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Shooting at Canadian Parlament

Freedom of movement is not a basic right? I would have thought it a necessary condition for free association, communication of opinions and so on.

This is interesting. You are arguing for the basic right of movement for a man that was going to an area with no basic rights of any kind.

Does that make sense to you?
 
Oh, WE have to change for THEM? That's the worst strategy.

Maybe if all American women wore clothing head to foot, they would like us more.

I think Middleground wants to try that, so as to not upset them further.
 
No, I didn't say that either. But I do think we all must do what we can -- primarily through education and dialogue -- to change our ways of thinking and to prevent people from going extreme. Tell me... why do you think these radicals hate the West/America?
Let's not forget that they are murdering other Muslims as well and when they go out to fight it is not necessarily against 'the West'. Canada also does not have any Ward Churchills in its schools or preachers preaching "God Damn Canada!"
 
No. this was the act of a wannabe terrorist who won't be doing any more harm thanks to the courage of one man.

Why would you classify him as a wannabe?

What does somebody have to do to be an actual terrorist in your opinion?

is it the body count that moves them from wannabe status to full fledged terrorist?
 
How many people did the communusts murder? 100 million?
The poster knows nothing, but the problem is that much of the hatred of America begins in America. That should be exposed more frequently..
 
I do - I believe it's the responsible thing to do for a country to control those who wish to travel on the country's documents in order to cause death and destruction in other countries. A national passport is a privilege, not a right - a passport says to the world that this citizen of this country is law abiding and carries a form of "guarantee" that he/she is not a threat. Canadian passports are well respected and desired and many dual citizens travel only on their Canadian passport because of that respect/reputation. I've got no problem with revoking that privilege from anyone who wants to abuse it for illegal purposes.
I travel a lot and am in the tourist business so meet many people from all over the world. It seems to me that everyone from the western democracies takes pride in their passport and are ambassadors of what that passport represents, and they behave accordingly. It is more than just a license.
 
I understand the argument. But till the citizen has committed a crime? I really do not know. That is a very slippery slope we have ventured out on. If they state they want to fight against the interests of allies, I guess then we can argue validly. If it is only a (well documented) suspicion? If it goes wrong, then a government could suspect you.
This is one of the lesser ways our rights are being encroached. If any Canadian represents a threat to anyone outside our borders then it is our responsibility as good world citizens to prevent that threat from leaving.
 
Why would you classify him as a wannabe?

What does somebody have to do to be an actual terrorist in your opinion?

is it the body count that moves them from wannabe status to full fledged terrorist?



A lot more than what this loser did. He gave up his life for what?

What did he accomplish, other than maybe waking some people up?
 
A lot more than what this loser did. He gave up his life for what?

What did he accomplish, other than maybe waking some people up?

So you look at the outcome of his actions and not his intent? I am sure he did not intend to be taken out so quickly, so his body count would have been higher.

How many bodies does it take to be a real terrorist?
 
This is interesting. You are arguing for the basic right of movement for a man that was going to an area with no basic rights of any kind.

Does that make sense to you?

If that is what he wants to do? Reporters do it all the time. Hemingway wrote very good prose on his experience there. Who am I to judge another's happiness or pursuit thereof. If the guy professed intent of murder? But otherwise?
 
A lot more than what this loser did. He gave up his life for what?

What did he accomplish, other than maybe waking some people up?

Two acts of terror in Canada in just three days and both losers shot dead before they could do more harm. I haven't heard anyone complain yet about this swift justice, and don't expect to..
 
This is one of the lesser ways our rights are being encroached. If any Canadian represents a threat to anyone outside our borders then it is our responsibility as good world citizens to prevent that threat from leaving.

If a citizen poses a danger? In what sense? On what proof? If the citizen breaks the law, charge them. If not, the state has no business interfering. That is the difference we used to hold up between the free world and the enemy.
 
So you look at the outcome of his actions and not his intent? I am sure he did not intend to be taken out so quickly, so his body count would have been higher. How many bodies does it take to be a real terrorist?
Terrorism is also accomplished through violent riots, and threats of violence. That's why much of the western media refused to publish the Mohamed cartoons, the Comedy Central backing off, along with dozens of other examples. These acts of terror, along with charges of Islamophobia, serve a purpose. In two days or less Muslim groups will be condemning this act of violence along with concerns of "Islamophobia". This MO has been going on for years.
 
If a citizen poses a danger? In what sense? On what proof? If the citizen breaks the law, charge them. If not, the state has no business interfering. That is the difference we used to hold up between the free world and the enemy.
Both these jerks apparently posted their hatreds on Social Media, such as Facebook, and their intention were well known. I doubt the police selected them at random.

If we know someone is going to commit a crime, especially murder, then it is our responsibility to act rather than dithering over whether it is illegal or immoral. They may also have been trying to save these two individuals from themselves. The removal of their passports did not prevent their movement within the country though, in retrospect, it would have been wiser to shoot each of them a day earlier.
 
No, I didn't say that either. But I do think we all must do what we can -- primarily through education and dialogue -- to change our ways of thinking and to prevent people from going extreme. Tell me... why do you think these radicals hate the West/America?

You are saying do nothing and wait for them to attack here
 
Unlike the current President of the United States, our Canadian Prime Minister likes to get all the facts in from law enforcement and others before he starts opining on a situation. If this had been in Washington, I'm sure Obama would already be out telling the world that the dead terrorist could have been his son.


CJ

Why are you taking a tragedy like this to attack Obama on a race related issue.

This is so beneath you my man.
 
Both these jerks apparently posted their hatreds on Social Media, such as Facebook, and their intention were well known. I doubt the police selected them at random.

If we know someone is going to commit a crime, especially murder, then it is our responsibility to act rather than dithering over whether it is illegal or immoral. They may also have been trying to save these two individuals from themselves. The removal of their passports did not prevent their movement within the country though, in retrospect, it would have been wiser to shoot each of them a day earlier.
Bolded is the problem.
As to shooting them a day sooner, yeah that would be nice and soem good people would be alive today but how do you know when to shoot someone 1 day before they commit an act of terrorism?
 
Both these jerks apparently posted their hatreds on Social Media, such as Facebook, and their intention were well known. I doubt the police selected them at random.

If we know someone is going to commit a crime, especially murder, then it is our responsibility to act rather than dithering over whether it is illegal or immoral. They may also have been trying to save these two individuals from themselves. The removal of their passports did not prevent their movement within the country though, in retrospect, it would have been wiser to shoot each of them a day earlier.

Supposed intent is rather thin brew to ristrict citizens' rights on. And on social media? Based on that any half baked hacker could put you behind bars in a jiffy.
 
You don't have to visit that that site to know it's comprised of individuals who believe that people should "speak English or get out" White Nationalism and all that garbage. If you aren't a WASP then you're not right.

Can I take your word for that ? I don't read Stormfront or have never visited the website.

You must have.
 
If a citizen poses a danger? In what sense? On what proof? If the citizen breaks the law, charge them. If not, the state has no business interfering. That is the difference we used to hold up between the free world and the enemy.

https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/laws/regu/si-81-86/latest/si-81-86.html

10.1 Without limiting the generality of subsections 4(3) and (4) and for greater certainty, the Minister may refuse or revoke a passport if the Minister is of the opinion that such action is necessary for the national security of Canada or another country.
 
There are 12 pages. Does anyone knows what is going on still?
 
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