• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Shocking North Korea Development!

Capster78

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
2,253
Reaction score
567
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Kim out of sight, North Korean leaders visit South - CNN.com

I have been following and studying North Korea ever since I was stationed there back in 2006. There have been several reports of power struggles within the North Korean regime. Most of the time its just a byproduct of the media just trying to gain ratings and print headlines. I have also been following the rise of the new leader, Kim Jong Un, and have noticed several interesting things. While watching video of him, I notice an uneasiness about him as if he is not comfortable in his shoes. He does seem, unlike his father, more like a puppet. Kind of like a blind dog being guided by some outside entity. I feel, that Kim Jong Un may not actually be running the show. That is why there was a recent and shockingly public struggle for power between him and his uncle who was executed. It was a battle that Kim Jong Un won, even with the little experience he has as the new leader. Which to me shows the position itself has a lot of clout, no matter who posseses the title. But I feel that may be coming to an end. The current unexpected outreach by Military leaders from North Korea seems to be out of step with the traditional way North Korea deals with the outside world. You would suspect some type of announcement by Kim Jong Un for a meeting, rather then a surprise visit by Military Leaders. It seems to me, this may be a move by the powerful military arm of North Korea to gain some type of credibility and status from under Kim Jong Un. I feel they are taking advantage of his current state of health to gain influence with the south and the international community. Its way to early to tell, but I wonder if Kim Jong Un has fallen deathly ill, has been assassinated or has already died from whatever he was stricken with. I suspect we will know more very soon.
 
That would a hell of an event. No doubt there's a faction within the governnent says: "man, this **** ain't workin!"
 
This has really NEVER HAPPENED! There has never been a meeting between the Military and South Korean government leaders which was not proceeded by an announcement by the Leader in some shape or form. And also never has occurred unless it was necessary to quell tensions on the peninsula. Both of which, are not a factor at the current time. So it's interesting that a meeting is taking place, and will be interesting to see what the reasoning behind it is. I am surprised this is not being covered and commented on more then it is. Then again, I guess the constant media coverage of previous "instabilities" may have desensitized people to the point where they don't see this as a notable event.
 
Hm. Just to push back - there has been lots of communication out of North Korea directed at South Korea that has come out of the senior defense committees. When we used to assess the relative weight behind public pronouncements, they usually got the highest markings. I do not think this is as new (though it is interesting) as you are suggesting.
 
Hm. Just to push back - there has been lots of communication out of North Korea directed at South Korea that has come out of the senior defense committees. When we used to assess the relative weight behind public pronouncements, they usually got the highest markings. I do not think this is as new (though it is interesting) as you are suggesting.

It is new. The military in North Korea is generally controlled by the supreme leader of the country. No move like this would ever happen without the blessing of the leader directly. So far, there seems to be no indication that King Jong Un directed his top military leaders to sit down with South Korean leaders. That is why this is such a big deal.
 
Phat little Phuker can't defend himself. They'll take him out. What's next?
 
Kim Ding Dong would rather see South Korea turned into a smoldering crater...not send military reps to hand out peaceful overtures.

Something must be rocking in Pyongyang to bring this on. Too bad all we can do here in the US for now is speculate. North Korea is so unplugged from the rest of the world, no one knows what goes on unless it's first approved by Dear Midget..i mean Leader.
 
It is new. The military in North Korea is generally controlled by the supreme leader of the country.

:shrug: and still is, to all available evidence - though his condition is worse than suspected and he is out of commission, that could deteriorate.

No move like this would ever happen without the blessing of the leader directly. So far, there seems to be no indication that King Jong Un directed his top military leaders to sit down with South Korean leaders. That is why this is such a big deal.

Oh. You must have extremely good SIGINT to be aware of all of the interactions between KJU and his top brass.
 
Kim out of sight, North Korean leaders visit South - CNN.com

I have been following and studying North Korea ever since I was stationed there back in 2006. There have been several reports of power struggles within the North Korean regime. Most of the time its just a byproduct of the media just trying to gain ratings and print headlines. I have also been following the rise of the new leader, Kim Jong Un, and have noticed several interesting things. While watching video of him, I notice an uneasiness about him as if he is not comfortable in his shoes. He does seem, unlike his father, more like a puppet. Kind of like a blind dog being guided by some outside entity. I feel, that Kim Jong Un may not actually be running the show. That is why there was a recent and shockingly public struggle for power between him and his uncle who was executed. It was a battle that Kim Jong Un won, even with the little experience he has as the new leader. Which to me shows the position itself has a lot of clout, no matter who posseses the title. But I feel that may be coming to an end. The current unexpected outreach by Military leaders from North Korea seems to be out of step with the traditional way North Korea deals with the outside world. You would suspect some type of announcement by Kim Jong Un for a meeting, rather then a surprise visit by Military Leaders. It seems to me, this may be a move by the powerful military arm of North Korea to gain some type of credibility and status from under Kim Jong Un. I feel they are taking advantage of his current state of health to gain influence with the south and the international community. Its way to early to tell, but I wonder if Kim Jong Un has fallen deathly ill, has been assassinated or has already died from whatever he was stricken with. I suspect we will know more very soon.

I thought he was dead.
 
Kim out of sight, North Korean leaders visit South - CNN.com

I have been following and studying North Korea ever since I was stationed there back in 2006. There have been several reports of power struggles within the North Korean regime. Most of the time its just a byproduct of the media just trying to gain ratings and print headlines. I have also been following the rise of the new leader, Kim Jong Un, and have noticed several interesting things. While watching video of him, I notice an uneasiness about him as if he is not comfortable in his shoes. He does seem, unlike his father, more like a puppet. Kind of like a blind dog being guided by some outside entity. I feel, that Kim Jong Un may not actually be running the show. That is why there was a recent and shockingly public struggle for power between him and his uncle who was executed. It was a battle that Kim Jong Un won, even with the little experience he has as the new leader. Which to me shows the position itself has a lot of clout, no matter who posseses the title. But I feel that may be coming to an end. The current unexpected outreach by Military leaders from North Korea seems to be out of step with the traditional way North Korea deals with the outside world. You would suspect some type of announcement by Kim Jong Un for a meeting, rather then a surprise visit by Military Leaders. It seems to me, this may be a move by the powerful military arm of North Korea to gain some type of credibility and status from under Kim Jong Un. I feel they are taking advantage of his current state of health to gain influence with the south and the international community. Its way to early to tell, but I wonder if Kim Jong Un has fallen deathly ill, has been assassinated or has already died from whatever he was stricken with. I suspect we will know more very soon.

You were stationed in North Korea? I was lucky . . . I was in the South back in the 1970s. It was primitive in the South back then, but I can't even imagine how bad you had in the North. Oh . . . and that other stuff? Yeah.
 
Unless you have some unique information to share I'm not sure how you could be so certain that this hasn't been directed by Kim Jung Un. I agree that his condition is worth paying attention to but I think you are falling into the same trap Kremlinologists fell in by trying to discern major policy conclusions on scant evidence like who sat in what chair, who did or didn't appear at a particular event, etc.
 
:shrug: and still is, to all available evidence - though his condition is worse than suspected and he is out of commission, that could deteriorate.



Oh. You must have extremely good SIGINT to be aware of all of the interactions between KJU and his top brass.

You don't need any inside intelligence to know that the military does not jump until the leader says jump. That's how his uncle got executed......
 
Unless you have some unique information to share I'm not sure how you could be so certain that this hasn't been directed by Kim Jung Un. I agree that his condition is worth paying attention to but I think you are falling into the same trap Kremlinologists fell in by trying to discern major policy conclusions on scant evidence like who sat in what chair, who did or didn't appear at a particular event, etc.

Kim Jong Un would make any order apparent, not doing so makes it look as if he does not have control of the military. That is why whenever moves like this are made, they are publically announced by either his team of propagandists thru the media, or by his own mouth.
 
Kim Jong Un would make any order apparent, not doing so makes it look as if he does not have control of the military. That is why whenever moves like this are made, they are publically announced by either his team of propagandists thru the media, or by his own mouth.

Why do you assume that? They have frequently relied upon random and surprise announcements, forays, and the like in the past. It isn't impossible to imagine that Kim is truly ill and that this isn't the result of back-room political wrangling. Without more evidence I think it's far too hasty to assume or even hypothesize something as drastic as him not controlling the military. It's hardly unprecedented for the Supreme Leader to drop out of sight for extended periods of time. Kim Jung Il did it frequently and it always caused wild speculation that he had been ousted in a coup, died, or some other similar catastrophic theory. North Korean analysis requires extreme caution and prudence because we know so little and can assume even less.
 
Kim out of sight, North Korean leaders visit South - CNN.com

I have been following and studying North Korea ever since I was stationed there back in 2006. There have been several reports of power struggles within the North Korean regime. Most of the time its just a byproduct of the media just trying to gain ratings and print headlines. I have also been following the rise of the new leader, Kim Jong Un, and have noticed several interesting things. While watching video of him, I notice an uneasiness about him as if he is not comfortable in his shoes. He does seem, unlike his father, more like a puppet. Kind of like a blind dog being guided by some outside entity. I feel, that Kim Jong Un may not actually be running the show. That is why there was a recent and shockingly public struggle for power between him and his uncle who was executed. It was a battle that Kim Jong Un won, even with the little experience he has as the new leader. Which to me shows the position itself has a lot of clout, no matter who posseses the title. But I feel that may be coming to an end. The current unexpected outreach by Military leaders from North Korea seems to be out of step with the traditional way North Korea deals with the outside world. You would suspect some type of announcement by Kim Jong Un for a meeting, rather then a surprise visit by Military Leaders. It seems to me, this may be a move by the powerful military arm of North Korea to gain some type of credibility and status from under Kim Jong Un. I feel they are taking advantage of his current state of health to gain influence with the south and the international community. Its way to early to tell, but I wonder if Kim Jong Un has fallen deathly ill, has been assassinated or has already died from whatever he was stricken with. I suspect we will know more very soon.

Really? You were stationed in North Korea? :roll:
 
Kim Jong Un would make any order apparent, not doing so makes it look as if he does not have control of the military. That is why whenever moves like this are made, they are publically announced by either his team of propagandists thru the media, or by his own mouth.

Also if there had really been a coup in North Korea do you really think the new regime's first order of business would be to dispatch diplomats on a non-substantive media mission to the South? I find it hard to believe that the machinery of governance, even in North Korea, would be operating normally and smoothly after such an event.
 
Also if there had really been a coup in North Korea do you really think the new regime's first order of business would be to dispatch diplomats on a non-substantive media mission to the South? I find it hard to believe that the machinery of governance, even in North Korea, would be operating normally and smoothly after such an event.

To be honest, I find that scenario somewhat plausible. They could easily secretly reach the South through such a silent cover if a smooth coup is successful (which is highly doubtful). In fact, I think that would be the first order of business if a coup did succeed.
 
Also if there had really been a coup in North Korea do you really think the new regime's first order of business would be to dispatch diplomats on a non-substantive media mission to the South? I find it hard to believe that the machinery of governance, even in North Korea, would be operating normally and smoothly after such an event.

Yes, because it would be a stage in which the successors could cement their presense on by appearing with the South Koreans in a meeting to debate issues on the peninsula. Whoever is seen to be the one in charge of confronting the south, we be seen as the one who has the power in the regime.
 
Kim Ding Dong would rather see South Korea turned into a smoldering crater...not send military reps to hand out peaceful overtures.

Something must be rocking in Pyongyang to bring this on. Too bad all we can do here in the US for now is speculate. North Korea is so unplugged from the rest of the world, no one knows what goes on unless it's first approved by Dear Midget..i mean Leader.

This could be good or bad. If there is a power struggle, the side that wants no part of peace with SK could get desparate and launch an attack.
 
You don't need any inside intelligence to know that the military does not jump until the leader says jump. That's how his uncle got executed......

His uncle got executed because he represented an alternate power base and was closely tied to the Chinese, with whom KJU is having problems. I thought he might wait at least until his aunt was dead to take out ole JST, but either he felt that the time was good, or he just doesn't care. He won because KJU retains effective control of the guns in North Korea
 
Yes, because it would be a stage in which the successors could cement their presense on by appearing with the South Koreans in a meeting to debate issues on the peninsula. Whoever is seen to be the one in charge of confronting the south, we be seen as the one who has the power in the regime.

Er.... no. Whoever is in charge of being the guy on the stage dealing with South Korea is the guy who is being prepped by the guy who is actually in charge to be the Fall Guy.
 
LOL On the news yesterday they said he was out of sight because 'he had injured his ankles.'

Ha ha ha. Well if that's true, I'd speculate it's gout, not some injury. Gout can be the result of a very very self-indulgent diet and I'm sure no one says no to the little pudge.
 
Kim out of sight, North Korean leaders visit South - CNN.com

I have been following and studying North Korea ever since I was stationed there back in 2006. There have been several reports of power struggles within the North Korean regime. Most of the time its just a byproduct of the media just trying to gain ratings and print headlines. I have also been following the rise of the new leader, Kim Jong Un, and have noticed several interesting things. While watching video of him, I notice an uneasiness about him as if he is not comfortable in his shoes. He does seem, unlike his father, more like a puppet. Kind of like a blind dog being guided by some outside entity. I feel, that Kim Jong Un may not actually be running the show. That is why there was a recent and shockingly public struggle for power between him and his uncle who was executed. It was a battle that Kim Jong Un won, even with the little experience he has as the new leader. Which to me shows the position itself has a lot of clout, no matter who posseses the title. But I feel that may be coming to an end. The current unexpected outreach by Military leaders from North Korea seems to be out of step with the traditional way North Korea deals with the outside world. You would suspect some type of announcement by Kim Jong Un for a meeting, rather then a surprise visit by Military Leaders. It seems to me, this may be a move by the powerful military arm of North Korea to gain some type of credibility and status from under Kim Jong Un. I feel they are taking advantage of his current state of health to gain influence with the south and the international community. Its way to early to tell, but I wonder if Kim Jong Un has fallen deathly ill, has been assassinated or has already died from whatever he was stricken with. I suspect we will know more very soon.

I agree that the family run dictatorship may soon come to an end. One of two things will happen. either a military junta will take over or the entire regime will crash and the north and south will re-unite. The population is starving. I don't think the regime can hold on a lot longer.
 
His uncle got executed because he represented an alternate power base and was closely tied to the Chinese, with whom KJU is having problems. I thought he might wait at least until his aunt was dead to take out ole JST, but either he felt that the time was good, or he just doesn't care. He won because KJU retains effective control of the guns in North Korea

So are you privy to inside intelligence or are you just speculating like the rest of us?
 
Back
Top Bottom