• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing

Top Cat

Top Cat

He's the most tip top
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 4, 2011
Messages
32,996
Reaction score
14,642
Location
Near Seattle
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Chapel Hill, North Carolina (CNN) -- For 18 years, thousands of students at the prestigious University of North Carolina took fake "paper classes," and advisers funneled athletes into the program to keep them eligible, according to a scathing independent report released Wednesday.
"These counselors saw the paper classes and the artificially high grades they yielded as key to helping some student-athletes remain eligible," Kenneth Wainstein wrote in his report. He conducted an eight-month investigation into the scandal, which has plagued the university for nearly five years.
Four employees have been fired and five more disciplined because of their roles. One other former employee had honorary status removed, Chancellor Carol Folt said Wednesday.
Wainstein is the former federal prosecutor hired by UNC to independently investigate the academic fraud brought to light by CNN, the Raleigh News & Observer and other media outlets

In all, the report estimates, at least 3,100 students took the paper classes, but adds the number "very likely falls far short of the true number."
For the first time since the scandal first came to light five years ago, UNC admitted that the wrongdoing went further than academics and involved its athletic programs.
In fact, Folt said, "it was a university issue."
A stellar reputation comes crashing down
UNC has long been a place where it was believed that athletics and academics went hand in hand. It has enjoyed a stellar reputation, producing basketball greats such as coach Dean Smith and Michael Jordan.
Now, that reputation has been stained.
Click to expand...

UNC athletics report finds 18 years of academic fraud - CNN.com

If this doesn't get a death penalty, nothing else will. Unbelievable.

From the article...

According to the report, one former head football coach, John Bunting, admitted to knowing of the paper classes and his successor, Butch Davis, also admitted some knowledge. Current men's basketball coach Roy Williams is steadfast that he did not know, Wainstein said.
Click to expand...
 
About 60 other schools have done essentially the same thing.

A high percentage of college football players at the big schools can barely read and write beyond a fifth-grade level.
 
It starts in high school. My son played wide reciever. He came home or got a mid term report he had a D in a class. I told him foot ball was over. The next day it was a C+. Sports are a big problem in our schools today. And I love college football.
Erod said:
About 60 other schools have done essentially the same thing.

A high percentage of college football players at the big schools can barely read and write beyond a fifth-grade level.
Click to expand...
 
mak2 said:
It starts in high school. My son played wide reciever. He came home or got a mid term report he had a D in a class. I told him foot ball was over. The next day it was a C+. Sports are a big problem in our schools today. And I love college football.
Click to expand...

Look at Jameis Winston. Now, try to call him a college student with a straight face.
 
mak2 said:
It starts in high school. My son played wide reciever. He came home or got a mid term report he had a D in a class. I told him foot ball was over. The next day it was a C+. Sports are a big problem in our schools today. And I love college football.
Click to expand...

Sports are not the problem, it's school administration giving the pass to allowing these kids to stay idiots and neglect their education.

If more parents did what you did and teachers affirmed this along the way, it'd be a different situation entirely.

It's laziness and irresponsibility on the part of both the players and the school administration.

Get that in order and everything will fall into place. Not that it will be an overnight thing without some shock to the current culture, but nothing drawn out, doesn't need to be.
 
The whole question boils down to this:

Should important colleges be primarily for students who have the mental capacity and drive to do the work---and should therefore only allow intelligent, motivated students to play in their important sporting events?

Or, should important colleges allow any student with a least an IQ of 70 (just above moron) to stay in as long as they will win them games?
 
Van Basten said:
Sports are not the problem, it's school administration giving the pass to allowing these kids to stay idiots and neglect their education.

If more parents did what you did and teachers affirmed this along the way, it'd be a different situation entirely.

It's laziness and irresponsibility on the part of both the players and the school administration.

Get that in order and everything will fall into place. Not that it will be an overnight thing without some shock to the current culture, but nothing drawn out, doesn't need to be.
Click to expand...

Football is the biggest source of revenue for these big schools. It lowers the cost for school for everybody else.

Doesn't make it right, I agree, but that's the reason.
 
I often hear this argument, but I am just not so sure why college costs so much. One of the schools I teach at cost the students 35- 38,000 annually to attend. I have 10-15 in my class. I dont make that much. They hvae 8-10 professors annually, mabye a few more. We have some nice buildings and utilities etc, but really, that much money and they still need football to pay for it?
Erod said:
Football is the biggest source of revenue for these big schools. It lowers the cost for school for everybody else.

Doesn't make it right, I agree, but that's the reason.
Click to expand...
 
Van Basten said:
Sports are not the problem, it's school administration giving the pass to allowing these kids to stay idiots and neglect their education.

If more parents did what you did and teachers affirmed this along the way, it'd be a different situation entirely.

It's laziness and irresponsibility on the part of both the players and the school administration.

Get that in order and everything will fall into place. Not that it will be an overnight thing without some shock to the current culture, but nothing drawn out, doesn't need to be.
Click to expand...

Sports=money.
 
donsutherland1 said:
IMO, these are the kinds of issues accreditors should more closely scrutinize, as they impact the core purpose of academic institutions.
Click to expand...

UNC is a great university. One of the nation's top public institutions. This is a ginormous black eye.
 
Top Cat said:
UNC is a great university. One of the nation's top public institutions. This is a ginormous black eye.
Click to expand...

Apparently it's not so great.
 
Thorgasm said:
Apparently it's not so great.
Click to expand...

Sadly this will tarnish a lot of great programs. But they ****ed themselves on this. I feel for the legitimate athletes who busted their asses.
 
The funny part of this particular scandal is that the football team appears to have been involved. North Carolina football sucks and pretty much always has. If you're going to cheat at least get some hardware out of it before you get caught, sheesh.:lol:
 
Van Basten said:
Sports are not the problem, it's school administration giving the pass to allowing these kids to stay idiots and neglect their education.

If more parents did what you did and teachers affirmed this along the way, it'd be a different situation entirely.

It's laziness and irresponsibility on the part of both the players and the school administration.

Get that in order and everything will fall into place. Not that it will be an overnight thing without some shock to the current culture, but nothing drawn out, doesn't need to be.
Click to expand...


No its deeper than that

The College's and the Schools are just a part of the process that happens AFTER a kid has been raised by parents who don't give a **** about education in general.

What would happen if College's around the Country started kicking a larger percentage of black athletes over whites out for not making the grade ?
 
Top Cat said:
UNC is a great university. One of the nation's top public institutions. This is a ginormous black eye.
Click to expand...

We agree. That's what makes it so troubling that such an institution could fail to deal with and correct the problem early on.

FWIW, its regional accreditor (the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools) has an integrity requirement (http://sacscoc.org/pdf/2012PrinciplesOfAcreditation.pdf: Section 1). The disclosed issue at UNC violated that principle, among some of the SACS other requirements. This integrity requirement is not too dissimilar to ethics-related requirements in the business world e.g., the SEC's requirements that public companyies' CEO and CFO certify the accuracy and completeness of their companies' quarterly and annual financial reports.
 
To be a good student you need to spend hours studying the material and be in class.

To be a great athlete, you have to spend hours practicing and working out.

There are only so many hours in a day.

Why realistically thought the athletes were studying to get the grades they actually got?
 
Fenton said:
LOL !!

UNC isn't the only school doing this by a long shot.

Vince Young ( University of Texas ) scored a 6 on the Wonderlick Aptitude test.
Click to expand...

Do I believe this could be happening elsewhere? Sure. But show me a link to support it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom