even worse, one year my kid had to return to college on Christmas day, ride a bus to Florida, and spend the next week parading around for the bowl game, only to return to the college on Jan second (still a week before school started).
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Paid trip to Florida in the middle of winter with a bunch of friends. If that's the worst thing they experience, why the hell wasn't I in marching band in college?
 
CycloneWanderer said:
... If that's the worst thing they experience, why the hell wasn't I in marching band in college?
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3AM call time, no alcohol allowed, being herded around like cattle. Those were the real issues.
 
imagep said:
3AM call time, no alcohol allowed, being herded around like cattle. Those were the real issues.
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...boohoo? I knew bandies who profitted a solid $80-$100 each from a single marching band trip simply by eating cheap and pocketing the extra food stipend they recieved. Bought them some nice alcohol to party with the first couple weeks of the spring semester.
 
radcen said:
The rest of my post... you know, the part you snipped out... doesn't mention critical positions that simply cannot be closed for the day, precisely for that reason. That's a given.

I have worked holidays, too, and I personally didn't really care. My sole point is that indignation is hollow if the indignant person has ever done any activity that required non-critical people to work on a holiday.
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I agree with your point about people who don't want the stores open should do no shopping at all on that day - including don't gas the car, don't run to the store for a last minute item, don't pick up a bottle of wine on the way over to someone's house, etc.

My personal preference is usually to avoid shopping that day - to have a meal at our house or a friend's house, watch some TV, relax. (Although as I admitted, I have eaten out at times, or wanted to go to a movie or bowling or something.)

But everyone is different; and if there are people who want to shop that day, and there are store owners who want to open the stores - who am I to say they shouldn't be able to connect? Not everyone has a family in town that they are celebrating with. Not everyone has the traditions that I have.

So while I don't like stores opening earlier, I realize this is a personal thing, and getting indignant is, as you say, a bit hypocritical on my part and also means I'm forcing my values on others.

But - I do think the idea that stores pay more for people to come in on a national holiday is a good idea; and workers should be able to say "no thanks, I'm not working that day" without penalty. I bet there are a lot of workers that would HAPPILY move their family celebration to another day for sufficient pay!

(and, as you said, of course this is only for non-essential services; obviously, hospitals, ERs, cops, fire fighters, etc will need to have workers in.)

Do we need a law for triple pay on holidays? that would be nice. We have laws about overtime pay; each worker doesn't have to negotiate that separately. Having a law would help those workers who don't feel comfortable asking for more pay from their managers (not everyone is as courageous as US Conservative on this).
 
paddymcdougall said:
I agree with your point about people who don't want the stores open should do no shopping at all on that day - including don't gas the car, don't run to the store for a last minute item, don't pick up a bottle of wine on the way over to someone's house, etc.

My personal preference is usually to avoid shopping that day - to have a meal at our house or a friend's house, watch some TV, relax. (Although as I admitted, I have eaten out at times, or wanted to go to a movie or bowling or something.)

But everyone is different; and if there are people who want to shop that day, and there are store owners who want to open the stores - who am I to say they shouldn't be able to connect? Not everyone has a family in town that they are celebrating with. Not everyone has the traditions that I have.

So while I don't like stores opening earlier, I realize this is a personal thing, and getting indignant is, as you say, a bit hypocritical on my part and also means I'm forcing my values on others.

But - I do think the idea that stores pay more for people to come in on a national holiday is a good idea; and workers should be able to say "no thanks, I'm not working that day" without penalty. I bet there are a lot of workers that would HAPPILY move their family celebration to another day for sufficient pay!

(and, as you said, of course this is only for non-essential services; obviously, hospitals, ERs, cops, fire fighters, etc will need to have workers in.)

Do we need a law for triple pay on holidays? that would be nice. We have laws about overtime pay; each worker doesn't have to negotiate that separately. Having a law would help those workers who don't feel comfortable asking for more pay from their managers (not everyone is as courageous as US Conservative on this).
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Excellent post. Thank you for taking the time to write it.

I have no issue with extra pay for the day, but I don't think it should be government mandated at all.

Only thing I would add to your post is that in addition to some people having no family and being fine with working, there are some people who cannot afford to take a day off and truly need the money. They have bills to pay, and so on. (Not everyone would get holiday pay, especially lower level retail people.)

As for me, I don't get indignant because, for the most part, I don't care one way or another. I'm just tired of people complaining then talk about their plans to see a movie that day. I have in my lifetime gone to eat, or to a movie, on a holiday. It's rare for me, though. Not because I have some point to make, but simply because I absolutely hate large crowds.
 
StillBallin75 said:
This year I'll be working on both Thanksgiving and Black Friday and I get time and a half, which is fine but nothing to write home about.

But the thing is, neither consumers or retailers really give a **** about the retail workers in this case. At least not as much as they care about money and sales. It really is a race to the bottom but whatever, it is what it is I guess. Two years ago we opened at midnight, last year we opened at 6pm. This year we are open at 5pm and I have to be at work at 3pm on Thursday. At least this year we actually aren't open overnight, which is a plus.
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You work at Target.



My condolences.
 
KevinKohler said:
But generate more and worse problems than this.
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before we have a conversation, are you for or against increased pay for working on Thanksgiving?
 
radcen said:
Excellent post. Thank you for taking the time to write it.

I have no issue with extra pay for the day, but I don't think it should be government mandated at all.

Only thing I would add to your post is that in addition to some people having no family and being fine with working, there are some people who cannot afford to take a day off and truly need the money. They have bills to pay, and so on. (Not everyone would get holiday pay, especially lower level retail people.)

As for me, I don't get indignant because, for the most part, I don't care one way or another. I'm just tired of people complaining then talk about their plans to see a movie that day. I have in my lifetime gone to eat, or to a movie, on a holiday. It's rare for me, though. Not because I have some point to make, but simply because I absolutely hate large crowds.
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Totally agree, especially with the bolded parts!

(note to others: I added the bolding)
 
Helix said:
before we have a conversation, are you for or against increased pay for working on Thanksgiving?
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I am for not forcing people to work that day as a requirement of employment.
 
KevinKohler said:
I am for not forcing people to work that day as a requirement of employment.
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are you for protecting them from the repercussions that may come if they refuse to work that day when asked?
 
Helix said:
are you for protecting them from the repercussions that may come if they refuse to work that day when asked?
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Even with legal protections, there is nothing to stop an employer from firing a worker who is uncooperative. Maybe they just wait a few weeks and fire them for some bogus reason.

I've have been fired twice in my life. Both times it was at a company where my supervisor became upset when I refused to work on a particular weekend because I was a military reservist and had drill that weekend. Neither time was I fired for not working that weekend, but both times I was told that I didn't have the "aptitude" required for the job. Just one of those things that "makes you go hmmm".
 
None of the government's business.

If the worker's do not like the terms of their employment - quit.
 
Helix said:
are you for protecting them from the repercussions that may come if they refuse to work that day when asked?
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Obviously, else it would be forced.
 
imagep said:
Even with legal protections, there is nothing to stop an employer from firing a worker who is uncooperative. Maybe they just wait a few weeks and fire them for some bogus reason.

I've have been fired twice in my life. Both times it was at a company where my supervisor became upset when I refused to work on a particular weekend because I was a military reservist and had drill that weekend. Neither time was I fired for not working that weekend, but both times I was told that I didn't have the "aptitude" required for the job. Just one of those things that "makes you go hmmm".
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Jeez - your boss was a dick.

I have been fired just once - for sleeping in and when I was reminded that I would be late for work if I did not get up - I chose to roll over and go back to sleep.

Needless to say, I am NOT a model employee (I HATE conformity) - that is why I have run my own businesses (not at the same time) since I was 23.
 
DA60 said:
None of the government's business.

If the worker's do not like the terms of their employment - quit.
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Luckily, others thought differently and thus we have overtime pay, 40 hour week, protections against child labor, OSHA regulations, etc.

Quitting isn't always an option.
 
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