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Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples’ Day

WallStreetVixen said:
Columbus Day is a legal holiday. The states, as well as the cities, can determine whether or not they want to acknowledge Columbus Day on the second Monday of October, or Indigenous People's Day, Flying Saucer Day, Starbucks Coffee Day or Satanic Demon Day if they like.

There are plenty of states in the Union that do not acknowledge Columbus Day. Why this Indigenous People's Day is such a surprise is beyond me.
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I do kind of like the idea of a Flying Saucer Day.
 
Luftwaffe said:
Not necessarily no.

Many natives reached out to the Europeans (more so in NA rather than SA) only to be backstabbed. Whatever.
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Generally speaking, not really. Some tribes might have been open to trade at first. However, once it became clear that the Europeans were planning on staying permanently, things would often turn violent.

Besides which, none of this changes the fact that any proposed "Indigenous Peoples Day" only acknowledges the native side of the equation while ignoring Europeans entirely.

What the Hell kind of sense does that make?

Cardinal said:
And I'm sure the natives also ate too much candy before bedtime, which is utterly irrelevant to the Europeans' behavior when they came to the Americas.
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How does this justify pushing the historically and factually inaccurate idea that natives were peace loving innocents, while Europeans were all murderous barbarians?

That's simply not how it happened.
 
Luftwaffe said:
Changed it. I like seeing you mad. Just accept it, Indigenous day, I think that's hilarious because it sounds like Seattle is spitting on Columbus' grave.
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:confused: Mad? What about any of my posts indicated that I was mad? Indeed, do any of my posts indicate that I'm even against the idea of changing Columbus Day? (hint...if it was up to me i'd get rid of ALL federal and state and local holidays since everyone wants to have a cow that they don't have their own personal holiday)

Amused by this maybe. But not mad.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Screw Columbus. He was an asshole that deserves no recognition. He sailed a boat and landed in a new land. Big ****ing deal. The natives would have prospered and continued their progression into modern times just nicely without Whitey...
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While I agree that Columbus was a total douche, I am pretty sure these natives have not progressed into modern times yet:

foto-gleilson-miranda-11935069-cropped-copy_stream_item_xlarge.jpg
 
Cardinal said:
Oh, stop it. The guy was literally responsible for the enslavement and deaths of millions of people.
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Oh please do tell how he was personally responsible for the enslavement and deaths of millions of people....
 
Gathomas88 said:
Generally speaking, not really. Some tribes might have been open to trade at first. However, once it became clear that the Europeans were planning on staying permanently, things would often turn violent.

Besides which, none of this changes the fact that any proposed "Indigenous Peoples Day" only acknowledges the native side of the equation while ignoring Europeans entirely.

What the Hell kind of sense does that make?



How does this justify pushing the historically and factually inaccurate idea that natives were peace loving innocents, while Europeans were all murderous barbarians?

That's simply not how it happened.
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No one is pushing that.

See my respons eto Kalstang.

Don't give a **** what the natives did to themselves for centuries, nothing justifies the millions killed by the Europeans.

I'm European and Native American by the way, do not make false dichotomies when it comes to the relationship of the Europeans and Natives (at times). The European backstab was horrid, accept that, it is not factually inaccurate in any way.
 
Gathomas88 said:
Generally speaking, not really. Some tribes might have been open to trade at first. However, once it became clear that the Europeans were planning on staying permanently, things would often turn violent.

Besides which, none of this changes the fact that any proposed "Indigenous Peoples Day" only acknowledges the native side of the equation while ignoring Europeans entirely.
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Practically every other holiday is a European holiday. What difference does it make that Seattle decided to give Native Americans one day? Did you personally ever celebrate Columbus Day anyway? I mean hell it ain't like they renamed Independence Day or Easter.
 
WallStreetVixen said:
South Dakota changed Columbus Day to Native American Day 20 years ago.

I'm sure no one really cares about that...
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If it weren't for carving some giant heads into a mountain, is there anything in that state anyone would care about?
 
Years ago the State of Washington removed Columbus day as a state holiday and replaced it with the day after Thanksgiving, thereby giving everybody a four day weekend. Incredibly intelligent move. Now we can say we removed Indigenous Peoples' Day as a state holiday. Who cares?
 
Luftwaffe said:
Why one group of people also having rocky history means we should celebrate the Hitler of the 1400's who was such a moron that he declared the "new world has been discovered!" despite there already being millions of humans in the Americas...
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Yeah man, that, like, reminds me of those idiots who, like, claimed to have discovered King Tut's tomb, as if, like, nobody had ever been there before and there wasn't, like, a freaking dead guy in there PROVING that people had been there before.

Morons.
 
Gathomas88 said:
Generally speaking, not really. Some tribes might have been open to trade at first. However, once it became clear that the Europeans were planning on staying permanently, things would often turn violent.

Besides which, none of this changes the fact that any proposed "Indigenous Peoples Day" only acknowledges the native side of the equation while ignoring Europeans entirely.

What the Hell kind of sense does that make?



How does this justify pushing the historically and factually inaccurate idea that natives were peace loving innocents, while Europeans were all murderous barbarians?

That's simply not how it happened.
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Um, they were bloody thirsty barbarians. The Native American population (in the 48 states) went from an average of twelve million to some 230,000 by the 20th century, three million died under Columbus, and Cortez himself killed about 270,000 natives. I'm well aware that the Natives went to war with each other, and some civilizations did indeed practice human sacrifice, but it was the Europeans who decimated them. The only reason to push the idea (within the context of Columbus day only) of the Native Americans practicing warfare is only to mitigate the severity of the Europeans' actions.
 
Luftwaffe said:
No one is pushing that.

See my respons eto Kalstang.

Don't give a **** what the natives did to themselves for centuries, nothing justifies the millions killed by the Europeans.

I'm European and Native American by the way, do not make false dichotomies when it comes to the relationship of the Europeans and Natives (at times). The European backstab was horrid, accept that, it is not factually inaccurate in any way.
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And I'm 1/16 Cherokee, dude. The simple fact of the matter is that you don't have to sh*t all over one heritage to honor the other. There is room enough for both.

At the end of the day, all idiotic PC crap like replacing Columbus Day with "Indigenous Peoples Day" accomplishes to perpetuate useless and self-indulgent "white guilt."

SouthernDemocrat said:
Practically every other holiday is a European holiday. What difference does it make that Seattle decided to give Native Americans one day? Did you personally ever celebrate Columbus Day anyway? I mean hell it ain't like they renamed Independence Day or Easter.
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It's the principle behind the thing. If you feel native peoples need their own holiday, make one for them.

There's really no reason to try and rewrite history to make the European discovery of the Americas out to be some kind of heinous tragedy that needs to live in infamy.
 
So ... Over five hundred years ago...An Italian sets sail to in the El Nino, the Pinto and the Santa Barbara and gets lost on his way to India to get spices...He bumps into a whole hemisphere he didn't know was there, thought he made it to India which he missed by over twelve thousand miles and he exploited and slaughtered the indigenous people he incorrectly called Indians to bring back gold for the Queen of Spain...
Tell be again why my ****in' bank is closed...
 
Cardinal said:
Um, they were bloody thirsty barbarians. The Native American population (in the 48 states) went from an average of twelve million to some 230,000 by the 20th century, three million died under Columbus, and Cortez himself killed about 270,000 natives. I'm well aware that the Natives went to war with each other, and some civilizations did indeed practice human sacrifice, but it was the Europeans who decimated them. The only reason to push the idea (within the context of Columbus day only) of the Native Americans practicing warfare is only to mitigate the severity of the Europeans' actions.
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Those "civilized" Europeans did a pretty good job of warring and sacrificing each other before they came here too.
 
Gathomas88 said:
It's the principle behind the thing. If you feel native peoples need their own holiday, make one for them.

There's really no reason to try and rewrite history to make the European discovery of the Americas out to be some kind of heinous tragedy that needs to live in infamy.
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How does renaming Columbus Day, Indigenous Peoples Day do that? The way I see it, they probably thought we have this bank holiday named after a total douchebag, why don't we give it to the Native Americans instead being they don't have one.

I don't get the constant "culture wars" uproar. I don't get Columbus Day off, the kids don't get it out of school. Unless I work for a bank some day I will never get it off. I don't celebrate the holiday, they could have named it White Men Are Terrible Day for all I care as it would not impact my life in anyway just the same.
 
Cardinal said:
Um, they were bloody thirsty barbarians. The Native American population (in the 48 states) went from an average of twelve million to some 230,000 by the 20th century, three million died under Columbus, and Cortez himself killed about 270,000 natives. I'm well aware that the Natives went to war with each other, and some civilizations did indeed practice human sacrifice, but it was the Europeans who decimated them. The only reason to push the idea (within the context of Columbus day only) of the Native Americans practicing warfare is only to mitigate the severity of the Europeans' actions.
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First off, a lot of that is exaggerated. The Europeans hardly set up "death camps" or went on random killing sprees when they landed in the Americas. They simply didn't have the numbers, by and large.

The biggest killer was disease. Frankly, those diseases were so virulent, and spread so fast, that the vast majority of the native population probably died of second, third, or fourth hand exposure without ever having seen a single European person in the flesh.

We know for fact, for example, that the native civilizations living along the Mississippi river went all but extinct long before European explorers ever arrived, because all we found when did eventually explore these areas were a few scattered tribes, and the ruins that the larger civilizations to which those tribes once belonged had left behind in the pandemic's aftermath.

Hell! Even where the infamous Cortez is concerned, all he really did was help the native city states in the area he explored to rebel against their brutal Aztec overlords in return for oaths of fealty to Spain.

Now, granted, due to the effects of disease, economic ignorance, and bigotry, the Spaniards did sort of botch their governorship of the area afterwards. However, even then, it was never really "wholesale slaughter" so much as simple incompetence.
 
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Gathomas88 said:
There's really no reason to try and rewrite history to make the European discovery of the Americas out to be some kind of heinous tragedy that needs to live in infamy.
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Sure there is ...that is what it was...
 
Cardinal said:
Um, they were bloody thirsty barbarians. The Native American population (in the 48 states) went from an average of twelve million to some 230,000 by the 20th century, three million died under Columbus, and Cortez himself killed about 270,000 natives. I'm well aware that the Natives went to war with each other, and some civilizations did indeed practice human sacrifice, but it was the Europeans who decimated them. The only reason to push the idea (within the context of Columbus day only) of the Native Americans practicing warfare is only to mitigate the severity of the Europeans' actions.
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The same guy who claimed that Columbus was responsible for three million deaths claimed that Spain had killed 15 million in the span of 40 years on the main continent. Basically the entire population of the Americas at the time.
 
Gathomas88 said:
There's really no reason to try and rewrite history to make the European discovery of the Americas out to be some kind of heinous tragedy that needs to live in infamy.
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No need to rewrite history, no. History already shows that.

Like, do you not understand that our ancestors ****ing exterminated the Native Americans?
 
Buck Ewer said:
Sure there is ...that is what it was...
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Deuce said:
No need to rewrite history, no. History already shows that.

Like, do you not understand that our ancestors ****ing exterminated the Native Americans?
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And if you really feel so bad about that, perhaps you all should give the land back and move to Europe. :roll:

No?

Then shut up about it.

The "Oh, woe is me! Why am I such an evil white person!?" routine is trite, dated, and frankly insulting to the peoples you claim to be honoring.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
While I agree that Columbus was a total douche, I am pretty sure these natives have not progressed into modern times yet:
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Either have these guys? So what?

stock-footage-kenya-circa-masai-warriors-perform-a-ritual-dance-circa-in-kenya.jpg

And nor have these football fans...

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I was obviously referring to the Mayans, Aztecs and Incans that were advanced civilizations.
 
Deuce said:
If it weren't for carving some giant heads into a mountain, is there anything in that state anyone would care about?
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Sturgis.
 
Gathomas88 said:
First off, a lot of that is exaggerated. The Europeans hardly set up "death camps" or went on random killing sprees when they landed in the Americas. They simply didn't have the numbers, by and large.

The biggest killer was disease. Frankly, those diseases were so virulent, and spread so fast, that the vast majority of the native population probably died of second, third, or fourth hand exposure without ever having seen a single European person in the flesh.

We know for fact, for example, that the native civilizations living along the Mississippi river went all but extinct long before European explorers ever arrived, because all we found when did eventually explore these areas were a few scattered tribes, and the ruins that the larger civilizations those tribes once belonged to had left behind in the pandemic's aftermath.

Hell! Even where the infamous Cortez is concerned, all he really did was help the native city states in the area he explored to rebel against their brutal Aztec overlords in return for oaths of fealty to Spain.

Now, granted, due to the effects of disease, economic ignorance, and bigotry, the Spaniards did sort of botch their governorship of the area afterwards. However, even then, it was never really "wholesale slaughter" so much as simple incompetence.
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Actually, I know that disease was responsible for the majority of it, and am (with the exception of the infamous pox blanket incident) attributing their deaths to a super large scale (and really grim) "oopsie." This still doesn't mitigate forced enslavement, forced conversions, conquests or brutal executions of those who rebelled. Also, as you've opened this up from Columbus to to Europeans in general, are you sure you really want to talk about what happened in North America as well? Because stats start to get much more specific as time goes on.
 
Gathomas88 said:
Now, granted, due to the effects of disease, economic ignorance, and bigotry, the Spaniards did sort of botch their governorship of the area afterwards. However, even then, it was never really "wholesale slaughter" so much as simple incompetence.
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Perfect! Why don't we celebrate "Simple Incompetence Day" then!
 
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