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US hostage Kassig 'killed by IS'

US Conservative said:
Not really, but I also recognize that Bush is gone 6 years, and we have a weak leader at the wheel.
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You should also recognize that Obama was gifted with a huge pile of dung left over by Bush... Afghanistan, Iraq and an economy in complete shambles. The Obama Administration certainly made their share of mistakes, but nothing short of Jesus could have managed to wholly fix what a mass **** up they inherited.
 
US Conservative said:
And Reagan was no progressive lunatic like Hitler and Stalin.
Well you did pick a robot for your avatar, so...
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'rolleyes'...my avatar is called a joke...jeez...that's your best comeback?

I guess so.


Now are you going to answer my question or not.
 
Middleground said:
You should also recognize that Obama was gifted with a huge pile of dung left over by Bush... Afghanistan, Iraq and an economy in complete shambles. The Obama Administration certainly made their share of mistakes, but nothing short of Jesus could have managed to wholly fix what a mass **** up they inherited.
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Both Afghanistan and Iraq were victories when BHO took office. He threw away the latter. Jury is still out on the former.
 
Middleground said:
You should also recognize that Obama was gifted with a huge pile of dung left over by Bush... Afghanistan, Iraq and an economy in complete shambles. The Obama Administration certainly made their share of mistakes, but nothing short of Jesus could have managed to wholly fix what a mass **** up they inherited.
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I disagree, and your continued making of excuses wont change that.
 
Texmex said:
On second thought, I agree with you. I do think you've forgotten more than he knows.
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That must have taken all of what? 3 seconds to come up with? Much like the other poster... Why don't you come up with a real argument and stop wasting my time.
 
Grant said:
The US may have the strongest military in the world but the have an anti-military media which leads to a largely uncertain and confused public turning in on themselves. And of course it is not a matter of how many decades the US is prepared to accept but how long they will be under attack by terrorists. That is out of American hands.

Obama could not possibly 'end the war in Iraq' as he claimed, and had his followers believing. Islamists will simply continue the war militarily and other fronts and, of course, as OBL said, the people will follow the stronger horse. We can see why ISIS recruiting is up.

Everyone outside the USA understands Obama is weak and the subject of derision, and that spells long term problems for the American people and all the western democracies. As much as many Americans would rightly want others to take over world leadership it is quite impossible. There is no one else.
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All we need to do is spread the word that ISIS consists mainly of Conservative Republicans. The regime attacks Conservatives with energy and zeal. The Islamofascist supporter on the golf course is never likely to attack his psychological allies with a goal of defeating them.
 
"This is is a job for the Army supported by the Air Force. Before that happens we need to determine what is in this nation's interest.

We can stop our attack on Americans in this country by shutting down the Soviet-style EPA. We can increase our energy production here so we have less need to be involved in the Middle East. We can protect our electric grid from ground attack.

And we can choose to leave Americans who have been captured by terrorist organizations to be tortured and beheaded.

It is up to us."
Middleground said:
Or the US can chose from this time forward to fix the errors made in the Middle East and eventually win back the trust and admiration of it's people.
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How?

Drill here. Drill now. Build pipelines. Stop destroying the coal industry. Build more nuclear power plants.

Anything else?
 
Hatuey said:
That's the gist of the issue isn't it? A sizeable percentage of the Republican electorate were all in favor of withdrawing in 2011.

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Three in Four Americans Back Obama on Iraq Withdrawal

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In 2008, Republicans refused avoided the Iraq war like the plague because they knew the American populace was against it. Now they're in support of going back to fix the cluster**** started by the Bush administration? Seems like there are a lot of fairweather Republican supporters of the Iraq war. However, there isn't much Obama can do about what's going on in Iraq. Most Arab countries are useless, the coalition of the willing peaced out as far back as 2007 and Americans will support going back to Iraq as long as the caskets aren't piling up. Once they do, they'll believe we need to get out again. :shrug:
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Everybody is lost. They dont know what side to take until after he has actually acted.
 
Fenton said:
If you can't objectively criticize bad foreign policy ( Obama pulling ALL American Military assets out of Iraq against the better judgement of those around him who knew better ) because it contradicts with your Political affiliation then maybe you should stay put in the Partisan section of the forum.
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Bad foreign policy is setting up a house of cards in Iraq in the first place. A house of cards in a hurricane.
 
Middleground said:
You should also recognize that Obama was gifted with a huge pile of dung left over by Bush... Afghanistan, Iraq and an economy in complete shambles. The Obama Administration certainly made their share of mistakes, but nothing short of Jesus could have managed to wholly fix what a mass **** up they inherited.
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If he wasn't up to the job he should not have asked for it.
 
US Conservative said:
Poor poor Obama is just a slave to politics, isn't he? :doh

Americans have no confidence in Obama when it comes to terrorism, look at polling. Look at the election week before last.
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He could be a rock star doing a great job and I would place money on you feeling the same way about him. Dont worry...you have lots of company. thats how most democrats responded to Bush.

Im not a 'fan'...but at some point you have to look past the politics and act. Look at what many are suggesting here. Obama is wrong for engaging, he isnt engaging enough, no one would support him if we engaged more, and I guess we'll have to wait til the next president is elected.

Really? So...rather than support proactive measures being taken right now it would be preferable to do nothing for 2 years?

I dont think Obama handled the Iraqi troop withdrawal well. I think Bush did a great job with the war against Iraq and Afghanistan but did a lousy job of negotiating the peace. Now what?
 
Misterveritis said:
All we need to do is spread the word that ISIS consists mainly of Conservative Republicans. The regime attacks Conservatives with energy and zeal. The Islamofascist supporter on the golf course is never likely to attack his psychological allies with a goal of defeating them.
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He already said we cling bitterly to guns and religion. This wont be much of a stretch.
 
Misterveritis said:
If he wasn't up to the job he should not have asked for it.
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Seems to me like he fixed just about everything except for the Middle East, which is not America's to fix.
 
VanceMack said:
He could be a rock star doing a great job and I would place money on you feeling the same way about him. Dont worry...you have lots of company. thats how most democrats responded to Bush.

Im not a 'fan'...but at some point you have to look past the politics and act. Look at what many are suggesting here. Obama is wrong for engaging, he isnt engaging enough, no one would support him if we engaged more, and I guess we'll have to wait til the next president is elected.

Really? So...rather than support proactive measures being taken right now it would be preferable to do nothing for 2 years?

I dont think Obama handled the Iraqi troop withdrawal well. I think Bush did a great job with the war against Iraq and Afghanistan but did a lousy job of negotiating the peace. Now what?
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What now? We focus on what NEEDS to be done, and thats boots on the ground, not a dog an pony show of airstrikes that aren't definitive.
In medicine, you treat the cause of the problems-and the symptoms resolve.
ISIS is a symptom of a weak leader who WONT act. Said another way, this dog wont hunt.
 
VanceMack said:
Everybody is lost. They dont know what side to take until after he has actually acted.
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I know what side I'm on. Getting us into Iraq is and will always be bull****. However, in our third intervention, it's now obvious that - deposing Saddam left a void (like Cheney predicted in the 90s), that void was filled by insurgents from the beginning (predicted by Cheney again) and going in a third time is likely to turn Iraq into ... well.. another ****ty war we fight thanks to the rehashed white man's burden so many neoconservatives have.

Iraq is not like Korea, Germany or like Japan. Those countries weren't based on tribal factions and a borderline psychotic adherence to religious beliefs. For the most part, they were nations based on laws before we gave them democratic rule. Why do you think China is communist today? It's a country founded on strongman rule. It is a country where democracy and discussion was second to imperial rule and the Mandate of Heaven.

Going into Iraq a 3rd time will be a mistake if we go at it alone and the way it looks, that's how it's going to be. Unless we can shore up support from other nations, we're looking at thousands of American men and women dying for nothing other than the same neoconservative bull**** we've been dealt for nearly 15 years.
 
US Conservative said:
What now? We focus on what NEEDS to be done, and thats boots on the ground, not a dog an pony show of airstrikes that aren't definitive.
In medicine, you treat the cause of the problems-and the symptoms resolve.
ISIS is a symptom of a weak leader who WONT act. Said another way, this dog wont hunt.
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Conservatives have no plan, and neocons have an even worse plan. You could kill every ISIS member and it wouldn't solve a damned thing. It would actually cause more extremism, and promote the belief to Islamic nations that America will take care of their problems if they ever get out of hand.

You're an enabler.
 
Hatuey said:
I know what side I'm on. Getting us into Iraq is and will always be bull****. However, in our third intervention, it's now obvious that - deposing Saddam left a void (like Cheney predicted in the 90s), that void was filled by insurgents from the beginning (predicted by Cheney again) and going in a third time is likely to turn Iraq into ... well.. another ****ty war we fight thanks to the rehashed white man's burden so many neoconservatives have.

Iraq is not like Korea, Germany or like Japan. Those countries weren't based on tribal factions and a borderline psychotic adherence to religious beliefs. For the most part, they were nations based on laws before we gave them democratic rule. Why do you think China is communist today? It's a country founded on strongman rule. It is a country where democracy and discussion was second to imperial rule and the Mandate of Heaven.

Going into Iraq a 3rd time will be a mistake if we go at it alone and the way it looks, that's how it's going to be. Unless we can shore up support from other nations, we're looking at thousands of American men and women dying for nothing other than the same neoconservative bull**** we've been dealt for nearly 15 years.
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We would not have to go back if BHO had not thrown away GWB's Iraq victory. Now we have to try something difficult to recover what was once already in our hands.
 
Amadeus said:
Seems to me like he fixed just about everything except for the Middle East, which is not America's to fix.
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"Fixed" might be the right word for it.
Nothing is fixed. Everything is broken in a way that pleases the authoritarian statists.
 
Jack Hays said:
We would not have to go back if BHO had not thrown away GWB's Iraq victory. Now we have to try something difficult to recover what was once already in our hands.
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Ah, rehashing the same old lie. Who signed the withdrawal agreement of 2008? Thanks.
 
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