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‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

public teachers have a tough gig.....i think most people get and understand that fact

lots of problems with the system....and with the schools being used as babysitters, not places of education

they get average pay.....and have little support in a lot of places

that said....there needs to be changes.....bad teachers have to go....period

i would have zero issue giving teachers a 25% across the board raise if they would stop protecting bad tenured teachers

i also want the administrative staffs cut.....and the schools to get back to the basics

there is absolutely no reason why schools cant teach music, art, history, math, and science to our kids....yet they fail miserably in a lot of cases

we have to get ahold of this issue.....
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

Karl said:
Outlawing tenure would not make any measurable difference, it is merely a wedge issue to disempower unions and get the corporatist right one step closer to their goal -- the complete and total elimination of unions. If you were to outlaw tenure, they would suddenly 'expose' yet another issue that is suddenly a 'travesty' in the teachers union which is destroying the education of 'our children' :roll:
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My biggest gripe is tenure. Corporatist blah blah blah aside...it should be legal to fire someone who does a crappy job. Any argument to the contrary is insane and in favor of lazy workers keeping their job.

Disliking crappy lazy workers being protected isn't a right or left thing. It is about giving a job to those who DESERVE the job thing.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

gdgyva said:
public teachers have a tough gig.....i think most people get and understand that fact

lots of problems with the system....and with the schools being used as babysitters, not places of education

they get average pay.....and have little support in a lot of places

that said....there needs to be changes.....bad teachers have to go....period

i would have zero issue giving teachers a 25% across the board raise if they would stop protecting bad tenured teachers

i also want the administrative staffs cut.....and the schools to get back to the basics

there is absolutely no reason why schools cant teach music, art, history, math, and science to our kids....yet they fail miserably in a lot of cases

we have to get ahold of this issue.....
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Bingo!!! Right now you have people going to school and getting master's degrees to become educators. They are turning education into a REAL science. I have personally taught and gone through some of these classes. A lot of these teachers deserve a quality pay check. Especially in a public school environment.

But I flatly refuse to support their union. All because they refuse to get rid of tenure. Tenure is a joke. It has SOME merit (protecting someone who shares their views...but that can be done legally without a union). But now it protects bad educators. Sad.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

stonewall50 said:
My biggest gripe is tenure. Corporatist blah blah blah aside...it should be legal to fire someone who does a crappy job. Any argument to the contrary is insane and in favor of lazy workers keeping their job. Disliking crappy lazy workers being protected isn't a right or left thing. It is about giving a job to those who DESERVE the job thing.
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First, it is legal to fire a teacher. Your own link a few posts back showed that teachers are indeed fired. The writer of that article was simply unhappy that not enough of them had been fired (in his opinion, which he really did not substantiate). So your argument is a strawman.

Got anything logical/rational, or is that it?
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

stonewall50 said:
[...] But I flatly refuse to support their union. All because they refuse to get rid of tenure. [...]
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As I noted earlier, I strongly suspect that if tenure was eliminated the right would find another reason to oppose teachers unions (and all unions). At the end of the day, tenure -- like the union -- helps prevents the employer from abusing/intimidating the employee; it appears the right doesn't like that.

Is tenure abused? At times, probably so.

If tenure were eliminated, would that allow employers to abuse teachers? At times, probably so.

So, six of one, half of dozen of the other. At the end of the day, who are you going to side with -- the employee or the employer? When it comes to Republicans, we already have the answer, which explains their efforts to bust unions -- to reduce support for the Democrat politicians who tend to take the side of the employee over the employer.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

stonewall50 said:
[...] [Tenure] has SOME merit (protecting someone who shares their views...but that can be done legally without a union). [...]
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How ?
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

ocean515 said:
LOL

Because you say so? Your obsession is noted. However, facts aren't impressed by your claim. While I'm not trying to defend anything ALEC does, ALEC pales in the light of the breadth and reach of the Progressive Machine.
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Yeah... no. ALEC owns your state government and is now working to own your local government as well.


Conservative group Alec trains sights on city and local government

• American Legislative Exchange Council forms new initiative
• Offshoot will target ‘villages, towns, cities and counties’​


You point to money in elections which the right wing owns far and away beyond the left... you don't even look at the fact that ALEC is busy between elections writing bills and handing it to their stooges who then just submit them without even reading them.

These are the facts. Ignore them if you like.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

TurtleDude said:
unions are dinosaurs whose power is gradually being destroyed by global labor markets. Only in captive industries such as government workers, will the Unions survive and unions should be banned in the public sector since oftentimes those negotiating "against" the Union are beholden to the Union for their office
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Unions are dinosaurs in the "global economy" which is just a term that politicians use to say "I can't do anything for us our our economy because my hands are tied by the global economy" as they cast their votes for free trade agreements that have us competing with child, prison and slave labor in other countries. Free trade is a farce that killed unions and our middle class. And gutless politicians on both sides can own that burden.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

TurtleDude said:
you deny that public sector unions don't drive up the costs to taxpayers. what about crap like Davis-Bacon or union controlled municipalities that have "prevailing wage" requirements in their contracts?
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The unions do push up wages for workers, but market pressures push back at pricing hikes. So to make the one on one comparison that wage hikes = price hikes while ignoring all other pressures on costs and prices isn't accurate. It's not just wages that effect prices. I'll say that wages CAN push prices up but not that it WILL push up prices.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

poweRob said:
Unions are dinosaurs in the "global economy" which is just a term that politicians use to say "I can't do anything for us our our economy because my hands are tied by the global economy" as they cast their votes for free trade agreements that have us competing with child, prison and slave labor in other countries. Free trade is a farce that killed unions and our middle class. And gutless politicians on both sides can own that burden.
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I need a good chuckle-what is your solution?
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

poweRob said:
The unions do push up wages for workers, but market pressures push back at pricing hikes. So to make the one on one comparison that wage hikes = price hikes while ignoring all other pressures on costs and prices isn't accurate. It's not just wages that effect prices. I'll say that wages CAN push prices up but not that it WILL push up prices.
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actually in union run cities prevailing wage nonsense screws the taxpayers
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

TurtleDude said:
I need a good chuckle-what is your solution?
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Drop the free trade policies and go back to fair trade standards we had for most of the history of this country where we have tariff free trade with countries who meet fair labor and environment standards we set and place varied tariffs on countries' goods who don't meet these standards. Economic and environmental standards that we already hold up for ourselves. Not dumping raw waste in the neighboring rivers. No child labor. No prison labor. No slave labor.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

poweRob said:
Drop the free trade policies and go back to fair trade standards we had for most of the history of this country where we have tariff free trade with countries who meet fair labor and environment standards we set and place varied tariffs on countries' goods who don't meet these standards. Economic and environmental standards that we already hold up for ourselves. Not dumping raw waste in the neighboring rivers. No child labor. No prison labor. No slave labor.
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and what will be the ramifications of that in terms of countries such as China, India, etc that supply so much of our consumer goods?
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

TurtleDude said:
and what will be the ramifications of that in terms of countries such as China, India, etc that supply so much of our consumer goods?
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I know, I know, pick me! :)
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

poweRob said:
Yeah... no. ALEC owns your state government and is now working to own your local government as well.


Conservative group Alec trains sights on city and local government

• American Legislative Exchange Council forms new initiative
• Offshoot will target ‘villages, towns, cities and counties’​


You point to money in elections which the right wing owns far and away beyond the left... you don't even look at the fact that ALEC is busy between elections writing bills and handing it to their stooges who then just submit them without even reading them.

These are the facts. Ignore them if you like.
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LOL

You've presented no facts, so your opinion is easy to ignore. The fact is the left decimates the right in spending and in political activity. Perhaps you should avoid proving you are woefully lacking in any true facts on the subject other than those you have been led to believe.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

RedAkston said:
I know, I know, pick me! :)
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Of course you do. but for the sake of the kids in the back row. tell us!!:mrgreen:
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

Fenton said:
Not paying the Union their dues and being allowed to keep more of your paycheck is " freeloading " ?
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Yes, because you'd only be making about half of what you are paid if the union didn't exist. High rise construction jobs were paying upwards of $25/Hr. when the carpenters union held the contracts in Dallas in 1982. After they were ousted, the same jobs paid $14/Hr. to start.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

Fenton said:
Not paying the Union their dues and being allowed to keep more of your paycheck is " freeloading " ?
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Everyone is also freeloading who did not serve in the military. They should be forced to give their votes to military members.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

poweRob said:
Drop the free trade policies and go back to fair trade standards we had for most of the history of this country where we have tariff free trade with countries who meet fair labor and environment standards we set and place varied tariffs on countries' goods who don't meet these standards. Economic and environmental standards that we already hold up for ourselves. Not dumping raw waste in the neighboring rivers. No child labor. No prison labor. No slave labor.
Click to expand...
There are many who feel Americans cannot make changes to other countries who have their own culture and customs. This was an especially common cliche in the Middle East. Now you want to do it through trade?

This would cripple the USA economically and would not have an effect anywhere. In fact the way to change people is to open the markets in order that cultures can change and adapt to modern times. We can already see the positive changes made in China and India through trade and how their countries are changing as a consequence. This is no time to return to revisit retrogressive areas such as Smoot–Hawley Act.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

Blue_State said:
Everyone is also freeloading who did not serve in the military. They should be forced to give their votes to military members.
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Perhaps it's time the Draft was reintroduced. There'd likely be fewer Red and Blue States and more 'American' States.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

Karl said:
How ?
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You pass a law that says you can't fire without cause. OR a law that says you are not allowed to fire someone based on their political views. There are dozens of ways to word it so that a teacher doesn't get thrown out for any number of reasons. You don't need a union for these laws to exist.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

stonewall50 said:
You pass a law that says you can't fire without cause. OR a law that says you are not allowed to fire someone based on their political views. There are dozens of ways to word it so that a teacher doesn't get thrown out for any number of reasons. You don't need a union for these laws to exist.
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the union is needed to enforce those prospective laws in the workplace
management and labor negotiate a contract, to which both execute showing their agreement
but a union is needed to enforce the contract provisions and/or to interpret the intent of the contract terms
the union levels the playing field of the parties. without collective bargaining, the employer can exploit the vulnerability of a single employee
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

stonewall50 said:
You pass a law that says you can't fire without cause. OR a law that says you are not allowed to fire someone based on their political views. There are dozens of ways to word it so that a teacher doesn't get thrown out for any number of reasons. You don't need a union for these laws to exist.
Click to expand...

Who would lobby for these laws if there were no unions?
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

I'll consider being opposed to unions when employers are banned from joining business organizations, hiring lawyers and having HR staffs. Until then workers need unions to have a fighting chance.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

justabubba said:
the union is needed to enforce those prospective laws in the workplace
management and labor negotiate a contract, to which both execute showing their agreement
but a union is needed to enforce the contract provisions and/or to interpret the intent of the contract terms
the union levels the playing field of the parties. without collective bargaining, the employer can exploit the vulnerability of a single employee
Click to expand...


i know a few labor lawyers that would disagree with that statement

we live in a VERY litigious society....been sued so many times now, the paperwork no longer even raises my blood pressure

Had to settle a couple....mostly sexual harassment from bad employees...happens when you have over 140 employees no matter how much training we do

One bad slip and fall on the premises...those types of things

Been sued a number of times regarding employment

people claiming all sorts of things....not promoted.....not paid fairly.....unfair practices.....etc

lost exactly zero of these....settled none....

i think you will find in todays workplace, most employers are very aware of workers rights......

and they do everything in their power to make sure they are upheld......

not doing so is just stupid business practice......and no one in business i know can afford to do business that way
 
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