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Turkey Would Oppose US Arms Transfers to Kurds

Simpleχity;1063886807 said:
The US has re-supplied the Kurdish fighters in Kobane:

U.S. drops weapons, aid to Kurds fighting Islamic State in Syria

Under pressure, Turkey is finally allowing Kurdish reinforcements into Kobane:

Turkey helping Kurdish fighters cross into Kobani

This was a telling quote in the Post article you linked:

Kurds defending the Syrian border town also said they had not yet cleared the way for Iraqi Kurds — underscoring deep Kurdish differences despite their common enemy.

Hmm. Interesting comment. So the way I read this is the Syrian Kurds don't trust the Iraqi Kurds, even though the Syrian Kurds remain under intense military pressure.
 
Turkey is an ally in name only. They have done nothing for their billions in foreign aid other than frustrate the US every possible time they have the opportunity to do so. It's time we stopped all aid and removed our base from Incirlik. Since the Turks won't actually let us use it, it serves no purpose.

Turkey's NATO membership should be re-examined at the next NATO get-together.
 
The eternal ass-dragging of Congress will continue with vacations from July 31st save seven official days .

Ass-dragging is one of Obama's biggest characteristics.
 
Have you reviewed your own material?

Well, unlike you, I was trying to avoid cherry picking by presenting a "fair and balanced" complete academic assessment of these groups. So let me take this opportunity to be a little less impartial using the same source:

The PYD has been accused of close collaboration with both the PKK and the Syrian regime. There is substantial evidence to indicate the close relationship between the PKK and the PYD, especially at the leadership level.

The Kurdistan Workers’ Party’s (PKK) regional terrorist campaign resulted in the U.S. State Department designating the group as a Foreign Terrorist Organization in 1997. Most of its key leaders, including Abdullah Ocalan, Murat Karayilan, and Cemil Bayik, are listed on the U.S. Treasury Department’s Specially Designated Nationals list.
The PKK continues to advocate for armed struggle to achieve their political goals, and they hold a vested interest in the course taken by Syria’s Kurdish population. The PKK especially fears losing influence among Syria’s Kurds to the KRG, which reinforces the PKK’s interest in the military strength of their Syrian ally, the PYD.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan accused the Assad regime of attempting to destabilize Turkey by turning over much of the border region of northern Syria to the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) insurgents, reputed to have close ties to the PYD.

Cleavages persist between various parties within the KNC, which have hampered its ability to organize effectively. However, these divisions fall outside the scope of this discussion. The one factor uniting the KNC parties is their opposition to the PYD, which is why this paper refers to the KNC as a singular entity.

So what it looks like to me is we have some serious political divisions, but due to the current emergency the Iraqi Kurds are willing to set those aside for the moment in order to repel ISIS from Kurdish territory. What's not clear is whether the PYD folks are willing to put aside theirs.
 
Turkey's NATO membership should be re-examined at the next NATO get-together.

The operation in Syria has been done by the coalition not by NATO.

The membership of Turkey in NATO means more than you think; Actually how the USA sees it was described in the Reagen diaries. Obviously you are not aware of that diary, but we are.

I am sick of that song of money flowed into Turkey; You should check out how much money( billions of dollars) Turkey has lost since the first gulf war, plus refugee problem, plus PKK terrorists's safe heaven in Iraq for attacks to Turkey, plus destabilization in southeastern Turkey in respect to social, economical and industrial aspects.

If we start to compare the lost of Turkey with the aid of USA, You would be ashamed of bringing it on the table and making an argument out of it.


as for the thread, USA seems in a policy-shifting in the region even though Kerry claims otherwise in phone call with Erdoğan. That move of helping terrorists in Ayn Al-Arab is actually a historical and strategical move compared to action which is a small step.

USA officially recognises PKK as terrorist organisation but she supports a branch of it in Syria. USA is now sponsor of terrorism, and rough country. she supports a terrorist organisation that does attack and kill people of an ally country that recognises them terrorist.


That is very sad. That was not worth it.
 
The membership of Turkey in NATO means more than you think; Actually how the USA sees it was described in the Reagen diaries. Obviously you are not aware of that diary, but we are.

I'm not clamoring for Turkey's removal from NATO. In the past, there's little doubt that Turkey was an extremely important and valuable strategic ally. Unfortunately, under the AKP government, Turkey's reliability has waned. Without any doubt, I am greatly disappointed by this turn of events, especially as interests alone can't justify them. Ideology is playing a role and the critical ideological difference from past Turkish governments is the AKP's ideology.

The most optimistic appraisal is that the AKP is shifting Turkey onto a more non-aligned path, where it does not identify with U.S./Western allies/interests as closely as it once did, and its cooperation can no longer be assured. More negative appraisals exist, as well. Time will sort out the details concerning the nature of Turkey's foreign policy evolution. Hopefully, it's an AKP-related phenomenon and will prove temporary.
 
I'm not clamoring for Turkey's removal from NATO. In the past, there's little doubt that Turkey was an extremely important and valuable strategic ally. Unfortunately, under the AKP government, Turkey's reliability has waned. The most optimistic appraisal is that the AKP is shifting Turkey onto a more non-aligned path, where it does not identify with U.S./Western allies/interests as closely as it once did, and its cooperation can no longer be assured. More negative appraisals exist, as well. Time will sort out the details concerning the nature of Turkey's foreign policy evolution. Hopefully, it's an AKP-related phenomenon and will prove temporary.

What exactly is turkey's dilemma? If the Kurds have their traditional home back, can't turkey offer its Kurdish population a chance to join the new country?
 
I'm not clamoring for Turkey's removal from NATO. In the past, there's little doubt that Turkey was an extremely important and valuable strategic ally. Unfortunately, under the AKP government, Turkey's reliability has waned. The most optimistic appraisal is that the AKP is shifting Turkey onto a more non-aligned path, where it does not identify with U.S./Western allies/interests as closely as it once did, and its cooperation can no longer be assured. More negative appraisals exist, as well. Time will sort out the details concerning the nature of Turkey's foreign policy evolution. Hopefully, it's an AKP-related phenomenon and will prove temporary.

Are you aware of the thread? Because you claim Turkey does not take serious the interest of USA, however, the thread says USA is supporting a terrorist organisation that has attacked Turkey for decades and caused deaths, destabilization in some part of Turkey etc.

I can say that There will be reaction in Turkey for sure. I am just saying that will not be worth it. Arming a group of terrorist in a small town, just because to seem as hero in the eyes of public in your country at expense of ruining an alliance with a country does not seem a well-considered move/policy.

Before USA started to invade Iraq, Turkey had done many diplomatic moves in USA and Iraq. She did those moves, because she knew that If there was an intervention, that would ruin the state organisation in Iraq, and let Iraq slip into hands of Iran due to Shia majority in Iraq; at that time Iran did whatever she could in order to drag USA into Iraq. Now the same Iran tries to keep minority in Syria in power, Ironic?

Now there will be a shia block that controls oil in south and Russia will be in north for that duty. I do not even metnion other problems.
 
What exactly is turkey's dilemma? If the Kurds have their traditional home back, can't turkey offer its Kurdish population a chance to join the new country?

Turkey's fear is that if a separate Kurdish state were established in Iraq and/or Syria, parts of Turkey that have a significant Kurdish population would attempt to break away and join the Kurdish state. That isn't an unreasonable concern. I favor Turkey's retaining its territorial integrity, but believe a negotiated framework could assure that such a situation wouldn't occur if a Kurdish state is formed in Syria and/or Iraq.
 
Turkey's fear is that if a separate Kurdish state were established in Iraq and/or Syria, parts of Turkey that have a significant Kurdish population would attempt to break away and join the Kurdish state. That isn't an unreasonable concern. I favor Turkey's retaining its territorial integrity, but believe a negotiated framework could assure that such a situation wouldn't occur if a Kurdish state is formed in Syria and/or Iraq.

Turkey does not have to relinquish any teritory it just has to allow its Kurdish population the ability to move.
 
Are you aware of the thread? Because you claim Turkey does not take serious the interest of USA, however, the thread says USA is supporting a terrorist organisation that has attacked Turkey for decades and caused deaths, destabilization in some part of Turkey etc.

My initial position had been that arms should only be supplied to Syria's Kurdish defenders in exchange for a firm commitment that such assistance would not benefit the PKK. Unfortunately, Turkey's government chose a course where Kobani's security situation worsened and effectively eliminated such a conditional approach to aid.

Before USA started to invade Iraq, Turkey had done many diplomatic moves in USA and Iraq. She did those moves, because she knew that If there was an intervention, that would ruin the state organisation in Iraq, and let Iraq slip into hands of Iran due to Shia majority in Iraq; at that time Iran did whatever she could in order to drag USA into Iraq.

Turkey's past role was constructive. The AKP has taken Turkey on a different course that is not helpful.
 
My initial position had been that arms should only be supplied to Syria's Kurdish defenders in exchange for a firm commitment that such assistance would not benefit the PKK.

I don't think there's any realistic way to assure that doesn't happen.
 
I don't think there's any realistic way to assure that doesn't happen.

After the USA intervention in Iraq, pkk terrorists have been captured with usa made weapons and ıraqi army weapons; It is later understood that peshmerge has given those weapons to PKK terrorists.

I still do not get the point, but that will cause a historical trauma between two allies.
 
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I still do not get the point, but that will cause a historical trauma between two allies.

Honestly, I think the bigger problem for Turkey is to come to some sort of accommodation with the 18% of its population who are Kurd. Erdogan's Kurdish Initiative was the right thing to do, but banning political parties and tossing their members in prison because they're seen as subversive is counterproductive. We saw that the PKK was willing to negotiate ceasefires and even withdraw its soldiers to Northern Iraq, but Turkey's failure until recently to even permit entry of non-lethal aid in Kobani has enraged the Kurds. Dropping bombs on them isn't likely to reduce the threat from them, either. A better path is dialogue. Turkey has a great opportunity here to create goodwill with the Kurds if it aids them against ISIS. Turkey should understand also that if it doesn't confront ISIS, which seems to appeal to some young Muslim Turks, it will have a much larger "historical problem" within its borders.

Anger grows for Turkish Kurds over besieged Syrian town

Turkish Airstrikes on PKK Threaten Peace Process

10 Percent of ISIS Fighters Reportedly Turkish | Asbarez Armenian News
 
Honestly, I think the bigger problem for Turkey is to come to some sort of accommodation with the 18% of its population who are Kurd. Erdogan's Kurdish Initiative was the right thing to do, but banning political parties and tossing their members in prison because they're seen as subversive is counterproductive. We saw that the PKK was willing to negotiate ceasefires and even withdraw its soldiers to Northern Iraq, but Turkey's failure until recently to even permit entry of non-lethal aid in Kobani has enraged the Kurds. Dropping bombs on them isn't likely to reduce the threat from them, either. A better path is dialogue. Turkey has a great opportunity here to create goodwill with the Kurds if it aids them against ISIS. Turkey should understand also that if it doesn't confront ISIS, which seems to appeal to some young Muslim Turks, it will have a much larger "historical problem" within its borders.

Anger grows for Turkish Kurds over besieged Syrian town

Turkish Airstrikes on PKK Threaten Peace Process

10 Percent of ISIS Fighters Reportedly Turkish | Asbarez Armenian News

There is no such things like banning a political party; especially The pro-kurdish parties are free in Turkey, and There is now two pro-kurdish parties in the Turkish parliement, one of which is HDP with 27 representitives, and DBP with 1representitive. However, both of them are still in the same frame with PKK terrorists; If you read their statements and their actions, you can make the same conclusion. For example, 3 weeks ago the leader of HDP Selahattin Demirtaş called his voters for street protests; however, that protest turned into what could not be called a protest but something else, The result of that ''protest'' was nearly 40 civilians died, more than 1000 buildings including primary schools, library, blood donation centers, political parties' buildings, more than 1000 cars including ambulances, civilian cars etc were burnt.

Those attacks had been done after the call of a political party, That political party is still in Turkish parliement without feeling any guilt.

in last week PM Davutoğlu announced that the intel reports show that A symbolic amount of terrorists in Turkey have been withdrawn into Iraq that is in control of North Iraq and central Iraq government, both of whom are in power after USA intervention. Those terrorists should all have been withdrawn before the peace meetings started, also that was the first condition to start that process, but A terrorist organisation did not keep it in the first place, but Davutoğlu still continued that process.

Also Cemil Bayık,one of the ''leaders'' of pkk terrorist organisation, declared that They had sent those terrorists back into Turkey.


Turkey follows a reasonable and long term policy, she says The coalition should not fight with the IS alone, she should instead fight with Assad as well; otherwise it is today the IS, tomorrow will be another one unless Assad is gone.
 
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There is no such things like banning a political party....

Now, you're either grossly misinformed and living in Wonderland, or you're being disingenuous:

The decision today by Turkey's constitutional court to ban the pro-Kurdish Democratic Society Party demonstrates that Turkey urgently needs to reform its constitution and ensure its laws are compatible with human rights, Human Rights Watch said.

The court found that the party had promoted Kurdish separatism and unanimously issued a ruling to close down the party permanently and exclude 37 party members from politics for five years. The Democratic Society Party was the 25th political party closed down in Turkey since 1962.

Turkey: Kurdish Party Banned | Human Rights Watch

Recently your government has shown an increasing tendency to move away from an open, democratic society to a more authoritarian one by cracking down on dissent. It just banned Twitter, for crying out loud. And why would you not expect the PKK to move guerrillas back into Turkey after you starting bombing it? :confused:
 
Now, you're either grossly misinformed and living in Wonderland, or you're being disingenuous:



Recently your government has shown an increasing tendency to move away from an open, democratic society to a more authoritarian one by cracking down on dissent. It just banned Twitter, for crying out loud. And why would you not expect the PKK to move guerrillas back into Turkey after you starting bombing it? :confused:

I do not like to talk about such situations, if one side knocks the door with lack of information but full claims.

The news you posted dates 2009, and then A law was accepted to make it very hard to ban a political party. Those two pro-kurdish political parties' members, of HDP and DBP, in Turkish parliement did oppose that solution that outlaws banning political parties...

For 3 days PKK terrorists attacked an outpost in Dağlıca and Military did respond them accordingly, here is more detail:

The bombarded targets had reportedly been involved in “assassination, armed incidents and attacks on security bases” after last week’s nationwide protests.

Turkish fighter jets bomb PKK positions for first time since start of peace bid - LOCAL


I told you A symbolic amount of PKK terrorists was withdrawn; most of them still are in Turkey. The statment of PM Davutoğlu confirms that. Also one of so called terrorists' leaders Cemil Bayık said they have sent back that group into Turkey.


btw,I do not understand your stance here.
 
I do not like to talk about such situations, if one side knocks the door with lack of information but full claims.

It just seems as though your country is becoming more authoritarian, and that's going to create blowback (resistance--problems) for your government. This isn't just my opinion (Turkey: Authoritarian Drift Threatens Rights | Human Rights Watch).

For 3 days PKK terrorists attacked an outpost in Dağlıca and Military did respond them accordingly....

Well, you had 37 people die in clashes with the government. They were upset because not only didn't Turkey help the Kobani Kurds, but it actively prevented Kurdish fighters from entering the town to provide relief. Even non-lethal aid was prevented from entering Kobani. I understand Turkey relented on some of this due to international pressure, but I think it's also in your country's interest to get these Kurds out of refugee status and back to their homes in Syria.

btw,I do not understand your stance here.

On the one hand I understand your (Turkey's) reluctance to help the Syrian Kurds based on the political reality. I understand meeting force with force when your soldiers are attacked because the Kurds are angry. On the other hand, Turkey is not helping itself by further alienating people who comprise almost one-fifth of the country's population. Amazingly, the PKK's Ocalan still wants to negotiate peace. You need to move mountains if necessary to make it happen (Ocalan positive about peace with Turkey).
 
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