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Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police

TheNextEra said:
Ignoring the order didn't kill the kid, grabbing the gun did. Even at 6 years old I knew NEVER to do that.
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Oooo, good for you. But the world isn't 1 person cloned. The fact of the matter is that we have seen multiple occasions of innocent people being killed by police for having fake guns. The frequency is enough to warrant reviewing and perhaps even improving threat assessment protocol.
 
Ikari said:
That point would vary upon situation. You don't get a "one size fits all" response. In this case, you may have to wait till the kids shoots to fire back with a firearm. And until that point, you may have to use less-than-lethal options such as a tazer. If there were hostages, the situation would change. if the cops new the gun was real, the situation would change.
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Nonsense. No person is obligated to wait until someone is shooting at them before firing back.

You are taking a look back at a situation that happened rather than looking at it from the perspective of those that were there and had seconds to assess and act.
 
Ikari said:
Oooo, good for you. But the world isn't 1 person cloned. The fact of the matter is that we have seen multiple occasions of innocent people being killed by police for having fake guns. The frequency is enough to warrant reviewing and perhaps even improving threat assessment protocol.
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So we have a frequency of people doing stupid things like pointing fake guns at cops or ignoring orders and grabbing a fake gun.

Seems it's an education part on the public. I love the fact you blame the cops but not the people doing the dumb things.

Maybe it's Darwinism at work here.
 
TheNextEra said:
So we have a frequency of people doing stupid things like pointing fake guns at cops or ignoring orders and grabbing a fake gun.

Seems it's an education part on the public. I love the fact you blame the cops but not the people doing the dumb things.

Maybe it's Darwinism at work here.
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Maybe it is. What I'm blaming, BTW, is the response protocol. If, again, you'd take the time to read.
 
Ikari said:
Maybe it is. What I'm blaming, BTW, is the response protocol. If, again, you'd take the time to read.
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And there was nothing wrong with it. If you are told to put your hands up and instead grab a weapon (fake or not), you are putting YOURSELF at risk. The cops have a right to defend themselves.

If instead we have a whole bunch of people that insist on pointing weapons at cops (fake or not) then they are at fault fully.
 
TheNextEra said:
And there was nothing wrong with it. If you are told to put your hands up and instead grab a weapon (fake or not), you are putting YOURSELF at risk. The cops have a right to defend themselves.

If instead we have a whole bunch of people that insist on pointing weapons at cops (fake or not) then they are at fault fully.
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No, action requires the officer pulling the trigger, and individual is responsible for their own actions. The data that is measurable is the number of kids shot dead by cops because they have fake guns. The cause is the threat assessment taught to the police. There are far too many little kids being killed by cops, ergo the threat assessment cannot sufficiently take in information and data to properly assess threat and must be revamped.
 
TheNextEra said:
And there was nothing wrong with it. If you are told to put your hands up and instead grab a weapon (fake or not), you are putting YOURSELF at risk. The cops have a right to defend themselves.

If instead we have a whole bunch of people that insist on pointing weapons at cops (fake or not) then they are at fault fully.
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I don't want to say this kid was dumb or stupid, obviously no matter what it was a fatal mistake in the end, but for all we know he was terrified and had the thought that maybe he just needed to show them it was just a toy. Maybe he was reaching for it and they said to put his arms in the air and in the split second he was going to put his arms up they shot. We don't know the time frame so maybe he did make a really bad decision or maybe the cops did. Until more information is known it is kind of speculation.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Winchester said:
What's fail is today's societal fear and police responses to kids playing on playgrounds. Jesus we used to bring cap guns to the school playground all the time to play cops and robbers. No one called the police and no kids got shot.
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I'm guessing though that when you grew up kids were not actually shooting up schools as much as they are now?
Tough spot for the Police I have to say, given the amount of school/ public shootings there seem to be in the US.
 
Ikari said:
Well more than lethal options.



That's why it's less-than-lethal. And yes, they do have probabilities of causing damage and death, just remarkably reduced probabilities than that of a bullet. I'm asking for restraint in government force used against its own citizens. Government is limited.
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Dead dumbass, live cop. At the end of the day, that's all that matters to me.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Dead dumbass, live cop. At the end of the day, that's all that matters to me.
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Dead kid, jubilant authoratarian; that's what you have.
 
Ikari said:
Dead kid, jubilant authoratarian; that's what you have.
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You accuse me of deflection, then you flat out lie. Nice. At no time am I jubilant at the death of another.
See, that's the difference of actually doing that job. And being an armchair QB like yourself.
 
Ikari said:
No, action requires the officer pulling the trigger, and individual is responsible for their own actions. The data that is measurable is the number of kids shot dead by cops because they have fake guns. The cause is the threat assessment taught to the police. There are far too many little kids being killed by cops, ergo the threat assessment cannot sufficiently take in information and data to properly assess threat and must be revamped.
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No, the cause is the kids pointing the weapons at the police or grabbing them when they are told otherwise. THAT is the cause.

What is needed is for parents to teach their children BASIC common sense.
 
americanwoman said:
I don't want to say this kid was dumb or stupid, obviously no matter what it was a fatal mistake in the end, but for all we know he was terrified and had the thought that maybe he just needed to show them it was just a toy. Maybe he was reaching for it and they said to put his arms in the air and in the split second he was going to put his arms up they shot. We don't know the time frame so maybe he did make a really bad decision or maybe the cops did. Until more information is known it is kind of speculation.
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True, we can speculate all we want. However, what I don't speculate is that given these circumstances in the article I don't put the fault at the cops.
 
Ikari said:
Dead kid, jubilant authoratarian; that's what you have.
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Since Crue Cab was not jubilant, I give you your own quote:

Is hyperbole and intellectual dishonesty the only methods through which you can argue? It's pathetic and sad.
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CRUE CAB said:
You accuse me of deflection, then you flat out lie. Nice. At no time am I jubilant at the death of another.
See, that's the difference of actually doing that job. And being an armchair QB like yourself.
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Your post I quoted was indeed jubilant about the consequence. Not a lie when you say it.

Another deflection.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Oh, sorry. I didn't know you didn't know what jubilant meant.
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In this context, that you are quite pleased and happy with the result. Which, by your post, you most certainly seem to be.
 
Ikari said:
In this context, that you are quite pleased and happy with the result. Which, by your post, you most certainly seem to be.
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Pleased? No. Happy? No. Satisfied that the actions of the officer as I know it? Yes. Does an investigation from a independent agency need to be done? Yes.
Does that fill in all your blanks?
 
Ikari said:
Your post I quoted was indeed jubilant about the consequence. Not a lie when you say it.

Another deflection.
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Again Crue cab stated the kid was a dumbass and the cop was alive. Sorry, but that is hardly jubilant about the consequence. Yes, your comment was both a lie and hyperbole rolled up into one.
 
Ikari said:
Your post I quoted was indeed jubilant about the consequence. Not a lie when you say it.

Another deflection.
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Oh, so you saw my happy dance? Gee I thought I was in private. Sorry. Last time I killed a 12 year old, I was so excited I spiked my gun. Dang thing went off and shot out my tire.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

TheNextEra said:
The issue with Ferguson was there were two sides of the story and one of them was he put his hand up and then was shot. That is what fueled Ferguson. This isn't the same thing, yet.

Now if someone comes forward and claims that the cops shot him and the kid didn't reach for the gun, then it could be an issue.
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It won't be an issue if it is Black killing Black. That gets a pass.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

I am so tired of seeing stories like this. Some sort of education program needs to be put in place for kids in elementary school. A local cop can come in and teach it. Basically the class should be how to act when a police officer approaches, what they are looking at, what makes them nervous, etc. I think they would help. It sucks not only for this kids family but the cop, his family, and all LEO's in general. It makes their job that much harder. I will say though, the kid was a threat judging by his actions. If I had been in that situation, I think I would have shot as well
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Goshin said:
And most of our toy guns did NOT have orange safety tips either.
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Which really doesn't matter, criminals can paint real guns to have orange safety tips too and have done so in the past. If you try to pull a gun on cops, any gun, no matter what color it is, you deserve to get shot.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

MarineTpartier said:
I am so tired of seeing stories like this. Some sort of education program needs to be put in place for kids in elementary school. A local cop can come in and teach it. Basically the class should be how to act when a police officer approaches, what they are looking at, what makes them nervous, etc. I think they would help. It sucks not only for this kids family but the cop, his family, and all LEO's in general. It makes their job that much harder. I will say though, the kid was a threat judging by his actions. If I had been in that situation, I think I would have shot as well
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Lefty parents would burn the school down. The NRA has a well developed program. Teachers and parents go nuts when the issue brought up.
 
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