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Africa stems ebola via border closings, luck

I never ever said not to do it. I am just trying to show people that it's not remotely as simple as they believe.

We do have the ability to stop who gets off planes HERE, but we do not have the ability to stop it in other countries. And things get a lot more complicated when the planes are on our soil...esp. when there are Americans on them.

And 'Africa' doesn't understand crap and they, like us, have their own best interests in mind.

Who said it was simple? Its not easy, but its what needs to be done, and no-we dont deal with the problem on our shores. They dont get on planes because the planes aren't flying here. Americans abroad will have to deal with quarantine and thats because this is about stopping the spread of infectious disease, not harming Africans.

Africa understands enough to grasp communicable disease, thats enough.
 
I never ever said not to do it. I am just trying to show people that it's not remotely as simple as they believe.

You do realize this is absolutely futile right?

Partisan hacks care nothing about the realities of things. They just want to bash one party over the other. You cannot show the nuances of things to those who actively shut all forms of reason down to worship at the temple of partisanism. Fanatics don't view reason as something that is admirable. It's contemptible to them.

The logistical problems of enacting a travel embargo on everyone from West Africa and everyone that may have come into contact with a West African at any point in the past few months would in a sense require a global big brother the likes that not even 1984 could imagine. Colombia is trying this right now and it's not working. Especially if people lie, or travel across the border in some other fashion. And let's not even discuss the sheer economic cost of putting huge roadblocks in our economy's way.

This isn't the 1800s anymore. Despite the mentalities some here have.
 
Maybe the issue is not banning flights, but denying visas or cancelling visas already granted to people from those countries or people who have visited those countries, based on infectious risk. Surely it wouldn't stop an American citizen or dual citizen from coming in but at least it would cut down the odds. People say that banning flights is not the answer because it ignores the transmission mode (not airborne so a passenger would have to be vomiting/having diarrhea etc to contaminate fellow passengers. But this ignores the bigger problem: the long incubation rate. A passenger without symptoms like Mr. Duncan got a visitor's visa, entered America asymptomatic, then developed symptoms, and infected two American nurses. If Mr. Duncan had no valid visa he would be stopped at the airport (while still not contagious) from coming in and spreading the disease to two American citizens (and now a third may have it - the boyfriend of the first nurse). Every week we are getting more flights from West Africa. Soon enough more asymptomatic carriers will land and then develop the disease in our shores. I don't really understand why we should be granting visas or honoring visas already granted to people coming from Liberia, Guinea, and Sierra Leone, while they are ravaged with an infectious disease with a 70% killing rate. Dual citizens or our own citizens coming in from these countries should be admitted and quarantined for 21 days. Foreigners should have their visas cancelled or denied, and sent back, until their countries get the epidemic under control. Denying visas would even prevent indirect travel. If a Liberian flies to Frankfurt and from there boards a flight to the United States, he will only be allowed to do that if he has a valid US visa. So, this simple measure would cut down significantly the odds of more people flying in with the virus in their system but still not sick and contagious (then, developing the symptoms here and putting the US population at risk). Temperature screenings don't stop those. Visa denials do.
 
Too bad you don't show as much concern about the 4,500 soldiers we lost to a LIE last decade in Iraq compared to these 4,500.
And now you want to lose thousands more in Iraq.

And when President Ebola closes the borders, you'll blame him for the ensuing economic chaos.
Did you ever consider this disease might be a plant from Cheney last decade after the Kenyan was elected?

Every reliable non-partisan hack expert tells us that more problems will ensue by closing the borders than not.
Continue to play the fear-mongering Nixon card as you have played the war-mongering one.

Aren't you the least bit suspicious the problem in the USA began in secessionist Texas?
With a hospital that refused to implement the CDC protocol in July?
Too much of a coincidence for me knowing the GOP .

Uh wut?? :lol:
 
Too bad you don't show as much concern about the 4,500 soldiers we lost to a LIE last decade in Iraq compared to these 4,500.
And now you want to lose thousands more in Iraq.

And when President Ebola closes the borders, you'll blame him for the ensuing economic chaos.
Did you ever consider this disease might be a plant from Cheney last decade after the Kenyan was elected?

Every reliable non-partisan hack expert tells us that more problems will ensue by closing the borders than not.
Continue to play the fear-mongering Nixon card as you have played the war-mongering one.

Aren't you the least bit suspicious the problem in the USA began in secessionist Texas?
With a hospital that refused to implement the CDC protocol in July?
Too much of a coincidence for me knowing the GOP .

Do you ever get tired of being a total partisan hack. It is blind partisans like you on both sides that are the reason this country is in such a mess. Always blaming the other side and defending yours at all cost no matter how screwed up they may be is the exact reason why both parties are two sides of the same dis functional coin. It is sad really.
 
No, is that how you took it? I propose we close our border from nations proven to be currently experiencing an ebola outbreak-save our military and medical personnel.

I was just trying to get a clarification on your stance. Stopping flights from Ebola originating countries would be counterproductive.
 
I was just trying to get a clarification on your stance. Stopping flights from Ebola originating countries would be counterproductive.

Counter productive how ?
 
Too bad you don't show as much concern about the 4,500 soldiers we lost to a LIE last decade in Iraq compared to these 4,500.
And now you want to lose thousands more in Iraq.

And when President Ebola closes the borders, you'll blame him for the ensuing economic chaos.
Did you ever consider this disease might be a plant from Cheney last decade after the Kenyan was elected?

Every reliable non-partisan hack expert tells us that more problems will ensue by closing the borders than not.
Continue to play the fear-mongering Nixon card as you have played the war-mongering one.

Aren't you the least bit suspicious the problem in the USA began in secessionist Texas?
With a hospital that refused to implement the CDC protocol in July?
Too much of a coincidence for me knowing the GOP .

You don't think a widespread outbreak would cause an economic disaster?

And did you really just suggest that Cheney planted ebola because Obama got elected?
 
Counter productive how ?

As it stands now we know who is coming from Ebola infested countries and can take action for it. If we stop flights from those countries then people in those countries who want to come here will just use a different route. Then we won't know who is coming from those countries. The only way to stop people from coming here from those countries is stop all inbound flights.
 
As it stands now we know who is coming from Ebola infested countries and can take action for it. If we stop flights from those countries then people in those countries who want to come here will just use a different route. Then we won't know who is coming from those countries. The only way to stop people from coming here from those countries is stop all inbound flights.

They would be blocked from any route, direct or indirect.... via their passport and being stopped at whatever country they connect to.
 
Because those people cant just go to other countries and buy tickets and get on airplanes to come here?

And our military and medical personnel need to be quarantined before returning. I believe that's the plan for the military anyway.

You seem to have missed the first post in this therad wherein the news is that strict border controls have contained the virus to three countries... so those in the infected countries can't leave the country and board a plane to the US. The only chance they have to fly to the US is on a flight from the infected country to the US... which are mysteriously still available.
 
They would be blocked from any route, direct or indirect.... via their passport and being stopped at whatever country they connect to.

That's not what is being discussed in Washington. Many people are asking for flights from Ebola infested countries to be stopped. It's my thinking that if you want to go this route it would only be effective if you block all flights no matter what the origin. If you want to go the "flag passports" route I guess you could do that, but I'm not sure that all airports are equipped with the technology to do that.
 
hyperpartisan hackery aside, i do think that it's time to halt commercial flights from regions where Ebola is endemic. i could see special flights for aid workers after they complete the 21 day incubation period.
 
That's not what is being discussed in Washington. Many people are asking for flights from Ebola infested countries to be stopped. It's my thinking that if you want to go this route it would only be effective if you block all flights no matter what the origin. If you want to go the "flag passports" route I guess you could do that, but I'm not sure that all airports are equipped with the technology to do that.

I would guess most that fly into the US would be equipped to view a passport, identify the country of origin, and recognize if Western Africa was travel to within the past month. Some would surely make it through however, and they would be stopped upon entry into the US and quarantined - possibly with the rest of the flight depending upon the circumstances. Washington will get around to it eventually - the question is - will it then be too late? :shrug:
 
I would guess most that fly into the US would be equipped to view a passport, identify the country of origin, and recognize if Western Africa was travel to within the past month. Some would surely make it through however, and they would be stopped upon entry into the US and quarantined - possibly with the rest of the flight depending upon the circumstances. Washington will get around to it eventually - the question is - will it then be too late? :shrug:

Well, they just announced that they appointed an Ebola Czar so I guess it's all solved now. :2razz:
 
I was just trying to get a clarification on your stance. Stopping flights from Ebola originating countries would be counterproductive.

Really? Lessee, they have or have a potential for carrying ebola. Don't let them come to the US right now. Fairly simple.
 
And when President Ebola closes the borders, you'll blame him for the ensuing economic chaos.
Did you ever consider this disease might be a plant from Cheney last decade after the Kenyan was elected?

Aren't you the least bit suspicious the problem in the USA began in secessionist Texas?
With a hospital that refused to implement the CDC protocol in July?
Too much of a coincidence for me knowing the GOP .

Wow. Just wow.
 
hyperpartisan hackery aside, i do think that it's time to halt commercial flights from regions where Ebola is endemic. i could see special flights for aid workers after they complete the 21 day incubation period.

Considering that most flights are actually European transfers, we'd have to somehow lean on the Europeans to stop the flights. And that doesn't do anything to stop the transfer of disease from people already outside of West Africa. To actually prevent people who have the disease from flying to America, we'd either need to stop all international flights into the US or have some massive big brother program to know who every passenger encountered in the past month. What happens if someone who was sick ate at a European restaurant and infected the people there who then infected their relatives who are flying to the US? We cannot know this at the moment.

Partisan hackjobs are pretending like there are dozens of commercial direct flights from West Africa to the US daily. It's not the case. Europe is the main hub for West Africa to the rest of the world. The Middle East is another. Are we going to cut flights from them too? The reason why we haven't enacted bans is because they aren't simple and they almost certainly won't work.
 
Considering that most flights are actually European transfers, we'd have to somehow lean on the Europeans to stop the flights. And that doesn't do anything to stop the transfer of disease from people already outside of West Africa. To actually prevent people who have the disease from flying to America, we'd either need to stop all international flights into the US or have some massive big brother program to know who every passenger encountered in the past month. What happens if someone who was sick ate at a European restaurant and infected the people there who then infected their relatives who are flying to the US? We cannot know this at the moment.

Partisan hackjobs are pretending like there are dozens of commercial direct flights from West Africa to the US daily. It's not the case. Europe is the main hub for West Africa to the rest of the world. The Middle East is another. Are we going to cut flights from them too? The reason why we haven't enacted bans is because they aren't simple and they almost certainly won't work.

but we now have people on flights who are obviously from that region. even if a travel restriction policy isn't one hundred percent effective, requiring a quarantine before getting on a plane and leaving the region is common sense. we pretty much already have enough digital information about where people are traveling from, regardless of connecting flights.

basically, it's possible that it will boil down to doing it now or doing it later. we need to have special non commercial flights for the aid workers (with quarantine,) and restrictions for everyone else flying commercially.
 
No, is that how you took it? I propose we close our border from nations proven to be currently experiencing an ebola outbreak-save our military and medical personnel.
How would we track someone who went through another country and went undetected for days before discovered?
 
but we now have people on flights who are obviously from that region.

True, but we also have lots of people who have been in contact with people from that region flying in as well. What are we going to do, stop European nationals as well?

even if a travel restriction policy isn't one hundred percent effective, requiring a quarantine before getting on a plane and leaving the region is common sense. we pretty much already have enough digital information about where people are traveling from, regardless of connecting flights.

But what's the point in that if these very same people are hanging around for hours in densely packed airports, trains and cities? Yeah we can hold them....but the whole infection thing is still going on in the transit areas. Honestly, this just looks like political pandering. What's the difference in blocking someone who's 6 days infected from West Africa but letting in a Frenchmen who's 3 days infected? Just sayin'. If were honest with ourselves, we'd embargo all international flights.
 
True, but we also have lots of people who have been in contact with people from that region flying in as well. What are we going to do, stop European nationals as well?



But what's the point in that if these very same people are hanging around for hours in densely packed airports, trains and cities? Yeah we can hold them....but the whole infection thing is still going on in the transit areas. Honestly, this just looks like political pandering. What's the difference in blocking someone who's 6 days infected from West Africa but letting in a Frenchmen who's 3 days infected? Just sayin'. If were honest with ourselves, we'd embargo all international flights.

i see no upside to letting non-quarantined travelers from West Africa into the US on commercial flights. we wouldn't hold them. they would be quarantined before getting on a plane in West Africa in the first place.

for aid workers and patients to be treated in the US, special military flights under controlled conditions.
 
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