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Increased Pay for working Thanksgiving

Bodhisattva said:
As a waiter and bartender in fine dining I worked ALL holiday, especially Easter, Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years Eve.

GREAT money...
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So this is why I'm conflicted. There have been Thanksgivings where I've gone out to dinner; thanks to those of you who work that day! there are also holidays where going to the mall for movie is what I would love to do - thank goodness movie theaters are usually open!

But of course, I'm depriving the workers of enjoying that time with their families (assuming they aren't Jehovah's Witnesses who don't observe the holidays)

So there are people who don't want to have a day shut up with their families - they want to go out to movies, or bowling, or shopping, or whatever. And if a store is willing to accommodate them, well that's their choice. And of course restaurants, hospitals, police officers, security guards, etc, don't have a choice. There are many people who have to work holidays; but hopefully they knew that going into that occupation.

But for stores that have not been open on holidays in the past but who have decided to open on them - their employees should be able to refuse to work those days without penalty. If stores really need them, they can pay them enough to come in.

I personally will not shop on Black Friday or Black Thursday or whatever. I hate crowds. But like I said -going out to dinner or seeing a movie - I have done that in the past.

So - Conflict is Me....
 
Hamster Buddha said:
At first when I saw the title, I thought it was weird because you already get paid at overtime rates on working Black Friday. But triple? No one at no time is worth triple what you pay them.
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If not, then the stores won't open. If the profits are enough, the stores will pay triple.
 
Henrin said:
Then it's not really equal ownership.
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Nowhere did I say that I thought ownership should be equal among all workers. I said the people should earn it and not be just given it.
 
Helix said:
that's a cool tough guy story, but if you treat your workers badly enough, it usually ends up biting you in the ass.
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Sure it does, but that wasn't really my point. Workers going on strike is technically a breach of contract since they agreed to provide their labor to the employer. I don't think many people would say breach of contract is not a good reason to fire someone.
 
Henrin said:
Sure it does, but that wasn't really my point. Workers going on strike is technically a breach of contract since they agreed to provide their labor to the employer. I don't think many people would say breach of contract is not a good reason to fire someone.
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says a person who doesn't labor for almost nothing in a company town. there's a reason for that. enjoy your two day weekends.
 
Helix said:
says a person who doesn't labor for almost nothing in a company town. there's a reason for that. enjoy your two day weekends.
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How many times did that happen?

I'm sorry, but what you support is not only blackmail, but also breach of contract. Both of which are grounds to fire someone, imho.
 
So here's something for you all to comment on:

My local dump is open Thurs. thru Mon (closed Tues/Wed). Due to my rural location, many of us take trash/recycling to the dump rather than having it picked up.

The dump workers, as far as I know, don't get paid extra for weekends.

They have recently submitted a proposal to the county that the dump be open from Tues thru Sat so that workers get Sunday off for time with their families, religious services, etc.

I happen to be against this, because since I work Mon thru Fri, I can only get there on the weekends and, due to other commitments, that often means going on a Sunday.

I feel they knew the days when they took the jobs; they are decent-paying jobs for our area; and they need to enjoy the fact that their days off during the week means they could volunteer with their kids' schools or run errands and doctor's appts without missing work.

I know I may be self-serving on this, but there are many businesses in our area where people have to work weekends (hotels, restaurants, shops, etc)

I have (on a local message board) suggested they set up 4/10s - i.e. open 10 hours a day, but workers work 4 days in a row instead of 5. Then half could get Saturdays off, half could get Sundays off.

Am I just insensitive to think there is nothing sacred about having one of the weekend days off?
 
radcen said:
How many people who complain about others working on Holidays do something... anything... that requires other people to work?
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Some people have to work during a holiday, that's just how it goes. Heck, I've worked on holidays.

However, ideally we will should keep it to a minimum, and to people who have to work. Doctors, nurses, police, 911 operators, nuclear power plant operators, and the like.

Yes, there are some less-than-critical people who still wind up working. That doesn't mean we should encourage people to treat a holiday where we give thanks as another few hours to stampede the local Walmart and buy a bunch of crap that no one needs.

I.e. it's not just about "people working." It's about turning a holiday that is about family, and appreciating one's good fortune in life, into another excuse to shop.
 
paddymcdougall said:
So this is why I'm conflicted. There have been Thanksgivings where I've gone out to dinner; thanks to those of you who work that day! there are also holidays where going to the mall for movie is what I would love to do - thank goodness movie theaters are usually open!

But of course, I'm depriving the workers of enjoying that time with their families (assuming they aren't Jehovah's Witnesses who don't observe the holidays)

So there are people who don't want to have a day shut up with their families - they want to go out to movies, or bowling, or shopping, or whatever. And if a store is willing to accommodate them, well that's their choice. And of course restaurants, hospitals, police officers, security guards, etc, don't have a choice. There are many people who have to work holidays; but hopefully they knew that going into that occupation.

But for stores that have not been open on holidays in the past but who have decided to open on them - their employees should be able to refuse to work those days without penalty. If stores really need them, they can pay them enough to come in.

I personally will not shop on Black Friday or Black Thursday or whatever. I hate crowds. But like I said -going out to dinner or seeing a movie - I have done that in the past.

So - Conflict is Me....
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I knew it going in and that was fine... I agree that most shops should not be open on those days though. As a teacher now though? I get everything off. :lol:
 
Visbek said:
Some people have to work during a holiday, that's just how it goes. Heck, I've worked on holidays.

However, ideally we will should keep it to a minimum, and to people who have to work. Doctors, nurses, police, 911 operators, nuclear power plant operators, and the like.

Yes, there are some less-than-critical people who still wind up working. That doesn't mean we should encourage people to treat a holiday where we give thanks as another few hours to stampede the local Walmart and buy a bunch of crap that no one needs.

I.e. it's not just about "people working." It's about turning a holiday that is about family, and appreciating one's good fortune in life, into another excuse to shop.
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The rest of my post... you know, the part you snipped out... doesn't mention critical positions that simply cannot be closed for the day, precisely for that reason. That's a given.

I have worked holidays, too, and I personally didn't really care. My sole point is that indignation is hollow if the indignant person has ever done any activity that required non-critical people to work on a holiday.
 
Declan said:
That is part of it, but you left out the part about Americans being willing to buy cheaper goods over more expensive goods.
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If all the TV manufactures left for China and other countries then you do not have a choice but to buy foreign made TV.
 
Henrin said:
How many times did that happen?

I'm sorry, but what you support is not only blackmail, but also breach of contract. Both of which are grounds to fire someone, imho.
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Happened all the time in the rural west until unionization
 
jamesrage said:
If all the TV manufactures left for China and other countries then you do not have a choice but to buy foreign made TV.
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Element Televisions are made in the US and I own 3 of them. Lenovo, while a Chinese owned company, makes laptops in the US and I own one of them. None of that changes that is not why TV's stopped being made in the US. Japan offered better TV's at a lower price so people bought their Sony over a Curtis Mathis.
 
Declan said:
Element Televisions are made in the US and I own 3 of them. Lenovo, while a Chinese owned company, makes laptops in the US and I own one of them. None of that changes that is not why TV's stopped being made in the US. Japan offered better TV's at a lower price so people bought their Sony over a Curtis Mathis.
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What do you mean when you say Element TVs are made in America? Do you mean all the parts are made and assembled here in the US? All or most of the parts are made outside the US and assembled here in the US? Made in some American territory where they hire workers dirt cheap but since it is made on American territory they can still call it American made?
 
KevinKohler said:
Ohio lawmakers propose triple Thanksgiving Day pay


Heard about this on NPR this morning. Not sure where I stand, thought, to be honest, I AM leaning towards actions like this...I'm just disgusted that such action is even needed.

Basically, more and more retailers are deciding to be open for Thanksgiving, a family holiday. I perceive this as a move by the government to discourage such actions, by increasing the cost. Thing is, if americans were really concerned about making this a family holiday...they wouldn't ****ing SHOP on thanksgiving. Simple solution, right? If no one shops on this day, stores won't feel compelled to open to capture those sales. They are saying that enough major retailers do this, they will pressure the mom and pops to follow suit. Now, I'm no economic genius, but I fail to see how this works? So, Kmart is open on thanksgiving, and this somehow forces a store that, prior to Kmart's position, ACCEPTED no sales on this day. But now that Kmart is making money on this day...all of a sudden the mom and pop will be losing money for not making money on that day? Seems like kinda failed logic, to me...


But anyway, yeah. It is what it is. I feel that, yeah, making someone work on their holiday should require extra compensation...but honestly, I think this **** shouldn't even be necessary. I think americans need to wake up and accept that if you **** in your bed, you gotta sleep in ****.
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This should be arranged between an employee and employer, why do we need a politician middleman-except for him to gain political capital?

PS-I get double and triple time often for being on call/OT/staying over, but I tell my bosses what Im looking for. I dont need a govt stooge intervening.
 
Im not in favor of the triple-time, but there should be regulation to enforce closed shops/businesses (other than maybe 1/5 gas stations, and emergency rooms) on thanksgiving, xmas. americans (and especially GOP voters) talk about family this, family that. ZERO f'n walking of the walk though. all consumerism, all the time. sickening.
 
Declan said:
Sure because the college athletes who do not even get to go home for the holiday because they are off playing for free in front of tens of thousands of people who are being served refreshments and foam fingers should be made to work--just not the guy who works at Walmart. Mom and pop shops have no incentive to even be open on black friday. People aren't coming there when Walmart has so many good deals.
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My husband was a Division 1 college athlete - hockey. They never played Thanksgiving Day but played on each day around it so in 4 years he was never once able to go home for Thanksgiving, and he also only got 4 days at Christmas every year. He wasn't playing in front of tens of thousands (hockey doesn't have that kind of following) but he also wasn't playing "for free". He got a full ride scholarship. That was the price he was paid, and it was a damn big one, even in the early 1980s.
 
jamesrage said:
What do you mean when you say Element TVs are made in America? Do you mean all the parts are made and assembled here in the US? All or most of the parts are made outside the US and assembled here in the US? Made in some American territory where they hire workers dirt cheap but since it is made on American territory they can still call it American made?
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Element TV's are made in America and while they mostly contain foreign made parts, they have indicated that they are actively looking for domestic parts suppliers. They just need more companies to open shop.
 
I used to be an audiophile back in my younger days. (Now, I couldn't care less) Anyway, back in the day (early 90s, IIRC) it was literally impossible to purchase an American-made cassette deck. Granted, CDs were all the rage, and there were limited options of American-made CD players available... some with tubes... cassettes weren't wholly irrelevant yet and many serious audio people still wanted quality decks. Yet, if you wanted to support America you were out of luck.

I do not know the current status of the stereo field as I no longer keep up with it.
 
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Declan said:
Element TV's are made in America and while they mostly contain foreign made parts, they have indicated that they are actively looking for domestic parts suppliers. They just need more companies to open shop.
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I struggle with this concept. Part of me say "assembled" is the same thing is "made" (in a given location), and part of me says it is not. I think for me to consider it having originated here would be that a majority of parts were from here as well.
 
radcen said:
I struggle with this concept. Part of me say "assembled" is the same thing is "made" (in a given location), and part of me says it is not. I think for me to consider it having originated here would be that a majority of parts were from here as well.
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I can understand your position but tThat would be true with most things made though. Letting it be known "hey if you build it in the US, we will buy from you" is about the best a company can do as far as suppliers. You have to have the materials to keep your doors open. Baby steps is better than nothing IMO.
 
Declan said:
Element TV's are made in America and while they mostly contain foreign made parts, they have indicated that they are actively looking for domestic parts suppliers. They just need more companies to open shop.
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That is very cool. I wish them success!

radcen said:
I used to be an audiophile back in my younger days. (Now, I couldn't care less) Anyway, back in the day (early 90s, IIRC) it was literally impossible to purchase an American-made cassette deck. Granted, CDs were all the rage, and there were limited options of American-made CD players available... some with tubes... cassettes weren't wholly irrelevant yet and many serious audio people still wanted quality decks. Yet, if you wanted to support America you were out of luck.

I do not know the current status of the stereo field as I no longer keep up with it
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My husband is a big audiophile. I don't remember all the details (although I've heard them in LOTS of detail) but he finds most of his equipment from US companies (i.e. LIO audio systems) and the two main digital download sites he uses - for high res music - are in the US. But I know he has bought something from Germany... he also gets our cables from the UK

Just asked him, he said it's easier to find the high-end audio that's all US made, but it is possible to find other audio stuff here as well.

Pelco - Pelco - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - used to assemble its cameras from scratch at their place, starting with sheets of metal. I did a tour of their place awhile ago and found that out. But could be different by now, and don't know about some of the sensors and whatnot.
 
radcen said:
I struggle with this concept. Part of me say "assembled" is the same thing is "made" (in a given location), and part of me says it is not. I think for me to consider it having originated here would be that a majority of parts were from here as well.
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I think we have to look at where most of the value is created. Often, even thought the product might have a tag that says "made in China", most of the value of that product is produced in the USA.

Think about the football jersies with pro and college team logos printed on them that they sell at places like Dicks and Academy. They may be priced as high as $80 in the stores, but most of the value is in the logo and brand and style and distribution of these products. Some company in China might have got paid $3 to make that garment, and they made it using an American design, with American equipment, and with the American public being the only reason it was produced to begin with. Less than 4% of the value of that garment was actually "made in China". We didn't send $80 to China, we sent $3.
 
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