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Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

America has been shifting to individualistic mentality for decades. Unions are a casualty of that mindset. The myth of self-sufficiency and the narrative of success as an individual achievement are at this point deeply rooted in the American psyche. Unions are largely the antithesis of what Americans believe are the means to success, even if they would provide results that are in keeping with what Americans actually want.

I would say that the myth that individuals are incapable of defining and obtaining their own employment worth has died away.
 
I would say that the myth that individuals are incapable of defining and obtaining their own employment worth has died away.

The middle class has died away, which is what unions typically support.
 
America has been shifting to individualistic mentality for decades. Unions are a casualty of that mindset. The myth of self-sufficiency and the narrative of success as an individual achievement are at this point deeply rooted in the American psyche. Unions are largely the antithesis of what Americans believe are the means to success, even if they would provide results that are in keeping with what Americans actually want.

The education system in this country seems to be a problem. Too many people are always looking for someone to do things for them and personal responsibility is lost. There is a cost to the employee for union representation and that cost isn't offset by the benefits one could generate for themselves. People are obviously seeing that thus the decline in union membership. Unfortunately even you have no idea what it costs to start up, meet the legal/tax requirements, and monthly operating expenses nor does it matter to you, but money doesn't grow on trees and unions price companies out of business. seems that no job is better than a non union job to you.
 
The education system in this country seems to be a problem. Too many people are always looking for someone to do things for them and personal responsibility is lost. There is a cost to the employee for union representation and that cost isn't offset by the benefits one could generate for themselves. People are obviously seeing that thus the decline in union membership. Unfortunately even you have no idea what it costs to start up, meet the legal/tax requirements, and monthly operating expenses nor does it matter to you, but money doesn't grow on trees and unions price companies out of business. seems that no job is better than a non union job to you.

Once again, union pay is 10-30% higher compared to non union equivalents. Union dues don't cost 10-30% of a pay check. That's not including health benefits which are at 90% in union jobs. Between those two numbers dues are a small price to pay.
 
Once again, union pay is 10-30% higher compared to non union equivalents. Union dues don't cost 10-30% of a pay check. That's not including health benefits which are at 90% in union jobs. Between those two numbers dues are a small price to pay.

Thus costs for business are 10-30% higher and they have to make up that expense to pay for the cost of capital and still compete in the market place. How do you suggest they pay for it?
 
The middle class has died away, which is what unions typically support.

I've noticed that unions typically support themselves and democrats. I've never understood exactly how being a pipefitter is a political decision, but if you happen to be in a union or are required to be in one, it certainly is.
 
Thus costs for business are 10-30% higher and they have to make up that expense to pay for the cost of capital and still compete in the market place. How do you suggest they pay for it?

So, you're raising several different issues:

1) How should business costs be allocated

2) How should profits be allocated

3) Who should decide this
 
So, you're raising several different issues:

1) How should business costs be allocated

2) How should profits be allocated

3) Who should decide this

Look, I don't mean to disrespectful but how old are you? How should businesses costs be allocated? Do you have concept of a business financial statement? Have you ever seen a business financial statement? Payroll is a business expense and 10-30% higher expenses have to be paid for out of revenue. Do you shop? Do you shop for the best prices?

Profits allocated? What are profits and where do they go? Ask your teacher. It really is scary that in this country we have people who think that profits should be allocated and controlled. Do you realize that profits are taxed? The higher the profits the higher the taxes?

Who should decide on what someone else makes? Wow, what a question? Shouldn't this be asked more of a Communist country?
 
Look, I don't mean to disrespectful but how old are you? How should businesses costs be allocated? Do you have concept of a business financial statement? Have you ever seen a business financial statement? Payroll is a business expense and 10-30% higher expenses have to be paid for out of revenue. Do you shop? Do you shop for the best prices?
Yes, I try to be a conscientious consumer. I try and shop for sustainable goods purchased from people paid fair wages. It's not always possible, but when it's an option, I try and make it. Conversely, I try and avoid purchasing from those that have unsustainable products and payrates.

Employee compensation is one portion of costs to a business, but how that is allocated isn't fixed. Just because we're paying some employees substantially more or substantially less than others doesn't mean that is sustainable or valid.

Further, while compensation is a portion of expenses it isn't the only expense, and why should the others get prioritized above fair wages in terms of allocation? Why are investments (as an example) seen as a de facto priority over living wages?
Profits allocated? What are profits and where do they go? Ask your teacher. It really is scary that in this country we have people who think that profits should be allocated and controlled. Do you realize that profits are taxed? The higher the profits the higher the taxes?
Profit margins at the expense of fair pay is the issue.
Who should decide on what someone else makes? Wow, what a question? Shouldn't this be asked more of a Communist country?
Unions aren't government. Unionization is a free market response to a free market problem. That's not communism.
 
Yes, I try to be a conscientious consumer. I try and shop for sustainable goods purchased from people paid fair wages. It's not always possible, but when it's an option, I try and make it. Conversely, I try and avoid purchasing from those that have unsustainable products and payrates.

Employee compensation is one portion of costs to a business, but how that is allocated isn't fixed. Just because we're paying some employees substantially more or substantially less than others doesn't mean that is sustainable or valid.

Further, while compensation is a portion of expenses it isn't the only expense, and why should the others get prioritized above fair wages in terms of allocation? Why are investments (as an example) seen as a de facto priority over living wages?

Profit margins at the expense of fair pay is the issue.

Unions aren't government. Unionization is a free market response to a free market problem. That's not communism.

Didn't answer the question, how old are you and what is your business experience? The rest of your post is nothing more than opinions of someone too young to be taken seriously
 
Didn't answer the question, how old are you and what is your business experience? The rest of your post is nothing more than opinions of someone too young to be taken seriously

I didn't address your personal questions because my background isn't the topic of discussion just as yours isn't.
 
I didn't address your personal questions because my background isn't the topic of discussion just as yours isn't.

Your background establishes your experience level and understanding of business. You apparently have no business or employment experience at all
 
Your background establishes your experience level and understanding of business. You apparently have no business or employment experience at all

Really? Have you revealed what so called company you "ran"? Oh yeah, you haven't, so you apparently have no business or employment experience at all.
 
Really? Have you revealed what so called company you "ran"? Oh yeah, you haven't, so you apparently have no business or employment experience at all.

I am 67 years old, ran a chain of Convenience stores with 1200 employees and 12 direct reports. We did 200 million a year in sales, never paid minimum wage, and offered healthcare to all employees including part timers. Any more information you want? The company name is of no concern to you
 
Really? Have you revealed what so called company you "ran"? Oh yeah, you haven't, so you apparently have no business or employment experience at all.

I am 67 years old, ran a chain of Convenience stores with 1200 employees and 12 direct reports. We did 200 million a year in sales, never paid minimum wage, and offered healthcare to all employees including part timers. Any more information you want? The company name is of no concern to you
 
Union demands send Japanese firm, jobs packing from California town | Fox News

Just another example of why California is one of the most unfriendly states to business in the country. California continues to prevent companies from creating jobs and having employees paying taxes which is why California is losing businesses and has among the highest unemployment rates in the nation.

Very true and further the truth is liberals have never cared about jobs. They say they are for the middle class, of course their idea of helping the middle class is give free stuff and create more entitlements. Creating an environment for jobs is not on their agenda, never was, never will be. Christ a company creating a job is one that is destroying our environment, liberals want to kill companies that create jobs. Kill oil, kill coal, kill fracking, kill keystone, kill farming they create dust, kill all the cattle ranches, cattle fart and destroy the atmosphere, the list goes on and on.
 
I am 67 years old, ran a chain of Convenience stores with 1200 employees and 12 direct reports. We did 200 million a year in sales, never paid minimum wage, and offered healthcare to all employees including part timers. Any more information you want? The company name is of no concern to you

Sorry, you are a known to post lying comments. Typical Con, making up ****.
 
Your background establishes your experience level and understanding of business. You apparently have no business or employment experience at all
If we're arguing facts, background isn't relevant, nor is personal experience a trump card since it's mostly limited to anecdotal evidence. I could just as easily argue that my experience with unions exceeds yours but that doesn't promote discussion, which is why ultimately here.
 
If we're arguing facts, background isn't relevant, nor is personal experience a trump card since it's mostly limited to anecdotal evidence. I could just as easily argue that my experience with unions exceeds yours but that doesn't promote discussion, which is why ultimately here.

In addition to the issues presented in the OP, which you have commented on, how much do you think these additional facts related to liberal/progressive actions taken by the government have contributed to challenges in growing middle class jobs?


California ranks 48th for tax, 47th for business | Our City San Diego

We’re No. 48! It doesn’t quite have a catchy ring. But it does sound better than we’re third worst.

Sadly, that’s where California ranks among states when it comes to tax climate. The Tax Foundation just released its annual State Business Tax Climate Index and California is No. 48, ahead of only New York and New Jersey. At least we did not move in the wrong direction. We had the same sad ranking a year ago.

But that is expected to change, as New York, ranked 49th, passed a sweeping overhaul of its corporate tax code that will phase in over the next several years. That will likely mean California will fall back a slot.



Top marginal personal income tax rate: 50th
Personal income tax progressivity: 50th
Recently legislated tax changes: 49th
State liability system survey: 47th
State minimum wage: 39th
Average worker’s compensation costs: 48th
Right-to-work state: 50th


Considering what the union did in the matter detailed in the OP, how much more do you think businesses can handle and still ignore all the things you've suggested in order to pay 10-30% more than non-union businesses pay?
 
In addition to the issues presented in the OP, which you have commented on, how much do you think these additional facts related to liberal/progressive actions taken by the government have contributed to challenges in growing middle class jobs?


California ranks 48th for tax, 47th for business | Our City San Diego

We’re No. 48! It doesn’t quite have a catchy ring. But it does sound better than we’re third worst.

Sadly, that’s where California ranks among states when it comes to tax climate. The Tax Foundation just released its annual State Business Tax Climate Index and California is No. 48, ahead of only New York and New Jersey. At least we did not move in the wrong direction. We had the same sad ranking a year ago.

But that is expected to change, as New York, ranked 49th, passed a sweeping overhaul of its corporate tax code that will phase in over the next several years. That will likely mean California will fall back a slot.



Top marginal personal income tax rate: 50th
Personal income tax progressivity: 50th
Recently legislated tax changes: 49th
State liability system survey: 47th
State minimum wage: 39th
Average worker’s compensation costs: 48th
Right-to-work state: 50th


Considering what the union did in the matter detailed in the OP, how much more do you think businesses can handle and still ignore all the things you've suggested in order to pay 10-30% more than non-union businesses pay?
While we may not coddle business interests as much as other states, we're (California) certainly able to attract and maintain enough to be the biggest economy in the US. Atlas hasn't shrugged us yet.
 
I realize that scab friendly states undercut fair paying and safe jobs.

Whatever state does not get these jobs suffers the lost opportunity. No matter what happens, 49 states are not going to get this new plant. California could have been the lucky ones, but unions made it undesirable. Unions are antibusiness, anti-competition labor cartels that, like all parasites, are incapable of understanding they're killing their host. Or they just don't care.

I believe workers' rights should be strengthened nationally to prevent other states from allowing the race to the bottom that we've been seeing for decades now as middle class jobs disappear while corporate profits skyrocket.

Haha, brilliant. Anti-competition tactics from unions fail yet again and the response is to go crying to the Feds begging for more pro-union, anti-business legislation. Truly brilliant. Union parasitism causes business and wealth to flee and the response is "well then pass laws that prohibit fleeing." Total self-sabotage.
 
While we may not coddle business interests as much as other states, we're (California) certainly able to attract and maintain enough to be the biggest economy in the US. Atlas hasn't shrugged us yet.

:doh

California was once ranked 5th, it's slipped to 9th. But then again, your answer, and lack of it, wasn't unexpected. The attitude you've developed represents part of the problem, and the middle class suffers as a result.
 
Whatever state does not get these jobs suffers the lost opportunity. No matter what happens, 49 states are not going to get this new plant. California could have been the lucky ones, but unions made it undesirable. Unions are antibusiness, anti-competition labor cartels that, like all parasites, are incapable of understanding they're killing their host. Or they just don't care.



Haha, brilliant. Anti-competition tactics from unions fail yet again and the response is to go crying to the Feds begging for more pro-union, anti-business legislation. Truly brilliant. Union parasitism causes business and wealth to flee and the response is "well then pass laws that prohibit fleeing." Total self-sabotage.
When the median American worker is too fairly paid, we'll shift back towards protecting business interests. Until then I'll err on the side that favors middle class wallets.
 
When the median American worker is too fairly paid, we'll shift back towards protecting business interests. Until then I'll err on the side that favors middle class wallets.

You don't favor middle class wallets. It doesn't favor middle class wallets when unions chase jobs out of the state and country.
 
You don't favor middle class wallets. It doesn't favor middle class wallets when unions chase jobs out of the state and country.

It doesn't favor middle class wallets when undercutting is permitted, dropping the standards for everyone.
 
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