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Reports: Ferguson grand jury has made decision

rhinefire said:
Remember how white folks rioted when OJ was acquitted? Neither do I.
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White folks do not suffer systemic privilege, so there was no threat to them when OJ was acquitted. When one is a minority, injustice serves as a very real threat to each an every member of the minority.
 
rhinefire said:
Remember how white folks rioted when OJ was acquitted? Neither do I.
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No, but I remember the black people cheering when he was acquitted. I guess it's a reason to celebrate when a black man gets away with killing his ex-wife and an innocent young man?

 
ecofarm said:
White folks do not suffer systemic privilege, so there was no threat to them when OJ was acquitted. When one is a minority, injustice serves as a very real threat to each an every member of the minority.
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Are you kidding me? The only threat to other minorities posed in this incident was CAUSED by the rioters, Michael Brown (remember who HIS victim was), and NOT caused by the system. Michael Brown committed strong armed robbery. And the people who think he is innocent destroyed business after business. Caused thousands, if not millions, of dollars of damage.

Justice served a threat too them too apparently.
 
stonewall50 said:
Are you kidding me? The only threat to other minorities posed in this incident was CAUSED by the rioters, Michael Brown (remember who HIS victim was), and NOT caused by the system. Michael Brown committed strong armed robbery. And the people who think he is innocent destroyed business after business. Caused thousands, if not millions, of dollars of damage.

Justice served a threat too them too apparently.
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Why can't you understand basic sociological fact?

An instance of perceived injustice is of no threat to whites collectively, it is to blacks - because of the existence of systemic privilege.

And it's not "the people who think he's innocent". It's hooligans and gangs.
 
ecofarm said:
Well, my first point is that you appear to claim that in the early pics of Brown he was a white person. Otherwise, your "Black" is superfluous yet, strangely, emphasized.

My second point is that while Chinese should be capitalized, black should not and nor should white. Don't you think that demonstrates an unhealthy level of obsession about race?
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On the first point, I've never, every tried to claim that Michael Brown was White. What I have claimed is that the media continued to post the same picture of him as a child when it wasn't an adolescent who committed the crime (strong arm robbery or assault on a police officer just to name two) or was the victim of a police shooting. Image is everything and what the media tried to do was paint a picture of a child being killed by the police.

As for the rest, you post your way and I'll post mine. If you don't like it, you have every right not to read it or comment about it.

As to your charge of racism within my writing, only folks who are looking for it will find what's not there. Trust me, when I make a post that is racially divisive, everyone who knows me on this board will know about it!
 
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There was a lot of talk about "outsiders" coming to Ferguson to cause problems and riot. There was also talk about cops out of uniform agitating the protestors and egging them on. With all the threats of violence and rioting after a verdict is announced it seems very strange that they would release the verdict at night...making it difficult to identify anyone who riot or commit violence. Which kind of leads me to believe the cops might have something to do the rioting last night.



Anyway, I quit following the story a few months ago. The only question I really have is why do some in the media keep saying that this grand jury was "different" than other grand juries....and even after they explain the difference....I still don't see it.
 
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Moot said:
There was a lot of talk about "outsiders" coming to Ferguson to cause problems and riot. There was also talk about cops out of uniform agitating the protestors and egging them on. With all the threats of violence and rioting after a verdict is announced it seems very strange that they would release the verdict at night...making it difficult to identify anyone who riot or commit violence. Which kind of leads me to believe the cops might have something to do the rioting last night. e it.
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Fake moon landing.....bush rigged the Twin towers...I guess I've hear sillier theories.
 
ecofarm said:
White folks do not suffer systemic privilege, so there was no threat to them when OJ was acquitted. When one is a minority, injustice serves as a very real threat to each an every member of the minority.
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What injustice?


The wrong horse was backed, The "gentle giant" was a thug, charged the cop. got shot. That should have been the end of it. Instead black owned stores, and EVEN THE ONE THE DUDE ROBBED" got looted and burned.
 
KLATTU said:
Fake moon landing.....bush rigged the Twin towers...I guess I've hear sillier theories.
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Hey, I'm not the one who voted for the guy wearing magic underwear.
 
Objective Voice said:
As for the rest, you post your way and I'll post mine. If you don't like it, you have every right not to read it or comment about it.
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I have every right to post about it and I don't give a **** if you like it. Feel free to take your own advice.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
What injustice?


The wrong horse was backed, The "gentle giant" was a thug, charged the cop. got shot. That should have been the end of it. Instead black owned stores, and EVEN THE ONE THE DUDE ROBBED" got looted and burned.
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Perceived injustice.

My point is not to determine innocence or guilt, it is to explain that individual instances of perceived racial injustice constitute a threat to blacks collectively, as a result of systemic privilege. Similar instances regarding perceived injustice regarding a white victim do not threaten whites collectively, as there is no systemic privilege adversely affecting whites to be perpetuated.

Given perceived injustice... Regarding blacks, it's a threat. Regarding whites, it's not. That is the reason blacks riot and whites do not regarding instances of perceived injustice.
 
Moot said:
There was a lot of talk about "outsiders" coming to Ferguson to cause problems and riot. There was also talk about cops out of uniform agitating the protestors and egging them on. With all the threats of violence and rioting after a verdict is announced it seems very strange that they would release the verdict at night...making it difficult to identify anyone who riot or commit violence. Which kind of leads me to believe the cops might have something to do the rioting last night.



Anyway, I quit following the story a few months ago. The only question I really have is why do some in the media keep saying that this grand jury was "different" than other grand juries....and even after they explain the difference....I still don't see it.
Click to expand...

I've heard a lot of people complaining about the timing of the release. I'm going to speculate just a bit on this but I suspect that choice of timing was at least partially determined after consultation with various "community leaders" who have been a part of this process all along. There also weren't a whole lot of choices. It could have been announced:
1. Mid Afternoon while the streets were filled with shoppers and families with children. If violence broke out then a lot of people would have been endangered;
2. Early morning which would have made it difficult for a lot of the protesters that wanted to be involved to participate;
3. Later in the evening (which it was) thus not making it too early or too late for protesters to participate, after most shoppers have gone home, after traffic has slowed for the night.

Sure, option #3 opens the door for property crime but only if the "community leaders" can't convince the crowds to maintain calm. It also lessens the chance of non-involved bystanders getting caught up in activities if things go sour. Looking at it from a worst case scenario, you'll expect property damage but have mitigated a lot of the possibility of assaults and other crimes against people.
 
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Moot said:
There was a lot of talk about "outsiders" coming to Ferguson to cause problems and riot. There was also talk about cops out of uniform agitating the protestors and egging them on. With all the threats of violence and rioting after a verdict is announced it seems very strange that they would release the verdict at night...making it difficult to identify anyone who riot or commit violence. Which kind of leads me to believe the cops might have something to do the rioting last night.



Anyway, I quit following the story a few months ago. The only question I really have is why do some in the media keep saying that this grand jury was "different" than other grand juries....and even after they explain the difference....I still don't see it.
Click to expand...

I've been thinking about that, the timing of the presser and leasing the GJ decision.

If it were during the day, you'd have all that normal business and work traffic driving around, in the middle of riots. Very likely that am innocent would be pulled their cars and beaten to death, ala King riots and the truck driver (King riots I believe it was).

Given that logic, the only thing to do would be to hold it until Saturday, Thanksgiving weekend. Errmmm. No, I'd not want that either.

When's a good time to announce when the riots should commence? Is there really a good time for that?
 
Lutherf said:
I've heard a lot of people complaining about the timing of the release. I'm going to speculate just a bit on this but I suspect that choice of timing was at least partially determined after consultation with various "community leaders" who have been a part of this process all along. There also weren't a whole lot of choices. It could have been announced:
1. Mid Afternoon while the streets were filled with shoppers and families with children. If violence broke out then a lot of people would have been endangered;
2. Early morning which would have made it difficult for a lot of the protesters that wanted to be involved to participate;
3. Later in the evening (which it was) thus not making it too early or too late for protesters to participate, after most shoppers have gone home, after traffic has slowed for the night.

Sure, option #3 opens the door for property crime but only if the "community leaders" can't convince the crowds to maintain calm. It also lessens the chance of non-involved bystanders getting caught up in activities if things go sour. Looking at it from a worst case scenario, you'll expect property damage but have mitigated a lot of the possibility of assaults and other crimes against people.
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eohrnberger said:
I've been thinking about that, the timing of the presser and leasing the GJ decision.

If it were during the day, you'd have all that normal business and work traffic driving around, in the middle of riots. Very likely that am innocent would be pulled their cars and beaten to death, ala King riots and the truck driver (King riots I believe it was).

Given that logic, the only thing to do would be to hold it until Saturday, Thanksgiving weekend. Errmmm. No, I'd not want that either.

When's a good time to announce when the riots should commence? Is there really a good time for that?
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You've made some very valid points, Lutherf (and you too, ehornberger). I would also add that most peaceful protestors would likely leave or have stayed home if there were violence (which there was) so rounding up the troublemakers might not have been that difficult after all.

The police chief did seem pretty proud that no one was seriously hurt. There was some mention that a lot of the trouble makers were 14 year olds.......which suggests that the Ferguson community needs to do some self reflection on child raising....as well as local tax reform.
 
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Lutherf said:
I've heard a lot of people complaining about the timing of the release. I'm going to speculate just a bit on this but I suspect that choice of timing was at least partially determined after consultation with various "community leaders" who have been a part of this process all along. There also weren't a whole lot of choices. It could have been announced:
1. Mid Afternoon while the streets were filled with shoppers and families with children. If violence broke out then a lot of people would have been endangered;
2. Early morning which would have made it difficult for a lot of the protesters that wanted to be involved to participate;
3. Later in the evening (which it was) thus not making it too early or too late for protesters to participate, after most shoppers have gone home, after traffic has slowed for the night.

Sure, option #3 opens the door for property crime but only if the "community leaders" can't convince the crowds to maintain calm. It also lessens the chance of non-involved bystanders getting caught up in activities if things go sour. Looking at it from a worst case scenario, you'll expect property damage but have mitigated a lot of the possibility of assaults and other crimes against people.
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Or, they knew that if it was the night then the thugs would be able to loot and burn the city under the cover of darkness exacerbating the protest.

It's known that most of the time there are what's referred to as agents provocateur, who are paid to join the protest and be violent to provide justification for a heavy handed response against the legitimate protesters.

The fact that they waited at least a week longer than expected to say that they were not going to charge the cop. Hell, anyone that saw the evidence knew long ago that, in this case, the shooting was justifiable. If only by the measure that cops get away with far worse than normal people, and the case was only ambiguous.

How come the race pimps always grab onto these ambiguous cases? (Like trayvon Martin case) while there are plenty of cut and dry cases that better illustrate the injustice these people are fighting (or in the case of the looters pretend to be fighting for)??

Could it be because it is better used as a divisive topic?

What's that term again : divide and _______?
 
ecofarm said:
Why can't you understand basic sociological fact?

An instance of perceived injustice is of no threat to whites collectively, it is to blacks - because of the existence of systemic privilege.
Click to expand...

It is NOT a threat to blacks unless blacks decide to burn down the community in which they reside. The whole concept that the system unfairly treats blacks is BS. They have the same options open as the rest of us. They are entitled to NOTHING more than that. They get equal opportunity, not equality. There is a difference. The first is fair, the second demands special treatment for skin color.

If anything the system is unfair to those with less money. But that isn't your argument.


And it's not "the people who think he's innocent". It's hooligans and gangs.
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Agreed.
 
stonewall50 said:
It is NOT a threat to blacks unless blacks decide to burn down the community in which they reside. The whole concept that the system unfairly treats blacks is BS. They have the same options open as the rest of us. They are entitled to NOTHING more than that. They get equal opportunity, not equality. There is a difference. The first is fair, the second demands special treatment for skin color.

If anything the system is unfair to those with less money. But that isn't your argument.




Agreed.
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Perceived injustice is a threat to blacks collectively because systemic privilege exists.
 
ecofarm said:
I don't do random youtube clips. But you do know he's a comedian, right?
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It's not random and using comedy it speaks to your attempt to segment off the black population into some set upon and victimized group.
 
clownboy said:
It's not random and using comedy it speaks to your attempt to segment off the black population into some set upon and victimized group.
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The point was lost on him. Rock understood the difference.
 
I challenge anyone who believes that this grand jury decision is fair to take a couple of hours and sit in any courtroom across America that is handling preliminary hearings and witness the kind of "probable cause" the routinely results in people being "held to answer". I think your eyes would be opened to what the standard of proof that "probable cause" is in the average courtroom.
 
Moot said:
You've made some very valid points, Lutherf (and you too, ehornberger). I would also add that most peaceful protestors would likely leave or have stayed home if there were violence (which there was) so rounding up the troublemakers might not have been that difficult after all.

The police chief did seem pretty proud that no one was seriously hurt. There was some mention that a lot of the trouble makers were 14 year olds.......which suggests that the Ferguson community needs to do some self reflection on child raising....as well as local tax reform.
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14 year olds?:shock:
 
eohrnberger said:
I've been thinking about that, the timing of the presser and leasing the GJ decision.

If it were during the day, you'd have all that normal business and work traffic driving around, in the middle of riots. Very likely that am innocent would be pulled their cars and beaten to death, ala King riots and the truck driver (King riots I believe it was).

Given that logic, the only thing to do would be to hold it until Saturday, Thanksgiving weekend. Errmmm. No, I'd not want that either.

When's a good time to announce when the riots should commence? Is there really a good time for that?
Click to expand...

If he announced it at 8 am CT on Thursday, November 13th there would still have been rioting and looting, and people would be saying "WTF did he announce it then for?".

When you want to blame others for the malfeasance being committed in Ferguson right now, any port in a storm will do.
 
disneydude said:
I challenge anyone who believes that this grand jury decision is fair to take a couple of hours and sit in any courtroom across America that is handling preliminary hearings and witness the kind of "probable cause" the routinely results in people being "held to answer". I think your eyes would be opened to what the standard of proof that "probable cause" is in the average courtroom.
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Wow....you're willing to COMPLETELY ignore Brown's actions prior to his death based on subjective generalizations about the " fairness " of GJs.
 
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