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Chimpanzees' rights case argued at New York appeals court hearing

Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

The way we treat cattle, and pigs, and animals in general is ridiculous. If something feels pain it should be illegal to hurt it for no reason. At least let these animals lead a half normal life before eating them. Keeping them in pens they cant even turn around in their whole life.... If I were an alien I wouldnt help earth. We dont have to give chimps rights to be human. But they should have a right to be a chimp.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

Cardinal said:
I know, but as I suggested to Fletch, they deserve a category that, while not human, per se, is definitely above other animals.

There's reasoning:



Study shows chimps capable of insightful reasoning ability

Communication:


The 66 gestures which show how chimpanzees communicate - Telegraph

Communication with humans using ASL:



HowStuffWorks "Chimpanzee Communication"

They're self aware:



Chimps Are Self Aware : Discovery News

And finally, the very foundation one would need for discerning right from wrong:


Big Question: Do animals have a sense of right and wrong? : Discovery Channel
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Imagine the same lineage of chimps being taught sign language for a few hundred years. Im pretty sure almost each new birth would produce a chimp that is more capable of hand signs. Would be interesting to see if a chimps last born is more savy than a chimps first born because perhaps some genetic info from the parents had more time to trickle down as the parent learned and taught. aka how programmable is "passed down" dna for 1 life cycle and does chimp pass more different genetic info at 20% lifecycle compared to and old 80%+ chimp.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

recalcitrant said:
Chimpanzees' rights case argued at New York appeals court hearing - CBS News

Every chimp should go to school and vote in elections and get food stamps and own a gun and be read their miranda rights when being put under arrest
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So should the mentally disabled not be granted basic rights then? For example, if an individual has down's syndrome and has the mental capacity of a 4 year old as an adult, should they be able to be kept in a cage their entire life and be subject to medical experiments?

Chimpanzees, as well as most whale and dolphin species, elephants, orangutans, and gorillas, are unique in the animal kingdom in that they are self aware, have cultures that they pass down from generation to generation, in most cases mourn their dead, can empathize with other animals and humans, and in the case of elephants, are even capable of creating art (many like to paint). So why would we not grant them some basic rights that we would not grant a lab rat for example? No one is arguing they should be able to vote, enter into contracts, qualify for Social Security, or hold elected office. What is being argued is that a chimpanzee, our closest living relative (in fact we are simply a third chimpanzee species in evolutionary terms), should be granted basic rights such as the right to not be imprisoned in solitary confinement its entire life, the right to not be subjected to crippling medical experiments, basically the right to live the life of a chimpanzee. What is wrong with that?
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

Mr.Nick said:
Well, do u want a bunch of chimps running around like monkeys run around India?..
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Yes.

Also, you do realize that all primates can be quite vicious? who are you going to sue when some ape bites your nose off - the government?
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I'm gonna sue the ape with Steven Wise as their attorney.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

SouthernDemocrat said:
So should the mentally disabled not be granted basic rights then? For example, if an individual has down's syndrome and has the mental capacity of a 4 year old as an adult, should they be able to be kept in a cage their entire life and be subject to medical experiments?
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No.


Chimpanzees, as well as most whale and dolphin species, elephants, orangutans, and gorillas, are unique in the animal kingdom in that they are self aware, have cultures that they pass down from generation to generation, in most cases mourn their dead, can empathize with other animals and humans, and in the case of elephants, are even capable of creating art (many like to paint). So why would we not grant them some basic rights that we would not grant a lab rat for example? No one is arguing they should be able to vote, enter into contracts, qualify for Social Security, or hold elected office. What is being argued is that a chimpanzee, our closest living relative (in fact we are simply a third chimpanzee species in evolutionary terms), should be granted basic rights such as the right to not be imprisoned in solitary confinement its entire life, the right to not be subjected to crippling medical experiments, basically the right to live the life of a chimpanzee. What is wrong with that?
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I agree. Why not? I just don't want any illegal dolphins, illegal apes or illegal elephant immigrants sneaking across our borders and taking up all of our resources.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

I'm not unsympathetic to the idea of chimp rights, they're our cousins after all, but what about crows?

 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

recalcitrant said:
Chimpanzees' rights case argued at New York appeals court hearing - CBS News

Every chimp should go to school and vote in elections and get food stamps and own a gun and be read their miranda rights when being put under arrest



Yeah well I AM! Steven Wise isn't going far enough!

Knowing the republicans though they'll make polling times difficult to dolphins and make dolphins wait in line for like 12 hours and suggest dolphins to get voter ID that they just can't get for some reason.

Are we ready though for all the illegal alien dolphins from mexico swimming up to our coasts?
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We seem to allow chimps to indiscriminately post on the Internet.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

If we start bestowing human rights on chimps we are headed for disaster. We all know how this will end....


planet-of-the-apes.jpg

Bwahahahahahah....
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

SMTA said:
We seem to allow chimps to indiscriminately post on the Internet.
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Thanks for you support on this issue.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

Cardinal said:
I know, but as I suggested to Fletch, they deserve a category that, while not human, per se, is definitely above other animals.

There's reasoning:



Study shows chimps capable of insightful reasoning ability

Communication:


The 66 gestures which show how chimpanzees communicate - Telegraph

Communication with humans using ASL:



HowStuffWorks "Chimpanzee Communication"

They're self aware:



Chimps Are Self Aware : Discovery News

And finally, the very foundation one would need for discerning right from wrong:


Big Question: Do animals have a sense of right and wrong? : Discovery Channel
Click to expand...

Excellent post Cardinal, and some really great information in those links. They completely support what you're saying.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

Mr.Nick said:
Chimps are pretty damn smart - just too stupid to be in control of their emotions - especially when drunk or high.
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:lol: Do alot of chimps have sobriety issues?
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

Beat me to the Planet of the Apes. Hahahahaha
Get your damn paws off me you dirty apes.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

Manc Skipper said:
I'm not unsympathetic to the idea of chimp rights, they're our cousins after all, but what about crows?

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That was cool, thanks for sharing. African Grey Parrots are another bird who seem to have some type of intelligence, atleast on the level of a preschooler.

 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

Female Chimps Practice Heavily Infanticide and Cannibalism - Softpedia

We know chimps can be really nasty and male aggressiveness is already recorded in our closest species, including the male infanticide. But this goes too far: not only previously thought gentle females are equally aggressive, but it's a common practice to kill and eat the babies of other females.
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Animals aren't people. Some people, however, are animals.

isis-11.jpg
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

dirtpoorchris said:
Imagine the same lineage of chimps being taught sign language for a few hundred years. Im pretty sure almost each new birth would produce a chimp that is more capable of hand signs. Would be interesting to see if a chimps last born is more savy than a chimps first born because perhaps some genetic info from the parents had more time to trickle down as the parent learned and taught. aka how programmable is "passed down" dna for 1 life cycle and does chimp pass more different genetic info at 20% lifecycle compared to and old 80%+ chimp.
Click to expand...

That would work only if

a) through natural selection, the apes themselves selected for superior communication skills, or
b) through artificial selection, we selected for them for superior communication skills.

But through either of those, it would stand to reason that after a few thousand years of this their brains would undergo a dramatic evolution.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

Jack Fabulous said:
If we start bestowing human rights on chimps we are headed for disaster. We all know how this will end....


View attachment 67174128

Bwahahahahahah....
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To be fair, it was you who blew it all up, you...you sons of bitches.

By the way, did anyone else have a problem that the final twist of the movie is on the front cover? It would be like showing Bruce Willis as a ghost on the poster for The Sixth Sense.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

Cardinal said:
That would work only if

a) through natural selection, the apes themselves selected for superior communication skills, or
b) through artificial selection, we selected for them for superior communication skills.

But through either of those, it would stand to reason that after a few thousand years of this their brains would undergo a dramatic evolution.
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And neither of those scenarios is in place or likely to occur in the foreseeable future. If Chimps were prone to pass on signing skills, they'd have already been doing it. They communicate through a wide array of body language already and we haven't seen any discernible refinement of that among chimp populations.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

Papa bull said:
And neither of those scenarios is in place or likely to occur in the foreseeable future. If Chimps were prone to pass on signing skills, they'd have already been doing it. They communicate through a wide array of body language already and we haven't seen any discernible refinement of that among chimp populations.
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Sign language demands a greater vocabulary and, this is the relevant part, a larger and more developed brain to handle. The increased mental capacity is what would be selected for, the language just being a by-product of that intelligence.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

Cardinal said:
To be fair, it was you who blew it all up, you...you sons of bitches.

By the way, did anyone else have a problem that the final twist of the movie is on the front cover? It would be like showing Bruce Willis as a ghost on the poster for The Sixth Sense.
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It is weird that they showed the Statue and him on his knees on the cover. That was the best part of that movie, watching him on the horse with the woman and seeing the Statue's shadow, and then him screaming "You maniacs! You blew it up!" and then seeing....it.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

Manc Skipper said:
As a matter of fact we're ALL animals...
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I tend to agree. Sort of. It's a matter of semantics. In the sense that we are biological organisms like all the other biological organisms we call "animals", I completely agree. In the sense that humans are a distinct species in our eyes; one that has risen above and managed to override our basest instincts and have distinguished ourselves from other animals through superior impulse control.... we are not animals. At least not all of us. In my opinion, the defining difference between man and animal is impulse control and those "humans" who don't or won't exercise impulse control are on the wrong side of that line.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

Cardinal said:
Sign language demands a greater vocabulary and, this is the relevant part, a larger and more developed brain to handle. The increased mental capacity is what would be selected for, the language just being a by-product of that intelligence.
Click to expand...

I agree. I think the development of language follows development of the brain rather than causing development of the brain in a species.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

Papa bull said:
I agree. I think the development of language follows development of the brain rather than causing development of the brain in a species.
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It's both, actually. So long as a trait results in a greater ability to survive and pass on one's genes, it will be selected for. So the greater brain will result in greater language abilities, and the greater language abilities will result in the circumstances needed to go on to create a greater brain.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

I think a relevant question would be: is it particularly smart to enact that kind of evolution onto chimpanzees? Another way to put it is, if they had a higher intelligence would we even want what they'd have to offer?
 
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