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Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police

Re: The next Ferguson ?

VanceMack said:
You dont know dammit about what 'kids do', especially THIS PARTICULAR kid when confronted with something he knew he was doing that was wrong. There are far too many cases where people in general do stupid things when confronted. Who knows...maybe he was reaching for it to throw it away. But presuming and believing the worst about a law enfrcement officer in the face of a confrontation with a kid you KNOW has demonstrated some really stupid choices...well...thats just projecting your won personal bias into a belief. Again...all good...but it doesnt make much sense.
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IF he was reaching to throw it away then that makes the cop even more in the wrong... shooting without knowing intent of action.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Tettsuo said:
If he's not mentally handicapped, I'm going to call BS on it.

This isn't the first time cops straight up lied or seriously stretched the truth about a bad shooting.

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This MIGHT NOT BE one of those cases. Or it MIGHT BE. You are also projecting personal bias creating a 'belief' about something we know little about.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Bodhisattva said:
IF he was reaching to throw it away then that makes the cop even more in the wrong... shooting without knowing intent of action.
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Horse****. When someone is reaching for a gun, it is illogical and unreasonable to assess intent before acting. When you are given a command to freeze and then raise your hands, THATS what you do.

Is it easy to see how that MIGHT have been the kids response?
 
CRUE CAB said:
So, what went down all knowing?
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What I know is a kid is dead and shouldn't be.

I have find it seriously difficult to believe the kid went for a toy gun when a cop pointing his gun at him.

That's my opinion on the matter. It's same opinion that cops were too eager to fire on Amadou Diallo. I really doubt he was pulling out his wallet in an attempt to kill the police. Pulling a fake gun is just as incomprehensible as pulling out a wallet.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

lifeisshort said:
All true but if it was a white cop Katy bar the door. In Ferguson it was a guy that just robbed a store and beat a cop as he tried to get his gun. A 12 year old kid in a playground with a play gun is going to cause a riot if a white cop shot him.
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So predictably, the whole thread as an excuse for CPC.
 
Tettsuo said:
What I know is a kid is dead and shouldn't be.

I have find it seriously difficult to believe the kid went for a toy gun when a cop pointing his gun at him.

That's my opinion on the matter. It's same opinion that cops were too eager to fire on Amadou Diallo. I really doubt he was pulling out his wallet in an attempt to kill the police. Pulling a fake gun is just as incomprehensible as pulling out a wallet.
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Begins and ends with the parents. Sad he is dead, but mom and dad should have instilled some common sense.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

VanceMack said:
There are far too many cases where people in general do stupid things when confronted.
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Quite so, and America is getting dumber by the generation.
 
Tettsuo said:
What I know is a kid is dead and shouldn't be.

I have find it seriously difficult to believe the kid went for a toy gun when a cop pointing his gun at him.

That's my opinion on the matter. It's same opinion that cops were too eager to fire on Amadou Diallo. I really doubt he was pulling out his wallet in an attempt to kill the police. Pulling a fake gun is just as incomprehensible as pulling out a wallet.
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If that is your basis for making a judgement then you are "right" no matter what anyone else says. It is quite easy to say, after the fact, that neither a toy gun nor a wallet posed a "real" threat. The advantage of hindsight was not availed to those that said "put pour hands up where I can see them" and then saw the person reach for something (at least partially) concealed in their clothing instead.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

VanceMack said:
This MIGHT NOT BE one of those cases. Or it MIGHT BE. You are also projecting personal bias creating a 'belief' about something we know little about.
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What I'm using is logic. Unless that kid was challenged, he knew he didn't have anything but BBs in that toy. He knew he presented no danger to the cops. I also know the cops don't automatically shoot anyone that withdraws a gun and waves it around.

 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

VanceMack said:
Horse****. When someone is reaching for a gun, it is illogical and unreasonable to assess intent before acting. When you are given a command to freeze and then raise your hands, THATS what you do.

Is it easy to see how that MIGHT have been the kids response?
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The fact is that a kid had a toy and was shot and killed... police are shooting first and seeking answers after, and then covering it up. It is sad that we can't trust the cops...
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

VanceMack said:
Horse****. When someone is reaching for a gun, it is illogical and unreasonable to assess intent before acting. When you are given a command to freeze and then raise your hands, THATS what you do.

Is it easy to see how that MIGHT have been the kids response?
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Correct. Looking back over the posts in this thread that use the terms might, may, could, to explain this kids actions. And because of these indefinite terms the cops should have acted differently. One poster advocated letting the kid get off a shot in order to be sure that the gun was real and loaded.

The reality, if we are to believe the available data at this early date, what we do know is that the kid was brandishing what appeared to be a firearm on a playground and ignored or refused a lawful order, and got shot for his trouble.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Begins and ends with the parents. Sad he is dead, but mom and dad should have instilled some common sense.
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Or maybe a trigger happy cop could have shown more wisdom and restraint...
 
I'd be willing to bet that 99.999% of 12 year olds running around with guns are doing so with toy guns. For the police to assume they're dealing with the .001% case is unconscionable.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Tettsuo said:
What I'm using is logic. Unless that kid was challenged, he knew he didn't have anything but BBs in that toy. He knew he presented no danger to the cops. I also know the cops don't automatically shoot anyone that withdraws a gun and waves it around.

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You DO know that when you seek videos and stories to prove your position while ignoring the countless other reports out there you are engaging in the WORST kind of confirmation bias....right?
 
Gaius46 said:
I'd be willing to bet that 99.999% of 12 year olds running around with guns are doing so with toy guns. For the police to assume they're dealing with the .001% case is unconscionable.
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Pull on the uniform and pin on the badge and do the job then let us know how it goes.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Bodhisattva said:
The fact is that a kid had a toy and was shot and killed... police are shooting first and seeking answers after, and then covering it up. It is sad that we can't trust the cops...
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Woah...who said anything about covering something up? If the kid reached for a BB Gun there is no coverup. Its a good shoot. Oh...wait...a LEGIT shoot.

Its sad you cant trust 'the cops'. DO you have an equal difficulty trusting 'the black folks'? You know...some of them DO really bad things...
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Fake or real, this dumb kid should not have been waving a gun around and then go grabbing for it when the cops tell him to put his hands up.

He's dead...it's his own damn fault.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

VanceMack said:
Woah...who said anything about covering something up? If the kid reached for a BB Gun there is no coverup. Its a good shoot. Oh...wait...a LEGIT shoot.

Its sad you cant trust 'the cops'. DO you have an equal difficulty trusting 'the black folks'? You know...some of them DO really bad things...
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I see that you have to resort to pathetic ad homs... maybe you are a racist, who knows?
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Roadvirus said:
Fake or real, this dumb kid should not have been waving a gun around and then go grabbing for it when the cops tell him to put his hands up.

He's dead...it's his own damn fault.
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No, it isn't his fault. The gun was a toy. The fault is 100% the cops.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Pull on the uniform and pin on the badge and do the job then let us know how it goes.
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Personally, I am too smart to be a beat cop.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

VanceMack said:
You DO know that when you seek videos and stories to prove your position while ignoring the countless other reports out there you are engaging in the WORST kind of confirmation bias....right?
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Doesn't mean I'm wrong though.

Bottom line for me is, the entire claim that the boy went for the gun sees VERY illogical. I don't need evidence to make that claim, just like I don't need evidence to say it's very difficult to believe Satan forced the cop to shoot. I'm mean, I wasn't there, right? I wasn't in his head, so I don't know for sure.

At some point we have to just use our own logic. We don't need a video to think for us, particularly in situations like this where we have a government agency that has on more than one occasion made up or stretched information to exonerate their own.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Bodhisattva said:
No, it isn't his fault. The gun was a toy. The fault is 100% the cops.
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Wrong, in this situation there is precious little the cop could do to distinguish a real weapon from a bb gun as the orange tip had been removed. Not saying the kid should deserved to die, but that bright orange tip is there for a reason.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Roadvirus said:
Fake or real, this dumb kid should not have been waving a gun around and then go grabbing for it when the cops tell him to put his hands up.

He's dead...it's his own damn fault.
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He's 12!! Holy crap.... you can't even be 12 and act stupid.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Bodhisattva said:
I see that you have to resort to pathetic ad homs... maybe you are a racist, who knows?
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:lamo How is what you are doing any different than any other bigot that presumes blacks must be criminals because some are?
 
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