• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

You were.

they {people} don't deserve any better than I give them.

I know exactly how I come off...I know I rub people the wrong way.

I honestly do not give a rat's ass

And honestly (dinged or not) that just makes you a run of the mill jerk, nothing special.

The fact you admitted you were wrong when presented with the truth (though not about what you and I were discussing) immediately improves my desire to converse in a meaningful manner.

Not me...I don't have meaningful conversations with jerks because jerks aren't interested in such...Really they are only out there as someone to toy around with, but as far as anything "meaningful"? Like my dad always told me, 'Don't argue with fools, they only drag you down and waste your time....'
 
Benefit claims reports come out every week, actually. But why would the fact that there are reports about benefits claims mean they're used to calculate the official unemployment numbers???

Separate reports, by separate agencies....The Employment Situation is from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the weekly UI benefits claims are from the Employment and Training Administration of the Dept of Labor. (yes BLS falls under Labor too, but only administratively...operations are completely separate.)


5.9% is a long way off from 5%. There are also a lot of other factors that are important to look at too...such as discouraged and part time for economic reasons and real wages and average hours.

OMG, you are frustrating...This is silly....All you're going to continue to do is make your statements with no links to back up your thoughts, but dismiss every thought I have and demand that I give links....I don't really care anymore...If you want to say I lost, I was wrong, I was this, I was that...Fine, go ahead, you won the internet! WooHoo! Get bent.

I'm not a numbers guy anyway.
 
And honestly (dinged or not) that just makes you a run of the mill jerk, nothing special.
Only to those who show no desire for the truth if it interferes with their belief.

Not me...I don't have meaningful conversations
Because you might find out that what you believe is wrong.

And someone pointing out that you were wrong doesn't make them a progressive, it just means you were wrong.

with jerks because jerks aren't interested in such
Says the person who claims data is manipulated without anything more than "because I believe so" to support it.

By the way...where is your evidence I'm a progressive? Or is that just another "it's true because I want to believe it"?
 
In the home stretch of the 2012 presidential campaign, from August to September, the unemployment rate fell sharply — raising eyebrows from Wall Street to Washington.
The decline — from 8.1 percent in August to 7.8 percent in September — might not have been all it seemed. The numbers, according to a reliable source, were manipulated.
And the Census Bureau, which does the unemployment survey, knew it.
Just two years before the presidential election, the Census Bureau had caught an employee fabricating data that went into the unemployment report, which is one of the most closely watched measures of the economy.
And a knowledgeable source says the deception went beyond that one employee — that it escalated at the time President Obama was seeking reelection in 2012 and continues today.
“He’s not the only one,” said the source, who asked to remain anonymous for now but is willing to talk with the Labor Department and Congress if asked.

Census ‘faked’ 2012 election jobs report | New York Post

Uh huh....nothing to see here....Move along.
 
Uh huh....nothing to see here....Move along.

A guy loses a $80K corporate job, then takes two jobs to make $60K and avoid welfare to provide for his family.

That's a Democrat success story.
 
A guy loses a $80K corporate job, then takes two jobs to make $60K and avoid welfare to provide for his family.

That's a Democrat success story.

Yeah, according to them that's two jobs, AND the guy still gets to be counted as part of the wealthy and taxed all to hell...
 
Yeah, according to them that's two jobs, AND the guy still gets to be counted as part of the wealthy and taxed all to hell...

Well, for the official employment numbers (new jobs) the data is from a payroll survey, so multiple job holders will be counted as part of each payroll (no way around that), but for the household survey, used for the unemployment and labor force numbers, individuals are counted once, regardless of jobs:
Employment Situation Technical Note
 
Well, for the official employment numbers (new jobs) the data is from a payroll survey, so multiple job holders will be counted as part of each payroll (no way around that)...

So you admit that a person holding two jobs count as separate jobs in the UE numbers...Great...Those jobs don't show a bettering situation now do they? As for NO way around that....That's bunk...Sure there is...Start reporting those that are really unemployed.
 
So you admit that a person holding two jobs count as separate jobs in the UE numbers...

No, I didn't I said the opposite. What did you do, stop reading after the part you quoted. The next part was "but for the household survey, used for the unemployment and labor force numbers, individuals are counted once, regardless of jobs" (that should have been "regardless of number of jobs," but I think it's still clear.)

Two different surveys. One is used for the official employment numbers, the other is used for the UE and other labor force statistics. Read the damn link.
 
No, I didn't I said the opposite. What did you do, stop reading after the part you quoted. The next part was "but for the household survey, used for the unemployment and labor force numbers, individuals are counted once, regardless of jobs" (that should have been "regardless of number of jobs," but I think it's still clear.)

Two different surveys. One is used for the official employment numbers, the other is used for the UE and other labor force statistics. Read the damn link.

Aw, don't get mad dude...It's not my fault that the American people just laid the smack down on double speak like what you are pushing here....Just relax it'll be ok...Just give it some time to be actually fixed.
 
Aw, don't get mad dude...It's not my fault that the American people just laid the smack down on double speak like what you are pushing here....

Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it doublespeak. I note you still cannot admit any error on your part. You misread my post, and didn't bother to read the link. But you can't admit it.
 
Aw, don't get mad dude...It's not my fault that the American people just laid the smack down on double speak like what you are pushing here....Just relax it'll be ok...Just give it some time to be actually fixed.
The fact you're taunting someone who clearly knows way more than you on this subject about something you obviously did not comprehend is hilarious.
 
Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it doublespeak. I note you still cannot admit any error on your part. You misread my post, and didn't bother to read the link. But you can't admit it.

*Sigh* Good grief...It's true...Progressives really don't have a sense of humor...Chill dude...Look, I already said, and conceded that you know more than I do on the breakdown of how this is tabulated, and I already said I was wrong on how I characterized it earlier, I am not going to continue to do so just for your satisfaction...I am, maybe inartfully saying that there really is no reason to make things so complicated other than to construct a lie...Like Twain popularized: 'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'
 
.I am, maybe inartfully saying that there really is no reason to make things so complicated other than to construct a lie
Well, the situation is complex, so things can seem complicated. This is not meant to sound condescending, but most people have not really studied these matters (including many economists and politicians) and so don't understand the complexities. But the complexities are not meant to deceive, they're just based on many many factors most people don't think about because they don't need to. And that sometimes leads to disconnect.

I am more than happy to explain these complexities, but it is kind of annoying when people declare things to be true when basic research would have shown them wrong.

...Like Twain popularized: 'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'
Almost all the issues I've seen are politicians/pundits etc misrepresenting what the numbers mean. The data from the statistical agencies is of course not completely accurate (because that would be impossible) but as close as can be gotten with given resources.
 
But you still haven't articulated why people not trying to work should be considered unemployed, the same as people trying to work. And worse, you refuse to explain why some people not trying to work should not be counted and others should. The closest has been your claim that people "might" start looking one day, but that doesn't explain why they should be considered part of the labor market now.

Are you incapable of actually making an argument?


More lies to falsely protect Obama

Unemployment Rate Down As Americans Give Up On Work - Forbes

Why are people leaving the workforce? - CBS News
[/QUOTE]

You ignore they quit looking because there are no jobs. When economy improves they will again look
 
Real incomes are down. Starting to go back up. And the only people I've run across who think the job picture is false are those who don't understand the jobs numbers.

There are no jobs. The amount of jobs each month is not enough to keep up with this country. We get more illegals crossing the border each month than job growth
 
Well, the situation is complex, so things can seem complicated. This is not meant to sound condescending, but most people have not really studied these matters (including many economists and politicians) and so don't understand the complexities. But the complexities are not meant to deceive, they're just based on many many factors most people don't think about because they don't need to. And that sometimes leads to disconnect.

I am more than happy to explain these complexities, but it is kind of annoying when people declare things to be true when basic research would have shown them wrong.


Almost all the issues I've seen are politicians/pundits etc misrepresenting what the numbers mean. The data from the statistical agencies is of course not completely accurate (because that would be impossible) but as close as can be gotten with given resources.

I may not understand all of the complexity of the current methods, algorithms, and predictive sampling or whatever, but like I have said in other cases, I have two eyes, and can see what my main street looks like, I can see strip centers where shopping used to occur with open shops, and people in them used to be, but now have weeds growing up through the blacktop, and I can talk to friends whom lost jobs due to downsizing of the recession, and are still unemployed because they are "too old" to be employable to the few businesses that are hiring....And with that common sense analysis I can deduce that although some things have started a slow rebound, for the most part the "new normal" sucks.
 
I may not understand all of the complexity of the current methods, algorithms, and predictive sampling or whatever, but like I have said in other cases, I have two eyes, and can see what my main street looks like, I can see strip centers where shopping used to occur with open shops, and people in them used to be, but now have weeds growing up through the blacktop, and I can talk to friends whom lost jobs due to downsizing of the recession, and are still unemployed because they are "too old" to be employable to the few businesses that are hiring....And with that common sense analysis I can deduce that although some things have started a slow rebound, for the most part the "new normal" sucks.
:lol:

There's nothing so fun as refuting actual evidence with anecdotes.

Guess what. I can look down my main street and see businesses moving into town and flourishing. I can look at the new shops being built and can read the increased tax money being brought into the area. I have talked to people who didn't have a job during the recession who now have a very good job with better pay and benefits. And with that common sense analysis I can deduce that, while some things aren't quite what we want them to be, the economy has clearly done a great job rebounding.

So obviously this country is doing great, because in my very small corner of the world, things are going great. Is anecdotal evidence fun? The best part is you never have to actually prove what you're saying is correct or simply biasedly cherry-picked. It's awesome.
 
Back
Top Bottom