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Increased Pay for working Thanksgiving

apdst said:
Giving them a free edication, free tudors and under-the-table bennies is exploitation? I would LOVE to be exploited like that!
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Watch out for those tudors. Some of them will chop your head off!
 
Declan said:
I want workers to own their workplace so I guess that is why I am progressive and not a liberal :2grouphug
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Wouldn't that make you a socialist?
 
Henrin said:
Wouldn't that make you a socialist?
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No because I want them to earn it and not just be handed it. I want it to happen within the capitalism framework.
 
Declan said:
Either way, people are free to organize or not organize, and so far they do not seem willing to organize in retail.
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Some do. I usually do my grocery shopping at Kroger. UFCW.
 
Declan said:
No because I want them to earn it and not just be handed it. I want it to happen within the capitalism framework.
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So are you just suggesting that ownership (stock holdings) shouldn't be concentrated with the few (the rich)? Or are you suggesting that most corporations should be worker-owned?

I've never been a big fan of the idea that companies should be owned by the workers, other than for small family businesses. It's a model that doesn't really seem to work that well, or else we'd have more of it.
 
Declan said:
No because I want them to earn it and not just be handed it. I want it to happen within the capitalism framework.
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Oh ok, so it would be private property and just worker owned. Those kind of businesses I never really understood how they stay in business. Just grabbing people off the street and giving them equal say in your business is extremely risky.
 
Muhammed said:
Some do. I usually do my grocery shopping at Kroger. UFCW.
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I have lived in places where kroger was unionized and places where it wasn't. The only real difference I saw was that where it was unionized, there were middle aged people bagging groceries and where it wasn't, they were teenage/college aged.
 
Henrin said:
Oh ok, so it would be private property and just worker owned. Those kind of businesses I never really understood how they stay in business. Just grabbing people off the street and giving them equal say in your business is extremely risky.
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Exactly.

I think the attraction for many liberals is that they think every worker would be "in charge". Of course real life doesn't work that way, and the LAST thing that any business needs is for workers to make the rules. Most businesses would be out of business in maybe six months if that happened.
 
Declan said:
Why do they not exist anymore?
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Traitorous politicians who enacted various trade deals that allowed companies to outsource.Republicans who swear up and down that they are patriotic and that communist suck balls signing trade deals with communist countries and democrats who occasionally side with them despite saying they care about poor Americans.
 
Declan said:
I have lived in places where kroger was unionized and places where it wasn't. The only real difference I saw was that where it was unionized, there were middle aged people bagging groceries and where it wasn't, they were teenage/college aged.
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That's not been my experience. The baggers at the union krogers around here are usually teenagers.
 
Declan said:
Keep dreaming. Unions are a thing of the past. It is why workers are relying on the democratic party to try to get them a wage increase--they have realized paying union dues will get them nothing. The only hope for workers (and manufacturing) is a real labor party that largely ignores being swept up into other issues in the left-right axis (or Labour Party if you want to be pretentious and use the British spelling).
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meh. at one point, company towns basically made people into slaves. they had a tougher hill to climb than we do. things usually find a balance.
 
KevinKohler said:
Ohio lawmakers propose triple Thanksgiving Day pay


Heard about this on NPR this morning. Not sure where I stand, thought, to be honest, I AM leaning towards actions like this...I'm just disgusted that such action is even needed.

Basically, more and more retailers are deciding to be open for Thanksgiving, a family holiday. I perceive this as a move by the government to discourage such actions, by increasing the cost. Thing is, if americans were really concerned about making this a family holiday...they wouldn't ****ing SHOP on thanksgiving. Simple solution, right? If no one shops on this day, stores won't feel compelled to open to capture those sales. They are saying that enough major retailers do this, they will pressure the mom and pops to follow suit. Now, I'm no economic genius, but I fail to see how this works? So, Kmart is open on thanksgiving, and this somehow forces a store that, prior to Kmart's position, ACCEPTED no sales on this day. But now that Kmart is making money on this day...all of a sudden the mom and pop will be losing money for not making money on that day? Seems like kinda failed logic, to me...


But anyway, yeah. It is what it is. I feel that, yeah, making someone work on their holiday should require extra compensation...but honestly, I think this **** shouldn't even be necessary. I think americans need to wake up and accept that if you **** in your bed, you gotta sleep in ****.
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At first when I saw the title, I thought it was weird because you already get paid at overtime rates on working Black Friday. But triple? No one at no time is worth triple what you pay them.
 
imagep said:
So are you just suggesting that ownership (stock holdings) shouldn't be concentrated with the few (the rich)? Or are you suggesting that most corporations should be worker-owned?
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Either one works. At the very least, workers should be more invested in capital acquisition instead of the wage inflation/dollar deflation spiral of death. I personally think that corporatism has broken the country. I think if more workplaces were employee-owned, they would be smaller and be more open to innovating to meet/create new market demands. I think it would be a capitalist way to push back against globalization. Instead of managing for the stock market prices, they would be more inclined to manage for the super market sales.

imagep said:
I've never been a big fan of the idea that companies should be owned by the workers, other than for small family businesses. It's a model that doesn't really seem to work that well, or else we'd have more of it.
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Most ESOP plans I am familiar with had a flaw designed into them--management got preferred stock and everybody else got common stock. Management cannibalized equity to give themselves dividends, screwing the common stock workers, and sometimes leaving their stock worth nothing and the company bankrupt. It was a back door way for them to raid the worker pension funds as well. The shorter the distance between the boardroom and the break room the better.
 
Henrin said:
I don't know about you, but I would fire someone for going on strike. That's probably why it's illegal. :D Still, they agreed to work, and by striking they clearly are not. It's not as if I don't have a legitimate reason to fire them.
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that's a cool tough guy story, but if you treat your workers badly enough, it usually ends up biting you in the ass.
 
Henrin said:
Oh ok, so it would be private property and just worker owned. Those kind of businesses I never really understood how they stay in business. Just grabbing people off the street and giving them equal say in your business is extremely risky.
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They usually do not "have equal say"
 
Muhammed said:
That's not been my experience. The baggers at the union krogers around here are usually teenagers.
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Then perhaps it is due to localized demographics.. Don't know.
 
jamesrage said:
Traitorous politicians who enacted various trade deals that allowed companies to outsource.Republicans who swear up and down that they are patriotic and that communist suck balls signing trade deals with communist countries and democrats who occasionally side with them despite saying they care about poor Americans.
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That is part of it, but you left out the part about Americans being willing to buy cheaper goods over more expensive goods.
 
imagep said:
I think the attraction for many liberals is that they think every worker would be "in charge".
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No, it's just that it encourages the corporation as a whole to treat the employees a little better.


Of course real life doesn't work that way, and the LAST thing that any business needs is for workers to make the rules. Most businesses would be out of business in maybe six months if that happened.
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Except for these.

The Employee Ownership 100: America's Largest Majority Employee-Owned Companies
List of employee-owned companies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
apdst said:
I don't even know where to begin. :lamo
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I am not a spelling or grammar Nazi, but some are really cute.

Thanks for the giggle.
 
How many people who complain about others working on Holidays do something... anything... that requires other people to work?

- How many of you forget something for dinner and run to the grocery store?

- How many go out to eat?

- How many travel and gas up their vehicle?

- How many watch football... or even just watch television?

It takes workers to make all these things happen? If you do any of these things, your indignation is misplaced.
 
KevinKohler said:
Ohio lawmakers propose triple Thanksgiving Day pay

Heard about this on NPR this morning. Not sure where I stand, thought, to be honest, I AM leaning towards actions like this...I'm just disgusted that such action is even needed.

Basically, more and more retailers are deciding to be open for Thanksgiving, a family holiday. I perceive this as a move by the government to discourage such actions, by increasing the cost. Thing is, if americans were really concerned about making this a family holiday...they wouldn't ****ing SHOP on thanksgiving. Simple solution, right? If no one shops on this day, stores won't feel compelled to open to capture those sales. They are saying that enough major retailers do this, they will pressure the mom and pops to follow suit. Now, I'm no economic genius, but I fail to see how this works? So, Kmart is open on thanksgiving, and this somehow forces a store that, prior to Kmart's position, ACCEPTED no sales on this day. But now that Kmart is making money on this day...all of a sudden the mom and pop will be losing money for not making money on that day? Seems like kinda failed logic, to me...

But anyway, yeah. It is what it is. I feel that, yeah, making someone work on their holiday should require extra compensation...but honestly, I think this **** shouldn't even be necessary. I think americans need to wake up and accept that if you **** in your bed, you gotta sleep in ****.
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We can dislike retailers being open for Thanksgiving if we like, but really, this is not in the legitimate realm of government-needed action.
 
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