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Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

TheDemSocialist said:
Over 41,000 have been removed from Virginia as the article states...
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Which was done by the local BoEs after doing their own checking. Same would have been done if they were given a random sample of names.

Therefore, if you think there is a problem with any of the 41k removals in Virginia, you need to ask each BoE for the rules they used to remove them.
 
Samhain said:
Which was done by the local BoEs after doing their own checking.
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Based off a deeply flaud system.

Same would have been done if they were given a random sample of names.

Therefore, if you think there is a problem with any of the 41k removals in Virginia, you need to ask each BoE for the rules they used to remove them.
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Umm the whole CrossCheck system is incredibly flaud, as the whole article pointed out and Virginia used that system to determine who stays and is removed from the voting rolls.
 
americanwoman said:
Not only that, if you saw what I posted earlier my husband, a minority democrat, just suddenly had his voting place moved after 8+ years of voting with no notification. When I saw your article and remembered I was wondering why we didn't get our usual voter card, I decided to look it up real quick and saw his place was moved while mine, a minority independent, still remained at the same place. Just makes you wonder why two people from the same exact address would suddenly have one of them moved with no notice just prior to a hot election when back in May during the primaries, he was still at the same place as me. Not exactly the same as this double voting issue but still kind of on topic.
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Was that for the primaries? I won't speak for all place, but I believe that some will have separate primary voting places for the different parties? I'm just info gathering at this point not making a guess as to what happened.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Based off a deeply flaud system.


Umm the whole CrossCheck system is incredibly flaud, as the whole article pointed out and Virginia used that system to determine who stays and is removed from the voting rolls.
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Like I said, if I gave Virginia 50k random names, a % of those would be found to have problems on the roles. Its an indictment of the status of the existing voter roles, which have little to no regular maintenance.
 
Samhain said:
Your article doesn't say they will, nor can you show that anyone was removed.

Show me where a Secretary of State, of any of the 28 states that use this program, has actually removed someone from the voter roles due to this program's information.
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The article says Georgia used the list to send out a postcard, asking the recipient to return the card verifying their registration. And what anyone with any sense knows are several things pointed out in the article - most of us ignore postcards as the junk they are 99% of the time, so there's a very, very good chance the card will be overlooked and not returned. Also, the person may have moved, and never get the card, and the poor who rent are far more likely to move than those with a home, the card lost in the mail, etc. And there is no follow up - no phone call, not letter, no nothing.

The whole point of something like this is to add any step that voters you don't want to vote to have to take before they can cast a ballot. If you make those voters take an additional step, you KNOW many will not or cannot for various reasons, and they won't vote. So the only real problem is designing a process that makes the other party's voters do this more often than your own, which the list does - minorities are over represented by about 550,000 on the lists in VA, NC and GA, and whites under represented by about 550k. The numbers are staggering - hundreds of thousands in the states examined. If 400,000 post cards are mailed based on bogus matches of double voting, 80% return the card, that's 80,000 removed from the rolls. If the split is 60 democrats/40 republicans, you've just removed a net 16,000 likely democrats from the rolls.

Sheesh, this is how ELECTION fraud works, it's done by consultants in suits and white shirts making $1,000 an hour to legally tilt the process in favor or their candidates. And not one conservative on here applauding photo ID rules seems to have the slightest problem with error ridden lists being used to purge registered voters off the rolls.

Besides, the reason you know this is BS is there has never been any actual use of the "double voting" list to prosecute more than a handful of people. The article talks about NC - they have a list of nearly 200k and have prosecuted NO ONE. NOT ONE VOTER.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Great article but this is the biggest thing that stuck out to me:

Read more @: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

This is a great article. Too bad none of this is actually a criminal offense. The GOP loves these actions, because its simple, they are taking away people who will not vote for them. The GOP is no friend of democracy.
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The article makes good suggestions and assumptions, but does not give us enough information to know for sure that someone is really being excluded from voting based on faulty information. What we know is the cross check is designed to ensure someone is not living in one State, voting in that State, then voting in some other State as well. Checking for this makes good sense, and we know with some degree of certainty we have an issue with voter tracking State to State. What I do find suspect is the States we are talking about at the time of the article, but still we need more information before drawing the conclusion that Republicans are purposefully removing votes just cause.
 
Erod said:
So you get it fixed at the polling station. Happens all the time.

But this is fraud karma, pure and simple.
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That's not actually how it works. If you are purged from the rolls, you at best can cast a provisional ballot, which requires you to make a visit to the elections board within a few days and prove that you were properly registered, didn't vote twice, aren't registered and voted in VA or whatever reason it was that you were purged. That's a difficult and time consuming task, and you only have a few days. Lots CANNOT take that time off from work, or if they did would cost them money for lost hours. So many won't do it, or cannot do it.

And it's just one more step that people have to take to get their vote counted, which is the point. If 'your' people have to take 100,000 fewer steps than the other side, you win the game, because when you add a step, some percentage of voters will not or cannot take that step.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Which is a huge problem. Possibly and most likely already disenfranchised voters who have done nothing wrong.
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That's interesting. Can you demonstrate that?

Because as the article states: "Mark Swedlund is a specialist in list analytics whose clients have included eBay, AT&T and Nike. At Al Jazeera America’s request, he conducted a statistical review of Crosscheck’s three lists of suspected double voters. According to Swedlund, “It appears that Crosscheck does have inherent bias to over-selecting for potential scrutiny and purging voters from Asian, Hispanic and Black ethnic groups. In fact, the matching methodology, which presumes people in other states with the same name are matches, will always over-select from groups of people with common surnames.” Swedlund sums up the method for finding two-state voters — simply matching first and last name — as “ludicrous, just crazy.”
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Precisely. You are arguing that a system designed (if imperfectly) to catch double voters is catching lots of blacks.
 
OrphanSlug said:
The article makes good suggestions and assumptions, but does not give us enough information to know for sure that someone is really being excluded from voting based on faulty information. What we know is the cross check is designed to ensure someone is not living in one State, voting in that State, then voting in some other State as well. Checking for this makes good sense, and we know with some degree of certainty we have an issue with voter tracking State to State. What I do find suspect is the States we are talking about at the time of the article, but still we need more information before drawing the conclusion that Republicans are purposefully removing votes just cause.
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It might make good sense, but not when all you're using to check is first and last name. It's guaranteed to generate 100s of thousands of false positives, which is a feature, not a bug, of the process.
 
JasperL said:
It might make good sense, but not when all you're using to check is first and last name. It's guaranteed to generate 100s of thousands of false positives, which is a feature, not a bug, of the process.
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The article may suggest that, but it is not clear that the process only uses the first and last name. It appears that we have other data elements being looked at. The suspect part was the bit about the SSN sometimes not matching but still triggering a duplicate condition. But even the article is not saying the frequency that is happening, or what other data elements matched that caused SSN discrepancy to be ignored. It all still comes down to the process that I offer we do not know enough about to suggest Republicans are arbitrarily removing voters.
 
OrphanSlug said:
The article may suggest that, but it is not clear that the process only uses the first and last name. It appears that we have other data elements being looked at. The suspect part was the bit about the SSN sometimes not matching but still triggering a duplicate condition. But even the article is not saying the frequency that is happening, or what other data elements matched that caused SSN discrepancy to be ignored. It all still comes down to the process that I offer we do not know enough about to suggest Republicans are arbitrarily removing voters.
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What seems clear is the list is very flawed and full of false positives. In NC there were 192,000 'matches.' But the FBI guy they hired to prosecute 'voter fraud' has charged exactly no one with double voting, in five months. That's awfully revealing about the quality of the list, which is pretty much a big pile of dog poo.
 
JasperL said:
What seems clear is the list is very flawed and full of false positives. In NC there were 192,000 'matches.' But the FBI guy they hired to prosecute 'voter fraud' has charged exactly no one with double voting, in five months. That's awfully revealing about the quality of the list, which is pretty much a big pile of dog poo.
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Perhaps, if we knew more we could be sure about this list. Until then...
 
OrphanSlug said:
Perhaps, if we knew more we could be sure about this list. Until then...
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It's possible, but I'd be upset if I was a NC taxpayer and the FBI guy we hired to prosecute voter fraud got a good list of 192,000 names of criminals, and couldn't in five months find a single person to charge with a crime....

In fact, to date, Lawson [NC Board of Elections spokesman] admits that [former FBI agent] Stuber has found only errors and not one verified fraudulent voter.
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JasperL said:
It's possible, but I'd be upset if I was a NC taxpayer and the FBI guy we hired to prosecute voter fraud got a good list of 192,000 names of criminals, and couldn't in five months find a single person to charge with a crime....
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I'm not saying otherwise. But if that number of people are really being excluded from voting you would think ABC, NBC, CNN, and a host of others would be running the story non-stop 24 hours a day camped out in the driveway of every Republican Candidate in the States in question asking a plethora of very stupid questions at every opportunity.
 
americanwoman said:
Interesting, I was just talking to my husband last night how we haven't received our polling information yet. So reading this got me thinking about it again. We are both registered, I am independent and he is a democrat. I just looked on the website below under registration information to confirm where we are supposed to go and no surprise - even though we live at the same address and have for over 8 years and have both voted at the same church the entire time, suddenly his place has been moved about a mile away to some kind of public housing complex but mine remains at the church. Then when I put our address under the general polling place, the church comes up. Kind of suspicious when you think about it. Especially considering he received no notification of the move. Maybe just a coincidence, maybe not.


https://www.votercheck.necvr.ne.gov/VoterView/RegistrantSearch.do
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You vote in a church? What happened to separation of church and state? [emoji6]
 
TheDemSocialist said:
As the article states: "Al Jazeera America visited these and several other potential double voters. John Paul Williams of Alexandria insists he has never used the alias “John R. Williams.” “I’ve never lived in Georgia,” he says.Jo Cox, wife of suspected double voter Robert Glen Cox of Virginia, says she has a solid alibi for him. Cox “is 85 years old and handicapped. He wasn’t in Georgia. Never voted there,” she says. He has also never used the middle name “Dewey.” Twenty-three percent of the names — nearly 1.6 million of them — lack matching middle names. “Jr.” and “Sr.” are ignored, potentially disenfranchising two generations in the same family. And, notably, of those who may have voted twice in the 2012 presidential election, 27 percent were listed as “inactive” voters, meaning that almost 1.9 million may not even have voted once in that race, according to Crosscheck’s own records. Al Jazeera America met with Kevin Antonio Hayes at his home in Durham. He is listed as having voted a second time, in Virginia, with the middle name Thomas, Hayes and his mother insist that he did not vote at all."

Might help if people actually read the article before commenting..
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I wonder if AL Jeez knows that voter fraud doesn't require that the real voter is a willing accomplice? Apparently not.

In other words, what matters here is whether the Georgia vote was a stolen identity. If so then Mr Williams troubles are not the fault of Crosscheck but of the identity thief.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Some? Probably. Their are racists in both camps. But its pretty clear the GOP doesnt like minorities to vote because it mainly goes to the Dems.
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Are all Democrat Senators and Representatives racists? How many of them are avoiding The One on the golf course? Why don't they want the 1/6th black president to appear with them? It is racism, isn't it? Why won't they surround themselves with the illegal aliens they have invited into the nation? Don't they like their brown illegal aliens? It is racism, isn't it? Why won't they surround themselves with the Islamofascists they have invited into this country? Is it the dark or olive skin? It is racism, isn't it?
 
jmotivator said:
I wonder if AL Jeez knows that voter fraud doesn't require that the real voter is a willing accomplice? Apparently not.

In other words, what matters here is whether the Georgia vote was a stolen identity. If so then Mr Williams troubles are not the fault of Crosscheck but of the identity thief.
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Why would it be a stolen identity - the two men had different names (John Paul, and John R.). Per the article, Twenty-three percent of the names — nearly 1.6 million of them — lack matching middle names.
 
JasperL said:
Why would it be a stolen identity - the two men had different names (John Paul, and John R.). Per the article, Twenty-three percent of the names — nearly 1.6 million of them — lack matching middle names.
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That is the funny thing. Al Jeez and the all bold hand wavy crowd here are making the same unsubstantiated leap from a list of "potential double votes" to a guaranteed disenfranchisement of 1.6 million voters.

There are a number a real problems with that leap:

1) This is a list of POTENTIAL double voters, not a list of people whose franchise has been revoked. A Jeez has simply spun the story in a way that has liberal panties in a wad by throwing around idiotic comparisons to Jim Crow (*coughhistoricallyaDemocratpolicycough*)

2) A double vote is not inherently voting twice for the same party candidate. Double voting can also be an identity theft where the bogus vote is for the opposite party, nullifying the vote. In a presidential race the two votes would have cancelling effects.

3) The thing people fail to realize is that False positives that lead to revocation and true positives that are not corrected on that list both end in the same result: disenfranchisement. So while there is a POTENTIAL that some in the 20% could lose their right to vote erroneously there is also the POTENTIAL that there are people in the 80% who have already had their franchise nullified.

4) If there is actual voting fraud going on, and people really are getting their identities stolen, then any corrections of the voting record would also inordinately benefit minority communities.
 
jmotivator said:
That is the funny thing. Al Jeez and the all bold hand wavy crowd here are making the same unsubstantiated leap from a list of "potential double votes" to a guaranteed disenfranchisement of 1.6 million voters.

There are a number a real problems with that leap:

1) This is a list of POTENTIAL double voters, not a list of people whose franchise has been revoked. A Jeez has simply spun the story in a way that has liberal panties in a wad by throwing around idiotic comparisons to Jim Crow (*coughhistoricallyaDemocratpolicycough*)
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Ok, let's forget Jim Crow. But the article explained and I've pointed out how states are using the list - to send postcards to those on the list that require them to verify their addresses. It's guaranteed that a large number will fail that step, and because of known reasons, MORE likely that poor people will than those not poor, chiefly they're more likely to rent and change addresses.

2) A double vote is not inherently voting twice for the same party candidate. Double voting can also be an identity theft where the bogus vote is for the opposite party, nullifying the vote. In a presidential race the two votes would have cancelling effects.
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That's fine, but the FBI guy with a list of 192,000 can't find even ONE person to charge with double voting. Not one. That's all you really need to know about the accuracy of the list.

3) The thing people fail to realize is that False positives that lead to revocation and true positives that are not corrected on that list both end in the same result: disenfranchisement. So while there is a POTENTIAL that some in the 20% could lose their right to vote erroneously there is also the POTENTIAL that there are people in the 80% who have already had their franchise nullified.
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There really isn't - point me to a single person charged with double voting caught from this list? I haven't seen any, and NC hired a person to do just that who in 5 months found NONE, but maybe there are 20, in all states, and the list is millions long.

Why is this story so familiar - lots of allegations of possible fraud, but all the evidence indicates the problem is actually trivial, at best.

4) If there is actual voting fraud going on, and people really are getting their identities stolen, then any corrections of the voting record would also inordinately benefit minority communities.
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The approach really isn't defensible when they ignore SSN, ignore middle names, and ignore Sr, and Jr. It appears they ignore birthdates and only need a match of first and last name, with a quarter of the suspected double voters classified as inactive because they haven't voted at all recently. It's just a sloppy, laughable approach, so the question is why would a state take that kind of guaranteed to be terrible approach? Are they that incompetent? It's either that or it's a way to legally kick mostly democrats off the registration lists.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Great article but this is the biggest thing that stuck out to me:

Read more @: Jim Crow returns Millions of minority voters threatened by electoral purge

This is a great article. Too bad none of this is actually a criminal offense. The GOP loves these actions, because its simple, they are taking away people who will not vote for them. The GOP is no friend of democracy.
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What a load of crap. I can't believe that you're complaining about removing double votes by someone. Voting twice IS illegal ya know. Or do you advocate for not following the law?
 
Kal'Stang said:
What a load of crap. I can't believe that you're complaining about removing double votes by someone. Voting twice IS illegal ya know. Or do you advocate for not following the law?
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As the article proves many of these "double voters" havent even voted once. And the way they collect data to "verify" double voters is incredibly flawed.
 
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