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Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans[W:466]

Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

rcart76 said:
So why do most republicans think that black people take their marching orders from Al Sharpton? Also, the Tea Party idolizes Glen Beck and his crazy conspiracy theories.
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Actually the majority of tea partiers barely pay any attention to Glen Beck. I am a big tea party supporter. And while I think Beck has a great radio voice...I think he's a bit of a conspiracy nut. I am more of a Rush Limbaugh fan.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

haymarket said:
The question here is simple: is election fraud a problem that is on a level to warrant the solutions proposed knowing the potential risks of those solutions and the already announced intention to use it for partisan purposes. I have seen no verifiable evidence that it is a problem on such a level to warrant that risk.
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The only partisan use is to ensure that the other side is not having dead folks vote. :shrug:
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

mac said:
The only partisan use is to ensure that the other side is not having dead folks vote. :shrug:
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The very public comments of Mike Turzai can fairly be seen as saying otherwise.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

haymarket said:
The very public comments of Mike Turzai can fairly be seen as saying otherwise.
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No, they say exactly what I just said. Since at least he perceives voter fraud benefiting democrats, it's very safe to assume that combating it helps the GOP.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

rcart76 said:
As long as the two sides don't meet in the middle and talk to each other and agree that there is a problem, then racism will always exist.
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Yeah, there's racism. And there was racism during the Jim Crow era, too, when most black households were led by two parents who were married to each other and before the Civil Rights Act and Johnson's Great Society and War on Poverty programs. I mean, which is the bigger problem for blacks today? Racism or the fact that more than two-thirds of black babies are born out of wedlock?

Census Bureau Links Poverty With Out-of-Wedlock Births - US News
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

mac said:
No, they say exactly what I just said. Since at least he perceives voter fraud benefiting democrats, it's very safe to assume that combating it helps the GOP.
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Now all he has to do is prove it.

Which he never did.

So his perceptions are not worth the utilitarian value of a common five pound bag of garden manure.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

haymarket said:
Now all he has to do is prove it.

Which he never did.

So his perceptions are not worth the utilitarian value of a common five pound bag of garden manure.
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That may very well be true, but doesn't change the motivation for his comment.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

Ahlevah said:
Yeah, there's racism. And there was racism during the Jim Crow era, too, when most black households were led by two parents who were married to each other and before the Civil Rights Act and Johnson's Great Society and War on Poverty programs. I mean, which is the bigger problem for blacks today? Racism or the fact that more than two-thirds of black babies are born out of wedlock?

Census Bureau Links Poverty With Out-of-Wedlock Births - US News
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and welfare programs promote out of wedlock births.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

mac said:
That may very well be true, but doesn't change the motivation for his comment.
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Why do you believe the hype? Is it because you and Turzai prostrate yourself before the same altar and have drunk the same Kool-aid and swallow the same party line?

Because all you seem to have is the standard belief of the rabidly partisan right without any proof. And without that Turzai is simply a rabid partisan trying to manipulate an election with a new voter ID law or his own party and said so.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

haymarket said:
Why do you believe the hype? Is it because you and Turzai prostrate yourself before the same altar and have drunk the same Kool-aid and swallow the same party line?

Because all you seem to have is the standard belief of the rabidly partisan right without any proof. And without that Turzai is simply a rabid partisan trying to manipulate an election with a new voter ID law or his own party and said so.
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and I didn't say I agree with him. But there is a difference between agreeing with him and assigning some nefarious motive to his comment. Were it not for your koolaid, which you clearly drink regularly, you'd be a bit more objective yourself.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

mac said:
and I didn't say I agree with him. But there is a difference between agreeing with him and assigning some nefarious motive to his comment. Were it not for your koolaid, which you clearly drink regularly, you'd be a bit more objective yourself.
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His nefarious motive was clear in his comment. He intends to use voter ID as a way to win elections for his party.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

haymarket said:
What facts are you disputing?

Do you dispute the fact that McCotter was fraudulently placed on the ballot for at least three election cycles?
Do you dispute the fact that McCotter should have have been in Congress representing that Michigan district?
Do you dispute the fact that fraud and criminality were used to put him on the ballot?
Do you dispute the fact that over 700,000 people in Michigan were cheated out of a legitimate representative for the better part of three terms?

Are you disputing these facts because none of them involve my opinion.
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LOL

So you have nothing that specifically implicates McCotter himself, as your earlier statements did?

Do you dispute the fact that members of McCotter's staff, and not McCotter himself, were the ones who pleaded no contest to the petition scam?

I get you hate the man, wrong ideology, so claiming McCotter personally did all these things floats your boat. The facts appear to be that his staff committed fraud, and in the end McCotter resigned.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

ocean515 said:
LOL

So you have nothing that specifically implicates McCotter himself, as your earlier statements did?
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http://www.freep.com/article/20120810/NEWS01/308100068/1450/APPELECTION&template=artiPhone

Michigan Attorney General Bill Schuette feels a bit differently than you do. He lays the blame for the fraud direct at McCotter.

Schuette -- like McCotter, a former Republican congressman -- said McCotter was "asleep at the switch," providing no direction to his district office staff in Livonia as they scrambled a day before the May 15 filing deadline for Congress to assemble petitions with the names of 1,800 voters in the district. The Secretary of State found that just 244 were valid.

"They were more than just Keystone Kops run amok," Schuette said. In their report, his investigators described a "dysfunctional congressional staff that had completely lost its moral compass."
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McCotter was the man in charge.It is his signature that goes on the application when the petitions are turned into the Michigan office to get on the ballot. McCotter is the one who accepts responsibility for what is on those petitions even though others may have actually circulated them.

When a fellow republican and one who served in Congress with McCotter calls him
- "asleep at the switch"
- and says he ran a "dysfunctional congressional staff that had completely lost its moral compass"

that is a strong indictment of the direct responsibility McCotter bears. That more than "implicates " McCotter. It lays the blame directly upon McCotter.

this article gives us more

http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/201...arges-for-filing-fraudulent-ballot-petitions/

“Here, former Congressman McCotter was asleep at the switch. He failed to mind the store and appears to have provided no supervision whatsoever to his staff members,” Schuette continued. “Election fraud will not be tolerated and this brazen attitude of indifference by public servants is disgraceful.”
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The failure in the opinion of the republican Michigan Attorney General is square upon the shoulders of McCotter.

I liked the final comments in the free press article

"The congressman has resigned in disgrace," Schuette said. "But the district got stiffed. People got stiffed."
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Which is just what I stated yesterday. Over 700,000 people including myself were cheated by this disgusting and blatant example of election fraud. It dwarfs some of the piddly penny ante anecdotes we have seen in this thread which cause some such outrage.
 
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Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

haymarket said:
http://www.freep.com/article/20120810/NEWS01/308100068/1450/APPELECTION&template=artiPhone

Michigan Attorney General Bill Schuette feels a bit differently than you do. He lays the blame for the fraud direct at McCotter.



McCotter was the man in charge.It is his signature that goes on the application when the petitions are turned into the Michigan office to get on the ballot. McCotter is the one who accepts responsibility for what is on those petitions even though others may have actually circulated them.

When a fellow republican and one who served in Congress with McCotter calls him
- "asleep at the switch"
- and says he ran a "dysfunctional congressional staff that had completely lost its moral compass"

that is a strong indictment of the direct responsibility McCotter bears. That more than "implicates " McCotter. It lays the blame directly upon McCotter.

this article gives us more

Staffers for former Rep. Thaddeus McCotter (R-Mich.) will face criminal charges for filing fraudulent ballot petitions - The Political Carnival



The failure in the opinion of the republican Michigan Attorney General is square upon the shoulders of McCotter.
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Asleep at the switch? It would appear so. A dysfunctional staff? Yes, it seems they were. He pulled this scam personally, as your post claimed? No, he did not.

Claiming he was personally responsible is nothing but your opinion. Case closed.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

haymarket said:
His nefarious motive was clear in his comment. He intends to use voter ID as a way to win elections for his party.
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B..but you said there is no evidence of voter fraud! :lamo
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

ocean515 said:
Asleep at the switch? It would appear so. A dysfunctional staff? Yes, it seems they were. He pulled this scam personally, as your post claimed? No, he did not.

Claiming he was personally responsible is nothing but your opinion. Case closed.
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Lets reopen that case for a moment while I directly confront you head on with your post. Attorney General Schuette laid blame for the fraud at McCotter. It is his opinion also. Remember, when a candidate submits petitions to the State of Michigan elections office they must sign a statement accepting responsibility for them. That is not done by a campaign manager or by a staffer but must be done by the candidate themselves. McCotter accepted that responsibility - not once, not twice but three different times when he submitted those bogus and forged petitions.

Schuette did not prosecute him as he could show no intent on the part of McCotter to commit a crime but that legal technicality does not relieve him of his responsibility for what happened as Schuette said in several different ways.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

jmotivator said:
B..but you said there is no evidence of voter fraud! :lamo
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When you finish your laugh can you quote the post where I stated that "there is no evidence of voter fraud"? I stated that Mike Turzai presented no evidence of vote fraud when he made his infamous pronouncement that voter ID would deliver his state for the Republicans since another poster her claimed that was his intent.

I have never stated that there is not voter fraud. I have stated the evidence of it is small and does not warrant changing the system with its attached risks and potential for political manipulation.
 
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Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

haymarket said:
The question here is simple: is election fraud a problem that is on a level to warrant the solutions proposed knowing the potential risks of those solutions and the already announced intention to use it for partisan purposes. I have seen no verifiable evidence that it is a problem on such a level to warrant that risk.
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You are the one demanding evidence of voter fraud. If you agree that there is voter fraud then why demand the evidence? And, more importantly, why throw a tantrum when someone tries to screen for voter fraud?
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

mac said:
and welfare programs promote out of wedlock births.
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They certainly enable it. Just as a matter of principle forcing one citizen to pay for another's stupidity is immoral, but that's what the Democrats sell.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

haymarket said:
Lets reopen that case for a moment while I directly confront you head on with your post. Attorney General Schuette laid blame for the fraud at McCotter. It is his opinion also. Remember, when a candidate submits petitions to the State of Michigan elections office they must sign a statement accepting responsibility for them. That is not done by a campaign manager or by a staffer but must be done by the candidate themselves. McCotter accepted that responsibility - not once, not twice but three different times when he submitted those bogus and forged petitions.

Schuette did not prosecute him as he could show no intent on the part of McCotter to commit a crime but that legal technicality does not relieve him of his responsibility for what happened as Schuette said in several different ways.
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And yet, you can't claim, as you did, that he personally committed the fraud that his staff was found guilty of. Spin all you want, and confront all you want, you claimed the guy did these things personally, and it's rather clear he did not. Case closed.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

haymarket said:
His nefarious motive was clear in his comment. He intends to use voter ID as a way to win elections for his party.
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By eliminating the voter fraud that benefits democrats.

:shrug:
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

rcart76 said:
I agree with you. However , from my experience, I face more in your face racism from right leaning crowds than left leaning crowds. The left leaning crowds feels more inclusive to anyone. Blacks, whites, hispanics, gays etc. Left leaning crowds are more likely to celebrate and embrace different cultures. Nobody is worried about the skin color of the other. You feel like you are welcome. Right leaning crowds are different. From my experience, they will be nice to you, but it seems like it is forced. There is only one culture embraced generally.
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I have dealt with racism from both groups. The racism I've dealt with from White right-leaning people tends to be more overt, or "in your face", as you put it. The racism I've dealt with from White left-leaning people tends to be based more in the assumptions that underlie their descriptions of themselves and other racial groups. They may be more inclusive and more respectful of the rights and identities other people, but I've still seen many of them mock and denigrate non-white cultures and language.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

ocean515 said:
And yet, you can't claim, as you did, that he personally committed the fraud that his staff was found guilty of. Spin all you want, and confront all you want, you claimed the guy did these things personally, and it's rather clear he did not. Case closed.
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You keep closing the case only to come back again and again.

The entire fraud would not have been possible without Than McCotter. He turned in nominating petitions and singed the statement that he was responsible for their contents. He ran an arganization and utterly failed to properly perform his job regarding his staff and the content of those petitions. In my opinion, and in the opinion of Republican Attorney General Bill Schuette - that makes him the man responsible. It may not make him criminally liable - but that is a different matter altogether as the attorney general stated. If you want to paddle up the river denial because it somehow makes you feel better - its fine with me.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

mac said:
By eliminating the voter fraud that benefits democrats.

:shrug:
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Step one - before you eliminate it you have to identify it and prove it. Turzai went past that step.

Without that valuable step - all he and other have is suspicions and in some cases - paranoia. Neither are proof of anything.
 
Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

jmotivator said:
You are the one demanding evidence of voter fraud. If you agree that there is voter fraud then why demand the evidence? And, more importantly, why throw a tantrum when someone tries to screen for voter fraud?
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First, we alredy screen for voter fraud. I have been screened every singletime I have voted over the last 44 years. We already do that.

Second, the question is NOT and HAS NEVER BEEN if there is a case of voter fraud in the hundreds of millions votes cast in this nation every election cycle. So please flush that canard where it belongs.

The question is clear and simple: is the level of voter election fraud enough to warrant a change via voter ID balanced against the risks of the voter ID Program and the announced intention of partisans to use it for their own nefarious political manipulations?

That is the question.

So get rid of your nonsense as it has no place in this discussion.
 
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