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Apple CEO Tim Cook comes out: 'I'm proud to be gay'

Oh, so it's a newly developed pride? Yes, pride often has costs, he was apparently not proud, as he put the worry of those costs ahead of what he claims to be proud of. There have been proud gay people in the past 40+ years that didn't exactly have their opportunities ruined for life...did quite well even. So he wasn't proud until it was PC to be proud, hence I question his supposed pride.

Question it all you like, you still can't read his mind. You're not in his head, and you don't know what fears he did or didn't face before finally coming out.
 
Question it all you like, you still can't read his mind. You're not in his head, and you don't know what fears he did or didn't face before finally coming out.

Well, pride is a quantifiable thing. If I'm going to rejoice and regale a proud, male, white citizen regarding their pride about being gay, I'll look instead to likes of Barney Frank, Neil Patrick Harris, and those have been out since their adulthood began and it wasn't at all "acceptable".
 
Well, pride is a quantifiable thing. If I'm going to rejoice and regale a proud, male, white citizen regarding their pride about being gay, I'll look instead to likes of Barney Frank, Neil Patrick Harris, and those have been out since their adulthood began and it wasn't at all "acceptable".

Alright, so you can judge. It must be nice.
 
Yes, out of context, removed of intent, removed of circumstances, removed of everything associated with the history of gay rights. Your point was worthless.

You mean the intent is well served by stupid sentences that are such in any context? What a pitiful way to bray out ones history.
 
... I wonder how many Christians will decide to stop using Apples because a gay man runs it. I'm sure they'll use other computers from now on.

TAHC_Turing_1A.jpg

I have not started using Apples yet. I am on my fifth Blackberry.
 
Alright, so you can judge. It must be nice.

It is, just as you are now judging me...;)

Waiting til you a complete success at the top or near the top of every possible personal success rating to come out and risk nothing? Please your definition of pride must be very shallow.
 
You mean the intent is well served by stupid sentences that are such in any context? What a pitiful way to bray out ones history.

Historical context is pitiful? Hoookay.
 
It is, just as you are now judging me...;)

Waiting til you a complete success at the top or near the top of every possible personal success rating to come out and risk nothing? Please your definition of pride must be very shallow.

As you say. I'll reserve judgment until my mind reading device arrives from Ebay.
 
Historical context is pitiful? Hoookay.

Actually yes, when it comes to pride, historical context is pitiful. Pride takes a willingness, a demand even, to embrace a person, idea, ideal regardless of historical, social, or political environment. Tim Cook did not display any of those, he waiting til it was mostly acceptable.
 
I have not started using Apples yet. I am on my fifth Blackberry.

Please tell me you know who Alan Turing is.... please tell me you've escaped the influence of his work by getting a Blackberry...
 
Actually yes, when it comes to pride, historical context is pitiful. Pride takes a willingness, a demand even, to embrace a person, idea, ideal regardless of historical, social, or political environment. Tim Cook did not display any of those, he waiting til it was mostly acceptable.

So you can look inside his brain and see a lack of pride? Did you consider that it's possible to feel pride and still comprehend that publicly stating that pride could be detrimental to your livelihood?
 
As you say. I'll reserve judgment until my mind reading device arrives from Ebay.

So if you see a father never acknowledging his wife or his child, but yet he always tells you he's proud of them... would you believe him? Really? You are gullible then.
 
So if you see a father never acknowledging his wife or his child, but yet he always tells you he's proud of them... would you believe him? Really? You are gullible then.

Is that what he did with a relative, or was it a decision he reserved for himself?
 
Is that what he did with a relative, or was it a decision he reserved for himself?

If you're hiding something most of your life, for gain and/or protection, and only acknowledge it when it is safe to do so,... there is no indication of pride. Or you have a strange way of looking at pride. That's it, that's all there is. Bless your heart.
 
If you're hiding something most of your life, for gain and/or protection, and only acknowledge it when it is safe to do so,... there is no indication of pride. Or you have a strange way of looking at pride. That's it, that's all there is. Bless your heart.

I hide a detail of my life every day, because it is stigmatizing and can be a hinderance in how I am treated. That being said, on the same token, if given a magic pill to change myself, I would refuse. It's a large part of what makes me "me." That's what happens with hidden stigmatizations.
 
If you're hiding something most of your life, for gain and/or protection, and only acknowledge it when it is safe to do so,... there is no indication of pride. Or you have a strange way of looking at pride. That's it, that's all there is. Bless your heart.

As I said, and which you ignored: Did you consider that it's possible to feel pride and still comprehend that publicly stating that pride could be detrimental to your livelihood?
 
I hide a detail of my life every day, because it is stigmatizing and can be a hinderance in how I am treated. That being said, on the same token, if given a magic pill to change myself, I would refuse. It's a large part of what makes me "me." That's what happens with hidden stigmatizations.

Fair enough, and don't we all. But being true to oneself is not the same as pride in a particular feature of ourselves. I'm not questioning that he's gay, that he's never lied or hidden the fact, (since everyone kind of already knew), he hasn't been a hypocrite. .. all good things. All I'm questioning is the use of the word or the attempt to portray his actions a prideful or courageous. Those two don't fit with his life choice scenario. He chose to not come out til it was entirely safe to do so, after he reaped the rewards of being in the closet. There's no pride or courage in that scenario.
 
As I said, and which you ignored: Did you consider that it's possible to feel pride and still comprehend that publicly stating that pride could be detrimental to your livelihood?
Private pride is equal to no pride at all. Pride has to be public to be real.
 
Private pride is equal to no pride at all. Pride has to be public to be real.

Damn... Well, just be careful when you decide to get off that horse, cause it's a really long damn fall.
 
Please tell me you know who Alan Turing is.... please tell me you've escaped the influence of his work by getting a Blackberry...

Never heard of him. I am just not a fad follower. I did not run to get an IPhone when others did.
 
Fair enough, and don't we all. But being true to oneself is not the same as pride in a particular feature of ourselves. I'm not questioning that he's gay, that he's never lied or hidden the fact, (since everyone kind of already knew), he hasn't been a hypocrite. .. all good things. All I'm questioning is the use of the word or the attempt to portray his actions a prideful or courageous. Those two don't fit with his life choice scenario. He chose to not come out til it was entirely safe to do so, after he reaped the rewards of being in the closet. There's no pride or courage in that scenario.

To an extent many people do hide things about themselves, but it's a certain number of things that society enormously targets that can be bad for the person. Being gay is one of them.

However, we must understand that like certain athletes that have come out, there is a different calculus involved. In their circles, being openly gay is incredibly stigmatizing, while in society at large, it has become less so (though still highly stigmatizing). In the elite business world (or even in general), being openly gay is still something that coworkers or employers want kept private, without any hint that one might be gay showing up, because "that doesn't belong at work." Meanwhile everyone else can enjoy talking about their significant others, children and marriages. There can be courage in the cultured sense with this, just as there can be courage in the self for being able to accept themselves.

In terms of being prideful, that's a concept of self and can happen at any time in one's life. I don't really think my pride should be measured by whether or not it has become easier for people to feel pride in who they are under this given circumstance. Had others been earlier trail-blazers? Yes. But people don't owe every waking moment, nor should measure their self-concept to those that came before.
 
To an extent many people do hide things about themselves, but it's a certain number of things that society enormously targets that can be bad for the person. Being gay is one of them.

However, we must understand that like certain athletes that have come out, there is a different calculus involved. In their circles, being openly gay is incredibly stigmatizing, while in society at large, it has become less so (though still highly stigmatizing). In the elite business world (or even in general), being openly gay is still something that coworkers or employers want kept private, without any hint that one might be gay showing up, because "that doesn't belong at work." Meanwhile everyone else can enjoy talking about their significant others, children and marriages. There can be courage in the cultured sense with this, just as there can be courage in the self for being able to accept themselves.

In terms of being prideful, that's a concept of self and can happen at any time in one's life. I don't really think my pride should be measured by whether or not it has become easier for people to feel pride in who they are under this given circumstance. Had others been earlier trail-blazers? Yes. But people don't owe every waking moment, nor should measure their self-concept to those that came before.

Well then we have different definitions of pride. To me you can't claim pride of something you kept in a closet until it was entirely safe not to, it is not courageous to own that thing from the closet after it's entirely safe to do so. That's a chicken-crap in my book, again particularly when compared to those that were in fact PROUD and COURAGEOUS decades ago.
 
Well then we have different definitions of pride. To me you can't claim pride of something you kept in a closet until it was entirely safe not to, it is not courageous to own that thing from the closet after it's entirely safe to do so. That's a chicken-crap in my book, again particularly when compared to those that were in fact PROUD and COURAGEOUS decades ago.

I'm not at all sure he "kept [it] in a closet." I have no idea how long his coworkers, friends, family and more have known about his homosexuality, but there's no evidence he's hidden that. And I surely don't think it's fair for a homosexual to either make an announcement through the press or have it assumed he's somehow ashamed of who he is. There are many fine reasons to maintain a certain level of personal privacy.

As an example, I've been sober for 8+ years, and I'm proud of that, for many reasons. Everyone who matters to me knows this - including everyone I work with on a regular basis, but I don't broadcast that to strangers because when I do I become "Jasper the alcoholic" and it changes how people react to me in several ways that aren't productive because of ignorant stereotypes and biases. But that doesn't make my pride illegitimate.

I'll just finish with it's unfair to hold everyone to the standard of the standard bearers of their era.
 
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