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Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police

Re: The next Ferguson ?

The evidence in this case clearly shows the police bringing all of the drama and all of the danger with them to that crime scene. Those cops belong in jail.
No...the evidence clearly shows an individual threatening others, witnesses calling the cops out of concern, and the individual reaching for the 'gun' when the cops pulled up.

Bad **** happens when you do stupid things. Its pathetic how people like you repeatedly insist the problem is always the RESPONSE.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

:lamo Of course I can. His friend knew what he was doing, told him to stop, warned him that it would cause a problem. Witnesses said he was intentionally pointing the weapon at others to scare them.

And from those incomplete snippets of information, you can extrapolate his "thug life" state of mind. It's a sad stretch of reasoning at best.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

No...the evidence clearly shows an individual threatening others, witnesses calling the cops out of concern, and the individual reaching for the 'gun' when the cops pulled up.

Bad **** happens when you do stupid things. Its pathetic how people like you repeatedly insist the problem is always the RESPONSE.

The police brought all of the danger with them. Simple. The only way anyone gets hurt in this scenario is if the cops pull up and shoot the kid much as they did. Had they waited even 2 more seconds to evaluate the situation, everyone goes home without incident. The police created ALL of the tragedy and belong in prison. If it a citizen does this, it's murder. For the cops, I'll accept manslaughter.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

And from those incomplete snippets of information, you can extrapolate his "thug life" state of mind. It's a sad stretch of reasoning at best.
Yep...thats precisely correct. Sorry that has caused you to wet yourself. And by sorry I mean of course, not sorry.

Ever and always. There will never be a shortage of dead people because people like you will always rush to excuse the active of the instigator. Kinda makes people like YOU the most responsible for tragedies like this of all.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Yep...thats precisely correct. Sorry that has caused you to wet yourself. And by sorry I mean of course, not sorry.

Ever and always. There will never be a shortage of dead people because people like you will always rush to excuse the active of the instigator. Kinda makes people like YOU the most responsible for tragedies like this of all.

Everybody is responsible -- everyone, including me, apparently -- except the guy who pulled the trigger, right? Watch the video again. There's no one else around. The cops are the only threat to public safety on that film. The officers didn't even perform first aid on the kid. Someone else had to come by to offer even that to this never-convicted, unarmed American citizen lying bleeding to death in a public park. I would speculate about why they didn't offer aid to the dying boy, but unlike you, I don't pretend to be able to read people's minds.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Everybody is responsible -- everyone, including me, apparently -- except the guy who pulled the trigger, right? Watch the video again. There's no one else around. The cops are the only threat to public safety on that film. The officers didn't even perform first aid on the kid. Someone else had to come by to offer even that to this never-convicted, unarmed American citizen lying bleeding to death in a public park. I would speculate about why they didn't offer aid to the dying boy, but unlike you, I don't pretend to be able to read people's minds.
The responsible party is the douchebag that thought it would be a good idea to take a gun to the park and threaten people with it. Spread that word. Runtelldat. You MIGHT end up preventing stupid people from dying, be it by a cop, a citizen, or even another random thug. But nah...you are going to keep ignoring the disease...

Yes...it IS you and people like you.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

The police brought all of the danger with them. Simple. The only way anyone gets hurt in this scenario is if the cops pull up and shoot the kid much as they did. Had they waited even 2 more seconds to evaluate the situation, everyone goes home without incident.
It's all too easy to say that in hindsight, when we know for a fact that it was an Airsoft pistol rather than a real gun.

However and again... the officer had absolutely no way to know that. Airsoft guns are highly realistic replicas, as a photo of the evidence should make clear....

635526179619031470-tamir-rice-fake-gun-EDITED.jpg


The officers drove up to Tamir, who allegedly reached for the incredibly-realistic Airsoft pistol. If it had been a real gun, and the officer hesitated too long, or if they approached from 50 yards away, we could be mourning the officer (and/or an innocent bystander and/or Tamir) instead.

This is not to say the officer has no responsibility or absolutely did the right thing, only that we can't judge it based on incomplete information. That's why we have incident reviews and due process.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

The responsible party is the douchebag...
Tamir wasn't a "douchebag." He was an adolescent, and like most adolescents -- almost certainly including you -- he did something risky and unwise. It happens.

In addition, brandishing a replica weapon is not a capital offense. Although it is very possible that the officer's actions were justified, Tamir certainly did not "deserve" to be shot because he was being a bit of an idiot that one day.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Tamir wasn't a "douchebag." He was an adolescent, and like most adolescents -- almost certainly including you -- he did something risky and unwise. It happens.

In addition, brandishing a replica weapon is not a capital offense. Although it is very possible that the officer's actions were justified, Tamir certainly did not "deserve" to be shot because he was being a bit of an idiot that one day.
He was a douchebag...a thug...a criminal in the making. Had he grown up, that likely might have changed. Or it may have gotten worse. We wont know because what he did was stupid and ended up causing him to die. No one said he 'deserved' to die. What HAS been said that his actions caused a not unexpected reaction.

Message...dont do stupid ****. IF you have kids, teach them that message. If you wont, have someone that actually gives a **** about them teach that message.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

The police brought all of the danger with them. Simple. The only way anyone gets hurt in this scenario is if the cops pull up and shoot the kid much as they did. Had they waited even 2 more seconds to evaluate the situation, everyone goes home without incident. The police created ALL of the tragedy and belong in prison. If it a citizen does this, it's murder. For the cops, I'll accept manslaughter.

Or due to the unknowns( is it real or is it Memorex? ), one or more LEO may have been dead.... hell, charge the parent(s) for not raising the kid to understand deference.

Thom Paine
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

So, what's the standard then? Police can shoot anyone carrying a gun around in an open carry state because they think there's a possibility they'll be in danger?

Of course they are. Especially if a person has the temerity to live in a bad neighborhood.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Take away his age...something law enforcement did not know. Respond with the knowns...a male with a gun is threatening people at the park. This guy.

2387FEDC00000578-2850234-Surveillance_footage_shows_12_year_old_Tamir_Rice_raising_and_po-64_141.jpg

Then, when you roll up on the scene, that same individual gets up, walks TOWARDS you, and raises his shirt going to his 'gun'.

2387FC2200000578-2850234-image-67_1417029653698.jpg23881F6C00000578-2853266-image-10_1417191389295.jpg

Tragic. Teach kids better.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Yeah. Cops aren't going to do ANYTHING else when they roll up on a scene where there is a man reported to have a gun and pointing at people other than shoot him when that person goes for what they have been told is a gun. Thats how that scenario is SUPPOSED to play out.

The kid was intentionally living the thug life pointing his gun at people trying to scare them. Theres a good news bad news response here. Good news is...it worked. Bad news is......it worked.

I like how you just decided what sort of person this kid is.

He was a douchebag...a thug...a criminal in the making. Had he grown up, that likely might have changed. Or it may have gotten worse. We wont know because what he did was stupid and ended up causing him to die. No one said he 'deserved' to die. What HAS been said that his actions caused a not unexpected reaction.

Message...dont do stupid ****. IF you have kids, teach them that message. If you wont, have someone that actually gives a **** about them teach that message.

Man, you really ****ing know this kid well, don't you? Did you live in this neighborhood and know him? You keep spitting out the word thug with such hatred. Based on what?
 
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Re: The next Ferguson ?

I like how you just decided what sort of person this kid is.



Man, you really ****ing know this kid well, don't you? Did you live in this neighborhood and know him? You keep spitting out the word thug with such hatred. Based on what?
Do you? Awesome. I'm usually a pretty good judge of character. Thanks for noticing!
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Do you? Awesome. I'm usually a pretty good judge of character. Thanks for noticing!

Do I? I'm not the one who has this kid's personality and entire life mapped out for him based on a thirty second video and a second-hand 911 call.

Thug in training. I asked you to explain what you based that on. You didn't answer. Curious.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Do I? I'm not the one who has this kid's personality and entire life mapped out for him based on a thirty second video and a second-hand 911 call.

Thug in training. I asked you to explain what you based that on. You didn't answer. Curious.
Kid running around pointing gun he knows looks real (he bought it BECAUSE it looked real), intentionally threatening people at the park WITH gun he knows looks real.

Ta da.

You are welcome. Feel free to go back to...well...whatever the **** it is you do.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Hey Deuce...since you want to make this personal...lets look at the 'personal' side of things....

You are freaking out about the "thug in training" comment(and I bet you are the kind of guy that has the racist idea that thug=black. Shame on you!!!)

Now...
Daddy-"accused of punching his live-in girlfriend in the head and arms during an incident in August, according to a police record."

Mommy-"Samaria Rice, who pleaded guilty to drug trafficking last year and assault in 2001."

Daddy again-"Dec. 8, 2001, Warner was the knife-wielding attacker of mommy at a home in the 3800 block of East 92nd Street."

Daddy yet AGAIN- In 2010, Warner was arrested again for domestic violence. He pleaded guilty and was sentenced to two years probation (4th incident-I blame the justcie system for not throwing him in prison the first time). Samaria Rice was the victim in that case, according to the court.

Even though their relationship ended, Samaria Rice again found herself the victim of violence at the hands of men.

She called Strongsville police twice in 2010 to report abuse from a boyfriend when she lived in that city.

And apparently, mommy had ****ty taste in the men she brought into the family home. "er live-in boyfriend, Michael Wiley, of Cleveland, beat her for two days. Wiley was convicted of domestic violence and given a suspended 90-day jail sentence, county court records show." Again...WTG court system.

Not great examples, certainly not great parenting, guardians knew he had a gun bought BECAUSE it looked real for 'self defense' and we have indisputable evidence he was running around with his gun threatening others.

Thug. In. Training.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

:lamo

Yeah, keep telling yourself that you didn't call him a thug because he was black. Some white country kid with an abusive father, on the other hand, grows up to be a real American. Expected to get into guns at a young age. Long as he votes Republican, anyway.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Or due to the unknowns( is it real or is it Memorex? ), one or more LEO may have been dead.... hell, charge the parent(s) for not raising the kid to understand deference.

Thom Paine

The kid did nothing illegal or all that unusual. Only one crime takes place on that video, and it's not the kid who commits it. You act as thought any doubt at all is grounds for opening fire. I see kids with real guns all the time (sportsman's club, neighbor's house, hunting, walking down the road). By your standards, the police would be justified in shooting any of them at any time, because you just never know when they're gonna draw down on you.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

It's all too easy to say that in hindsight, when we know for a fact that it was an Airsoft pistol rather than a real gun.

However and again... the officer had absolutely no way to know that. Airsoft guns are highly realistic replicas, as a photo of the evidence should make clear....

635526179619031470-tamir-rice-fake-gun-EDITED.jpg


The officers drove up to Tamir, who allegedly reached for the incredibly-realistic Airsoft pistol. If it had been a real gun, and the officer hesitated too long, or if they approached from 50 yards away, we could be mourning the officer (and/or an innocent bystander and/or Tamir) instead.

This is not to say the officer has no responsibility or absolutely did the right thing, only that we can't judge it based on incomplete information. That's why we have incident reviews and due process.

Hindsight is precisely what we use to determine criminal penalties. In the civilian world, if you cause someone's death -- even without intent -- you are criminally liable. The officers -- agents of the state -- should have at the very least given this citizen the chance to survive that encounter. The standard of justice I'd espouse is simple: If you open fire, you better be sure, or you face the consequences of your mistake.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

The responsible party is the douchebag that thought it would be a good idea to take a gun to the park and threaten people with it. Spread that word. Runtelldat. You MIGHT end up preventing stupid people from dying, be it by a cop, a citizen, or even another random thug. But nah...you are going to keep ignoring the disease...

Yes...it IS you and people like you.

You mean the "disease" of children playing with BB guns? Why didn't the officers provide first aid? Whose responsible for their actions after the shooting? The only "disease" I see here is an increasingly militarized and confrontational police force, and those like you willing to lie down and submit to it.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

The kid did nothing illegal or all that unusual. Only one crime takes place on that video, and it's not the kid who commits it. You act as thought any doubt at all is grounds for opening fire. I see kids with real guns all the time (sportsman's club, neighbor's house, hunting, walking down the road). By your standards, the police would be justified in shooting any of them at any time, because you just never know when they're gonna draw down on you.

It is indeed sad that the child's parent)s) did not think it important to teach him propriety and deference.

I must digress here, to remind that this thread is about a tragedy; not anyone's contrived perception of my standards.

Let us again return to the scheduled program.

Good day sir

Thom Paine
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

It is indeed sad that the child's parent)s) did not think it important to teach him propriety and deference.

I must digress here, to remind that this thread is about a tragedy; not anyone's contrived perception of my standards.

Let us again return to the scheduled program.

Good day sir

Thom Paine

I meant, of course, by the standards outlined in your post. I don't know you as a person and can't judge your personal standards. I'd like to point out, however, that you have no idea what that kid's parents taught him or didn't teach him. Why don't we teach the police not to shoot unarmed people?
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

when my late father was a kid (30s) you could buy handguns in the mail and he and his brother used to get beat up old police revolvers that their father would grind off the firing pin on the hammer for use as toy guns. when my father was in prep school (1940-44) he kept a shotgun and a rifle in his dorm room since he was the national HS skeet champion and on the varsity rifle team. no one ever got shot at those schools. As a naval reserve officer 44-48, he attended first Miami (Ohio) under the Naval V-12 program and then Yale. While at Yale, he was an ensign in the navy and sometimes had to be involved in shore patrol after class So he would go to class in uniform (as did others) with a pistol on his belt which, as an officer, he carried. Again, that was not uncommon and no one ever got shot by students who packed firearms

Our culture has changed. I can remember being in the 7th grade doing a skit on stage in front of the whole school where I was shooting my air pumped empty BB rifle into the air. It was only a BB rifle but there I was up in front of all these students shooting this rifle and not one teacher flinched.
But that was then and now is now.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

I meant, of course, by the standards outlined in your post. I don't know you as a person and can't judge your personal standards. I'd like to point out, however, that you have no idea what that kid's parents taught him or didn't teach him. Why don't we teach the police not to shoot unarmed people?

Okay G, I'll opine a little further...

The boy appeared to be armed and any prudent person would take defensive measures under those circumstances. It is a natural fight or flight response and a person is not able to outrun a bullet... so fight it is. It takes less than a second to present, aim, and fire a sidearm; so, 2.5 seconds is a long time to wait during life or death decision making. At this point with known information I cannot automatically condemn the LEOs.

As far as the child's teachings... his location and actions demonstrate his lacking awareness of propriety and deference. To whom might those failings be attributed?

Human's do not learn via osmosis. We must be taught and those teachings must be constantly and consistently stressed during childhood and sometimes beyond.

The only other thing to add... I encourage those who have never been on the wrong end of any weapon to do a little soul searching in consideration of their own responses when death appears imminent. Many would like to think they'd perform differently but could survival instinct allow that difference ? Most do not and hopefully will never face a situation to know the answer to that question.

This is a tragedy for which all involved, parents and LE partcularly, will wish for a different outcome.

G'day G

Thom Paine
 
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