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Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons, internal communications

Ockham said:
My hope is the pastors will not comply with the subpoena's and a constitution suit ensues. The pastors I hope will go to jail rather than comply. Sometimes government needs to be called on the mat and who better than the church to push back and say no. If Houston attorney's want information on the sermons, I'm sure they would be welcomed to come Sunday mornings and listen.
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The Mayor is backtracking now .

Saying she had no idea that the Pastors were going to be targeted and is now blaming the Subpoenas on "pro-bono " attorney's.

She's a liar. Yesterday she tweeted that these Pastor's were " fair game".
 
Fenton said:
The Mayor is backtracking now .

Saying she had no idea that the Pastors were going to be targeted and is now blaming the Subpoenas on "pro-bono " attorney's.

She's a liar. Yesterday she tweeted that these Pastor's were " fair game".
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Political damage control from the national blow-back...
 
Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

roguenuke said:
Not when the city has the right to know how the signatures were gathered, including while done in churches.
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And as you realize, any concerns of illegality held by the city need to be specific, not blanket

Face it, the City of Houston took punitive action (rejected signatures) against a dissident group based solely on the vague and unsupported word of a partisan group pre disposed not to like the dissidents. The fact that the targeted dissident group is opposed to the policies near and dear to the City of Houston makes their biased action stink even more. Then, the City goes on a fishing expedition to find the evidence to support their punitive action.

Here is a lesson for the Mayor of Houston:

First, evidence is gathered. Second, the evidence is evaluated. Third, if warranted, a punishment is imposed. not
First punish. Second, sramble to find evidence to "justify" the punishment.

roguenuke said:
Oh, and the fact that the city didn't sue the group. The group started the court proceedings. So your analogy doesn't fit at all. Plus, the only "punitive action" is the invalidation of the signatures on the petition.
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Aside from non material details, my analogy fits perfectly: I, Cryptic, do not like Planned Parenthood. I"ll make a very vague accusation to Governor Perry and Greg Abbott that they violated an administrative or regualtory rule. Perry and Abbott are also opposed to Planned Parenthood.

Would it be better for Governor Perry to gather real evidence (other than my vague and unsupported partisan word) before punishing? Or, should they punish first, and then go on a fishing expedition to "justify" it?
 
Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

polgara said:
Greetings, AliHajiShwik. :2wave:

She is openly lesbian, and her partner lives with her - but female sexuality is not mentioned in the Bible, to my knowledge.
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Romans 1:26
 
Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

Napoleon said:
The funny thing about this is that this is the first time I have ever heard a pastor say he doesn't want people to know the content of his sermons. :mrgreen:
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I always say that the congregation has forgotten them by Tuesday and I have forgotten them by Wednesday.
 
Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

Ockham said:
My hope is the pastors will not comply with the subpoena's and a constitution suit ensues. The pastors I hope will go to jail rather than comply.
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I keep telling these people who want to revoke the Church's tax exempt status: do that and you are going to get more of this in spades, and there won't be a damn thing you can do about it. They will be able to talk about anything they want.

If Houston attorney's want information on the sermons, I'm sure they would be welcomed to come Sunday mornings and listen.
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Can I hear an "amen"?
 
Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

Ceist said:
And you are still making up hysterical shyte.
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Prove it.
 
Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

nota bene said:
You think that Houston has mistreated gay people?!
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Houston might not have but the state and nation have a history of it. Houston is not an island.
 
Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

roguenuke said:
No, it isn't. At the most it is being used to gather information to invalidate signatures. Whether the signatures were actually "ill gotten" or not remains to be seen and is for the courts to decide, but it gathering the information has nothing to do with "silencing dissent".
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There's no information for them to gather. How can the sigs be "ill gotten"?
 
Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

it's just me said:
Romans 1:26
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Greetings, it's just me. :2wave:

Thank you. :thumbs: I stand corrected - and I thought I knew my Bible. My teachers must be disappointed in me! :sigh:
 
Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

apdst said:
There's no information for them to gather. How can the sigs be "ill gotten"?
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There are rules for how/when signatures can be gotten or who they can be gathered from. I have no idea what the issue is with their signatures that had the city rejecting some. Maybe there really was no issue and they were simply stalling. Or maybe they were being told to sign multiple times or asked to sign when they weren't supposed to. That is the point though. If they have a case, then they can get information pertaining to the case, including if the people signing were being instructed to sign them in a way invalidates the signatures. Did this happen? I don't know. That is what the court is for. The city is claiming though that some of many of the sigs are not valid, so they have a right to get information that they feel legitimately supports that position.
 
Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

roguenuke said:
There are rules for how/when signatures can be gotten or who they can be gathered from. I have no idea what the issue is with their signatures that had the city rejecting some. Maybe there really was no issue and they were simply stalling. Or maybe they were being told to sign multiple times or asked to sign when they weren't supposed to. That is the point though. If they have a case, then they can get information pertaining to the case, including if the people signing were being instructed to sign them in a way invalidates the signatures. Did this happen? I don't know. That is what the court is for. The city is claiming though that some of many of the sigs are not valid, so they have a right to get information that they feel legitimately supports that position.
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I'm betting it's bull**** political bullying because Parker already crawfishin.

Mayor, city attorney distance themselves from sermon subpoenas - Houston Chronicle
 
Fenton said:
The Mayor is backtracking now .

Saying she had no idea that the Pastors were going to be targeted and is now blaming the Subpoenas on "pro-bono " attorney's.

She's a liar. Yesterday she tweeted that these Pastor's were " fair game".
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The use, here, of the term “fair game” reminds me of the use of the term of which I have heard in connection with Scientology.

Fair Game (Scientology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The term Fair Game is used to describe policies and practices carried out by the Church of Scientology towards people and groups it perceives as its enemies. Founder L. Ron Hubbard established the policy in the 1950s, in response to criticism both from within and outside his organization. Individuals or groups who are "Fair Game" are judged to be a threat to the Church and, according to the policy, can be punished and harassed using any and all means possible. In 1968, Hubbard officially canceled use of the term "Fair Game" because of negative public relations it caused, although the Church's aggressive response to criticism continued.

Applying the principles of Fair Game, Hubbard and his followers targeted many individuals as well as government officials and agencies, including a program of covert and illegal infiltration of the IRS and other U.S. government agencies during the 1970s. They also conducted private investigations, character assassination and legal action against the Church's critics in the media. The policy remains in effect and has been defended by the Church of Scientology as a core religious practice.​

We've certainly seen—and this appears to be an example—the use of Scientology-style “fair game” treatment by the pervert-rights movement against its perceived enemies.
 
Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

apdst said:
I'm betting it's bull**** political bullying because Parker already crawfishin.

Mayor, city attorney distance themselves from sermon subpoenas - Houston Chronicle
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The history on this is a bit strange.
Press Release
The folks bringing the Petition collected 5199 pages of signatures,
the city rejected all but 2449 them equaling to 15,249, less than the 17269 necessary
for the repeal to get on the ballot.
The petitioners brought suite, about the rejected sheets.
If the city had rejected the 2750 sheets on a legal basis, one would thing that would be easy
to defend in court.
 
Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

longview said:
The history on this is a bit strange.
Press Release
The folks bringing the Petition collected 5199 pages of signatures,
the city rejected all but 2449 them equaling to 15,249, less than the 17269 necessary
for the repeal to get on the ballot.
The petitioners brought suite, about the rejected sheets.
If the city had rejected the 2750 sheets on a legal basis, one would thing that would be easy
to defend in court.
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Kinda depends on what they were claiming the signatures were an issue with. It is strange that they subpoenaed the information they did if the problem was irregularities such as missing addresses, phone numbers, names, etc., not registered to vote, or problems with those who were getting the petitions signed. However, it could just be that there are some sigs that are being claimed are from before or something like that. Does anyone know what the time period was for the documents requested by the subpoena? Was it within the time frame of the petition (they have 30 days) or outside of that, suggesting that some of the sigs may have been gathered before the 30 days, which could possibly be shown as evidence that they got those sigs before the time frame they were supposed to start.
 
Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

polgara said:
Greetings, it's just me. :2wave:

Thank you. :thumbs: I stand corrected - and I thought I knew my Bible. My teachers must be disappointed in me! :sigh:
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Nothing to be embarrassed about, I've spent a lot of time in Romans and the NT in general...
 
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