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US Sailors Victims of Videotaped Attack in Istanbul

rathi said:
Why don't you name the acts of international terrorism that Yemeni citizens have been committing?
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The US was targeting Yemeni members of al-Qaeda and Taliban and other terror organizations, hence terrorists.
These organizations have committed international crimes, being a member of such organization means you are responsible for its actions.

Drug cartels are responsible for thousands of murders in the U.S. and even more in Mexico. International terrorism kills far less people.
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I have no doubts but it's not about who kills more, it's about legitimacy to attack in a foreign nation which you falsely claimed the US doesn't have, I've already proven you wrong in comparing between the American attacks on Afghanistan and a Mexican attack on US soil.

Since when have Yemeni's started attacking the united states?
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Since they became members of an organization responsible for the murder of thousands of Americans.

The person operating the drone I mentioned was probably part of the CIA, not a soldier. Nonetheless, you have been unable to answer how shooting a missile into a cafe can be anything but deliberately targeting civilians. Maybe they only really wanted to kill one guy and didn't care about the rest, but they knew what would happen before the pulled the trigger.
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All the more reason that your case is weak.
I already said that this specific incident could be an act of crime and it could be that the one who operated this specific drone needs to be investigated and punished (again I'm not familiar with the incident so I don't know what actually happened), but that has nothing to do with your claim about American soldiers targeting civilians which is simply untrue and is really demonizing American soldiers.
 
Wiggen said:
But you claimed he did want to do it, and did so knowingly. I'm getting the feeling from reading your posts that you really don't like your own country very much, and like nothing better than posting how evil it is. Which is OK, I guess. There are a lot of American servicemen, past and present, who have given you that right.
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I claimed he knew that innocent people were going to die before he pulled the trigger. They were clearly visible, the kill radius of his weapon is well known and the operator wasn't facing the combat stress of a soldier on the ground. That is undeniable.

As to why he killed them, I doubt it was out of malice. I think he was just following orders and was willing to sacrifice to innocent to complete them.
 
DiAnna said:
US Sailors Victims of Videotaped Attack in Istanbul - ABC News

Three U.S. sailors were assaulted today by about 20 people on the streets of Istanbul, Turkey, and the assault was videotaped and then posted on the internet, the Navy said.The American embassy said the videotaped assault on the sailors was "appalling."

The Navy said the sailors were on leave from the destroyer USS Ross when about 20 people who claimed to be from the Turkish Youth Union began "verbally and physically assaulting the sailors."[/FONT][/COLOR]

The video shows one of the Turks telling the Americans, "We define you as murderers and killers and want you to get out of our land."

The sailors were then shoved and had things thrown at them. Several of the Turkish men tried to grab one American sailor and white bags were produced which they tried to put over the sailors' head while other Turks chanted, "Go home, Yankee." The sailors wrenched themselves free."

WTF? Turkey is one of our NATO allies, but they allow a cowardly gang of thugs to attack three US sailors? Where the hell were the Turkish police? These sailors were dressed in civilian clothes, yet they were deliberately rooted out, roughed up, had bags shoved over their heads, then they were chased by nearly two dozen of these assholes. And the Turkish government says..... *crickets*.....

Why is Turkey even a part of NATO anyway? It refuses to allow US use of NATO bases in Turkey, it thwarts the US at every turn. Since when does Turkey have the right to pick and choose which NATO countries are "allowed" to use NATO bases, most of which were paid for in large part by US funds. This really chaps my hide.
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as far as l know Turkey lets USA use its own bases located in TURKEY.because every base already belongs to USA
 
Wiggen said:
Perhaps, but that attitude is fostered and encouraged by the Turkish government. And there is a special level of hatred reserved for America.

ÖMER TA
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Good article, thanks. However, the fact that dislike of America spiked from around 50% to 80% after the Iraq Invasion indicates that anti-Americanism is not really ingrained in the culture -- even if political opportunists like to play into the hate for short-term gain.
 
Medusa said:
it is called revenge.yankees had done the same thing to our soldiers in northern ıraq in 2003


now yankees are thugs ?:confused:
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Two wrongs don't make a right.That american guy didn't do anything wrong.

Everbody should protest whatever they want but in a civilized way.
 
Apocalypse said:
The US was targeting Yemeni members of al-Qaeda and Taliban and other terror organizations, hence terrorists.
These organizations have committed international crimes, being a member of such organization means you are responsible for its actions.
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Their are group in Afghanistan who sell drugs and kill people, they are terrorists. They are groups in America and Mexico who sell drugs and kill people, but they aren't terrorists, because you say so.

I have no doubts but it's not about who kills more, it's about legitimacy to attack in a foreign nation which you falsely claimed the US doesn't have, I've already proven you wrong in comparing between the American attacks on Afghanistan and a Mexican attack on US soil.
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You have proved nothing. You have zero consistency in your logic, you just think if you arbitrarily call someone a terrorist it has any kind of meaning.

Since they became members of an organization responsible for the murder of thousands of Americans.
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How many Yemeni's were behind 9/11 again?

All the more reason that your case is weak.
I already said that this specific incident could be an act of crime and it could be that the one who operated this specific drone needs to be investigated and punished (again I'm not familiar with the incident so I don't know what actually happened), but that has nothing to do with your claim about American soldiers targeting civilians which is simply untrue and is really demonizing American soldiers.
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Its not being investigated in the slightest. One of the people killed in that attack was a 16 year old American citizen. His family has tried to file lawsuits, but they have gotten nowhere. I'm not trying to smear American soldiers in general, as most of them time they go to great lengths to minimize damage. That doesn't change the fact that their are deliberate killing of civilians that are ordered and condoned by the highest levels of government.
 
Wiggen said:
They didn't make an international incident of it. The mangy Turks did by videotaping it and putting it on the Internet.
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Whatever. I'm just talking trash because the Navy is geigh. I don't know all the details of the story and frankly don't really care.

The bottom line, for me anyhow, is that this is no big deal.

I fought Turks, I fought Germans, I fought Italians, and I fought the French Foreign Legion one time.

And of course we fought other Americans all the time.

No. Big. Deal.

I don't care if Turks hate Americans, I don't care if the Turkish government isn't combing the streets looking for the goons that beat these guys down, I don't care who started it, I don't care why, and I don't care that these guys were Islamic and "derrrr, look at the religion of peace, derrrr".

Americans in a foreign city fought local nationals and lost.

BFD

I do agree that Turks are mangy people derived from the shallowest end of the gene pool.
 
youngturk said:
Two wrongs don't make a right.That american guy didn't do anything wrong.

Everbody should protest whatever they want but in a civilized way.[/QUOTE

l see that but turkish soldiers didnt do anything either.sorry there is no civility in international arena.
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soot said:
Whatever. I'm just talking trash because the Navy is geigh. I don't know all the details of the story and frankly don't really care.

The bottom line, for me anyhow, is that this is no big deal.

I fought Turks, I fought Germans, I fought Italians, and I fought the French Foreign Legion one time.

And of course we fought other Americans all the time.

No. Big. Dea
I don't care if Turks hate Americans, I don't care if the Turkish government isn't combing the streets looking for the goons that beat these guys down, I don't care who started it, I don't care why, and I don't care that these guys were Islamic and "derrrr, look at the religion of peace, derrrr".

Americans in a foreign city fought local nationals and lost.

BFD

I do agree that Turks are mangy people derived from the shallowest end of the gene pool.
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:confused:
some americans usually believe turks hate americans.they think we have to approve every politics of USA.interest
 
Medusa said:
it is called revenge.yankees had done the same thing to our soldiers in northern ıraq in 2003


now yankees are thugs ?:confused:
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Attacking the local soldiers is just lazy. These random soldiers were not responsible for Iraq, they are just doing their job. Probably the biggest problem in the entire world is that people attack convenient scapegoats instead of their real problem. You have a problem with what happened in Iraq, come to America and beat up Bush. You have a problem with the current government in Turkey, blame Erdogan not the entire country.
 
I do agree that Turks are mangy people derived from the shallowest end of the gene pool.

Medusa said:
youngturk said:
Two wrongs don't make a right.That american guy didn't do anything wrong.

Everbody should protest whatever they want but in a civilized way.[/QUOTE

l see that but turkish soldiers didnt do anything either.sorry there is no civility in international arena.
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Seriously?

"They did something wrong.Let's punish an irrelavent American for that 11 years later!" What a brilliant idea!
You're not different from some people on this thread posting disgusting comments.
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youngturk said:
I do agree that Turks are mangy people derived from the shallowest end of the gene pool.

Medusa said:
Seriously?

"They did something wrong.Let's punish an irrelavent American for that 11 years later!" What a brilliant idea!
You're not different from some people on this thread posting disgusting comments.
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you are not different from some children who claim to be socialist despite their being just a neo liberal imperialist
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rathi said:
Their are group in Afghanistan who sell drugs and kill people, they are terrorists. They are groups in America and Mexico who sell drugs and kill people, but they aren't terrorists, because you say so.
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No, not because I say so, I'm not that powerful.
Words have meanings and the word terrorism does not fit drug related violence.

You have proved nothing. You have zero consistency in your logic, you just think if you arbitrarily call someone a terrorist it has any kind of meaning.
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Absolutely not, I have proven exactly what I claimed I'm proving, which is that the comparison of yours between the Mexican-cartel-American scenario and the American-terror-Afghan scenario to be completely different scenarios and I've given a logical reasoning that you didn't merely fail to debunk but you've failed to refer to at all, so now you claim I've proven nothing? Simply absurd.

And again terrorist is a term with a meaning, apply it where it fits not where it doesn't.

How many Yemeni's were behind 9/11 again?
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This is exactly the kind of meaningless arguments you're promoting, the organization behind 9/11 was al-Qaeda and hence al-Qaeda was attacked, the US didn't attack Saudi Arabia for example because it didn't have al-Qaeda in it. Common sense isn't it? Well apparently it's hard for you to recognize.

Its not being investigated in the slightest. One of the people killed in that attack was a 16 year old American citizen. His family has tried to file lawsuits, but they have gotten nowhere. I'm not trying to smear American soldiers in general, as most of them time they go to great lengths to minimize damage. That doesn't change the fact that their are deliberate killing of civilians that are ordered and condoned by the highest levels of government.
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You do realize that this case, and it's the third time I'm stating this now, has nothing to do with your claim about American soldiers targeting civilians, right?
The US military doesn't give its soldiers any command to deliberately target civilians and you are smearing American soldiers in general when you are claiming that they do get such commands and see them through.
 
Medusa said:
youngturk said:
I do agree that Turks are mangy people derived from the shallowest end of the gene pool.



you are not different from some children who claim to be socialist despite their being just a neo liberal imperialist
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Wow."Neo liberal imperialist" You don't know a thing about me and you're being so childish.

I am leftist myself and in a different student union.But we are doing useful things like educating children and focusing on real problems in our country instead of bullying an American guy.
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Hard Truth said:
So you would allow Turkey to use our bases if they let us use theirs?
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Sure, if it was a NATO Base built by and paid for by NATO for the use of NATO countries. The US paid the lion's share of costs for the NATO Bases in Europe, and the NATO base in Turkey. Turkey has no right to refuse use of that NATO base to the US, a NATO country. Period.
 
Crosscheck said:
No, I don't have any links. But you do not see uniformed members in airports traveling like you did when I was in military in early 70's. Maybe some current members of the military here can comment as to whether they are advised or ordered not to wear uniform.
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There are less of them.
 
youngturk said:
I can definitely say they are not religious or pro-goverment.Erdogan's voters don't protest anything trust me.
The protestors were hardcore leftists.
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They reminded me of American leftists, actually-in how they acted and it was clearly intended to be filmed. Looked like the recent riots in Oakland.
 
youngturk said:
Islamists are only capable of reaching orgasm inside the voting booth they don't protest anything.

Also a fundamental difference between an islamist protest and a leftlist protest : female students.In this case female students were also detained.Islamists don't consider female students as human beings lol
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This is true the dichotomy in Turkey between groups, its like watching videos out of Syria of the various factions of the FSA. The non-islamists dress in colors more and play popular music, with the islamists its monotone clothing and chants.
 
Grant said:
Turkey has requested $4,834,000 in aid for 2015, not a great deal. But if the EU does not allow Turkey entry I don't see their continuing NATO involvement as necessary either. Given recent events with the Kurds. and the rise of Islamism, they are not above suspicion.
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No, and if Turkey wants to play NATO with the west it will need to control itself.
 
soot said:
I'm not suggesting that they should have.

They just shouldn't have made an international ****ing incident out of it.

Take your beating, lick your wounds, laugh about it with your buddies over beers 20 years later.

No big deal.

It was just a beating.
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Who made the international incident of this?
 
Medusa said:
it is called revenge.yankees had done the same thing to our soldiers in northern ıraq in 2003


now yankees are thugs ?:confused:
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Its called NATO, and western relations. If you think that this "revenge" is acceptable perhaps you should pursue relations with Russia instead?

Can't have it both ways.
 
rathi said:
Attacking the local soldiers is just lazy. These random soldiers were not responsible for Iraq, they are just doing their job. Probably the biggest problem in the entire world is that people attack convenient scapegoats instead of their real problem. You have a problem with what happened in Iraq, come to America and beat up Bush. You have a problem with the current government in Turkey, blame Erdogan not the entire country.
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This is a very good post. Deserves its own thread.
 
Declan said:
Turkey has options. The US not so much
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Declan said:
Or what?
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Dude, are you seriously trying to say that the US couldn't strongarm turkey if they wanted to? You're considered the world's only superpower for a reason.

There are many ways the US could push back at Turkey... I'll pick the most obvious one - we can support the Kurdish fighters in Iraq right on their border. You know that there is a strong Kurdish population in Turkey that would love to see an independent Kurdistan, right?

Now that said, we're not going to go do that over a couple soldiers being pushed around. That would be disproportionate and stupid.... Turkey is an important ally. Just making the point here that for you to say that Turkey holds all the cards is foolish and wrong.
 
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