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Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

You are right about one thing. I am flinging all the core arguments of what I think is right and just only to see it rejected by some entity i cannot fathom or reason with.

All of your "core arguments" involve disregarding the law.

I can not understand what conservatives consider immigration policy. Do they see the hundreds of undocumented children in some way that I don't? Yes they broke the law, but do conservatives not care about the fact that these kids are victims too? Where is the empathy? The compassion? The mercy?


I cannot understand what makes people ignorant to suffering, and that is when I contemplate darker motivations behind conservative logic.

Look...if you don't agree with the law...if you think it's too harsh...then change it. We have a process for doing that. Follow the process. But don't just disregard the law because you don't like it. (this is as much a message to Obama as it is to you)
 
I cannot understand what makes people ignorant to suffering, and that is when I contemplate darker motivations behind conservative logic.

After re-reading your post, I decided that this deserves an individual response.

You shouldn't assume that, just because someone respects and wants to uphold the law, they are ignorant of suffering. That just isn't true.

Here is an example:

Colorado, essentially a conservative State despite the Democrat's success in getting elected to the State Legislature, recently legalized marijuana. One of the reasons it passed a vote by the people is because of the great number of people who were sent to prison for marijuana usage offenses. Marijuana was legalized with the help of MANY conservatives...including myself...who thought the law was too harsh and just plain bad. But guess what...we did it the right way. We changed the law. We didn't just disregard it.
 
let me just ask a simple question:

if someone is stopped by law enforcement [violation], are you against asking their legal status?

So you want local police officers to enforce federal law?

And here I thought you were all about the separation of powers.
 
So you want local police officers to enforce federal law?

And here I thought you were all about the separation of powers.

if officers discover illegals they are supposed to turn them over to ice, what do you wish them to do let them go?

if i detain you as an officer i can ask you questions, look at your i.d. it is within my power as an office.
 
But you have suggested that they not only do that, but also go looking for them.

I don't think ernst barkmann suggested that police "go looking for them".

sangha, haven't you learned to not apply your bias-caused assumptions to your posts yet?
 
i don't believe there is anything in the constitution, about asking a questions.

If you are stopped by an officer, you are being detained, even if it is just to answer questions. The Constitution forbids that without reasonable suspicion. Looking like a "Mexican" is not grounds for detaining anybody.
 
Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration



In contrast, last time the GOP shut down the government:

Poll: Major damage to GOP after shutdown, and broad dissatisfaction with government - The Washington Post



Polls: Shutdown nightmare for Republicans - Tal Kopan - POLITICO.com
Poll shows Republicans taking blame for government shutdown - Los Angeles Times
Boomerang! Poll Reveals GOP's Government Shutdown Bolstered Obamacare's Popularity By 20% - Forbes
Poll: Government Shutdown Damages GOP - Business Insider

I'm sure that this time, a government shutdown will be positive for the GOPs image. Flight attendants, PR appointees and HS students will support this and it will give the GOP an even bigger majority in 2016. Using the shutdown option will also bring in support from Independents. They seem to be in favor of such things.

The funny thing in the last GOP government shutdown was watching them and all their lemming followers regurgitate that it was somehow Obama that was shutting down the government. What's funnier is that yesterday I saw Jindal already starting this double speak and saying that it would be Obama that would shut down the government if it happened this time as well.

If they want to shut it down, fine. Do it. But don't be such gutless wenches about it that you can't own up to your own damn actions.

NOTE the phrasing right now. WE may shut down the government because of Obama's actions. As it get's closer they will disavow the "WE" part and blame Obama for their actions. Again.
 
If you are stopped by an officer, you are being detained, even if it is just to answer questions. The Constitution forbids that without reasonable suspicion. Looking like a "Mexican" is not grounds for detaining anybody.

if you stop someone for just looking like Mexican, that is unlawful.

however if i do detain you for an infraction, i can ask you questions, you are not compelled to answer... but i can ask.

where is reasonable suspicion in the Constitution?
 
The implied assumption is that the GOP will shutdown the government. That's not yet happened, and I kinda doubt that's what the GOP leadership will allow to happen, they may not be able to prevent it.

At present, they are only considering it.

Seems that regardless of the situation whenever there's a government shutdown, the rule in DC is to blame the Republicans.

One can only hope that the GOP comes up with something better than this to oppose Obama's unpopular immigration OE plans.

It's only the wacko wing of the Republican Party that is talking about things like shutting down the government and impeachment. McConnell says there will be no government shutdown. Boehner can't control his caucus, but I think McConnell can control his. Shutdown won't happen.
 
It's only the wacko wing of the Republican Party that is talking about things like shutting down the government and impeachment. McConnell says there will be no government shutdown. Boehner can't control his caucus, but I think McConnell can control his. Shutdown won't happen.

I'm inclined to agree, and am glad that some sense of statesmanship has reasserted itself in the congress.
 
if you stop someone for just looking like Mexican, that is unlawful.

however if i do detain you for an infraction, i can ask you questions, you are not compelled to answer... but i can ask.

where is reasonable suspicion in the Constitution?

Under those circumstances, the officer can ask any question he wants. The suspect, however, is not required to answer it.
 
It's only the wacko wing of the Republican Party that is talking about things like shutting down the government and impeachment. McConnell says there will be no government shutdown. Boehner can't control his caucus, but I think McConnell can control his. Shutdown won't happen.
If the House and the Senate pass spending bills and Obama vetoes them because he doesn't like them, isn't he the one shutting down government?
 
If the House and the Senate pass spending bills and Obama vetoes them because he doesn't like them, isn't he the one shutting down government?

Nope. If the Republicans pass bills that they know in advance will be vetoed, then they are not acting in good faith.
 
Oh I bring it up because some people are able to distinguish the real criminals are.

And it is not about bad press.

Presbyterian church in Arizona offers sanctuary to undocumented migrant




And here is the document in question.

http://www.ice.gov/doclib/secure-communities/pdf/prosecutorial-discretion-memo.pdf

Actually, no, the ones mentioned are not able. Here's the problem:

She said the church chose Loreto because she is a good example of a category of undocumented immigrant specifically made a low priority in a 2011 memo issued by then-ICE Director John Morton.

This goes back to the Executive Branch not enforcing the law.
 
how can that be?.... because the senate in good faith has not taken them up for a vote...Reid as tabled 387 bills

That's because Dems controlled the Senate. Now watch as the Republicans do the same. It's really both parties at fault, but if the Senate cannot pass a bill that can be signed, then Congress will take the hit on the fallout again if the government shuts down. There is one remedy for the GOP. That is to win the presidency in 2016, if they can. Then there will truly be a mandate.
 
How do you base your initial suspicions on who is a illiegal though? The answer is that most people base their initial suspicions on visual information, which can be biased and variable.

Just quit already, you wander from one pop up point to the next. When folks do get pulled over they provide license and insurance. If the license is from a state where illegals cannot get them, not likely to ask the question. If the license is from a state that allows such for illegals, then they should be asked.

And btw, if police in southern AZ were pulling over every brown person they saw, with their staffing, just can't be done. Like looking for a needle in a needle stack.
 
Nope. If the Republicans pass bills that they know in advance will be vetoed, then they are not acting in good faith.
That's absurd. That gives the president complete control of the legislative process. What if he is acting in bad faith and demanding things he knows in advance they wont pass? If the congress passes bills to fund the government and the president vetoes them, he has shut down the government. That is just obvious.
 
That's because Dems controlled the Senate. Now watch as the Republicans do the same. It's really both parties at fault, but if the Senate cannot pass a bill that can be signed, then Congress will take the hit on the fallout again if the government shuts down. There is one remedy for the GOP. That is to win the presidency in 2016, if they can. Then there will truly be a mandate.

i will be the first to say both parties are at fault.

however this party of "no", really fits the senate, because they have almost nothing in 2 years, as 387 bills stand idle.

of coarse myself the less government does the happier i am.
 
That's absurd. That gives the president complete control of the legislative process. What if he is acting in bad faith and demanding things he knows in advance they wont pass? If the congress passes bills to fund the government and the president vetoes them, he has shut down the government. That is just obvious.

Sure, if Obama made unreasonable demands, then it would be his fault. However, if the GOP makes the same kind of unreasonable demands, then it will be their fault. Logic 101 here.
 
Just quit already, you wander from one pop up point to the next. When folks do get pulled over they provide license and insurance. If the license is from a state where illegals cannot get them, not likely to ask the question. If the license is from a state that allows such for illegals, then they should be asked.

And btw, if police in southern AZ were pulling over every brown person they saw, with their staffing, just can't be done. Like looking for a needle in a needle stack.

story for you..i was involved in a wreck, on i-10 in AZ, as i wrecked rubber-neckers where starting on the other side of the highway, which caused an accident with a white van, suddenly several Mexicans jump out of the van on the highway and ran......do you think they were illegals? duh"

this kind of thing happens here, and can be common, i guess some have no understanding of the southwest.
 
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i will be the first to say both parties are at fault.

however this party of "no", really fits the senate, because they have almost nothing in 2 years, as 387 bills stand idle.

of coarse myself the less government does the happier i am.

Not me. I don't want any more bridge collapses. I don't want sink holes on our highways. I don't want veterans waiting for treatment any longer than they already are. I don't want science research stopped. I don't want a halt to immigration enforcement. There are a lot of things I don't want to happen that can happen if the government shuts down. I used to be strongly libertarian until I realized that too little government is just as bad as too much government. I still have libertarian leanings but Randism and Anarcho-Capitalism are not among them.
 
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