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Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police

Re: The next Ferguson ?

The caller could -- at least enough to mention it directly during his emergency call. Why didn't the dispatcher pass that along? Why couldn't the officers read the situation as well as a pedestrian could? Why did the officers not administer first aid after the shooting? Do you have answers to any of these questions?
He said "I dont know...its PROBABLY...." making a guess not a judgement.

Youve seen the gun. Go ahead. Lie. Make the claim you could have been able to determine it was not a real gun.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

He said "I dont know...its PROBABLY...." making a guess not a judgement.

Youve seen the gun. Go ahead. Lie. Make the claim you could have been able to determine it was not a real gun.

I would have never been in that situation. I would have taken an entirely different approach, as opposed to the "amps to 11" escalation on display in that video. And, as you note, the caller could distinguish. "Probably" means that's how he read the situation. He was right. The police were wrong.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

I would have never been in that situation. I would have taken an entirely different approach, as opposed to the "amps to 11" escalation on display in that video. And, as you note, the caller could distinguish. "Probably" means that's how he read the situation. He was right. The police were wrong.
Oh I agree completely...you would NEVER be in the situation. Ever. SO you can be nice and safe judging from the armchair.

But at least you wont lie about being able to tell the difference. Granted...that makes all your other ridiculous comments about the toy gun that much more silly...but I'll at least give you credit for not lying about that.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Oh I agree completely...you would NEVER be in the situation. Ever. SO you can be nice and safe judging from the armchair.

But at least you wont lie about being able to tell the difference. Granted...that makes all your other ridiculous comments about the toy gun that much more silly...but I'll at least give you credit for not lying about that.

And you continue to ignore all context and focus solely on how "real" the gun looks. However, even if the gun had been a real firearm, I still think the cops were wrong. It is legal to have firearms in Ohio. No one was in any immediate danger until the two killer cops arrived.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

And you continue to ignore all context and focus solely on how "real" the gun looks. However, even if the gun had been a real firearm, I still think the cops were wrong. It is legal to have firearms in Ohio. No one was in any immediate danger until the two killer cops arrived.

Why thats just horse****, son. If that was your REAL point you wouldn't continue to spend so much time with the lie about the 'toy' gun rhetoric.

If you think that when cops respond to a report of a man threatening people with a firearm they should just wait to respond when said perp is actually reaching for the weapon, then let's hope no one you ever give a **** about becomes a cop.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

It demonstrates that the caller could at least partially distinguish between the two and saw it fit to warn the police -- could it be the caller was recommending not jumping to conclusions? It also demonstrates that the threat, such as it was, was not clear and direct. It's clear the caller read the situation much more accurately than the police did. The dispatcher and officers all displayed incompetence, and the cops showed a clear bias toward confrontation and violence. How can you not hold them responsible?

No it doesn't. It suggests that most likely either a) the caller was hopeful that it was a toy due mainly to the age of the person or b) they were basing it on the fact that the kid hadn't actually shot anyone with the gun yet and those closest to it (since the guy who called never got that close from what we saw in the video) weren't running from it (although apparently some were speeding up when it was pointed at them).

No, they did not display incompetence. They did their job. They were dealing with a situation where they did not know what was going on and a kid who was not taught to respect not only guns (even toys) but also police officers and their authority, which they do have.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Why thats just horse****, son. WHat...you think police are going to respond to a call about a man threatening people with a gun nonchalantly? You are being embarrassingly ridiculous.

Then you're blind. The urgency, danger and rage was brought by the police, not the boy who was sitting calmly before they arrived.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Springfield makes one just like it. It's called the Operator.

Colt also makes the Rail Gun, but it looks somewhat different than the gun the boy was shot with.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Something tells me you're argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

There are 1911s with longer than normal slides.
Yes, there are. Find me a Long Slide with a rail. Sure, may be some custom guns out there like that. But not something you will find every day.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Some BB guns do, most do not. Most airsoft guns do. I don't understand why this is arguable.
This kid had a very very realistic, mag fed 1911 style hand gun. If you do not do EXACTLY what officers tell you to do. You may very well be shot.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

and a kid who was not taught to respect not only guns (even toys) but also police officers and their authority, which they do have.

Is thisw speculation, or is there information available to support it?
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

This kid had a very very realistic, mag fed 1911 style hand gun. If you do not do EXACTLY what officers tell you to do. You may very well be shot.

When did he have time to do anything?
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

I don't know if anyone has posted this, but video has recently come out of Tamir Rice's shooting. BBC News - Tamir Rice shot 'within two seconds' of police arrival

Video shows Cleveland officer shooting 12-year-old Tamir Rice within seconds - The Washington Post

The cops didn't even say anything, they just rolled up on the kid and shot him.




Incorrect, they rolled up on him and clearly you can see in the video the kid goes for the very real looking replica 1911 pistol in his waistband.

How long should the cops have waited?
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

This kid had a very very realistic, mag fed 1911 style hand gun. If you do not do EXACTLY what officers tell you to do. You may very well be shot.

Not only that, but he consciously MADE it look that way. His intent was for it to look like a real high velocity gun. Airsoft BB and pellet guns ship with the orange tip installed.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Incorrect, they rolled up on him and clearly you can see in the video the kid goes for the very real looking replica 1911 pistol in his waistband.

How long should the cops have waited?

Maybe instead of shooting him, you could've taken your guns out and told the kid to put his hands up or to drop the alleged weapon.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Maybe instead of shooting him, you could've taken your guns out and told the kid to put his hands up or to drop the alleged weapon.

They did, 3 times. The crime rate at the rec center prompted the security cam installations and was known for having issues. The weekend prior to Thanksgiving saw a robbery, at gunpoint, perpetrated by 4 teenagers.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Maybe instead of shooting him, you could've taken your guns out and told the kid to put his hands up or to drop the alleged weapon.


kid went for the gun in his waistband, it's clear in the video. Remember, you have the rest of your life to win a gunfight.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

They did, 3 times. The crime rate at the rec center prompted the security cam installations and was known for having issues. The weekend prior to Thanksgiving saw a robbery, at gunpoint, perpetrated by 4 teenagers.

From the video that I saw, there was absolutely no discussion whatsoever.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

This is really a tragic story and I noticed the article didn't say how many rounds were fired at the boy.

While there are legal ways to rationalize a justification for the officer shooting, still, I don't like it. A lot. In the past, basically every boy played with toy guns outside and none had red tips. Hell, a red tip doesn't even mean it's fake. Why were those kids of generations past routinely gunned down then too? Something's very wrong with that happening.
 
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Re: The next Ferguson ?

When are schools going to start teaching kids the reality that if they are not conditioned to do EXACTLY and INSTANTLY anything anyone who says they are police or look like might be police they might get immediately gunned down or beaten to death for resisting?
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Colt also makes the Rail Gun, but it looks somewhat different than the gun the boy was shot with.

Yes, there are. Find me a Long Slide with a rail. Sure, may be some custom guns out there like that. But not something you will find every day.

So? The gun exists, it's out there, it could have been a real gun.
 
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