Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

Jack Hays · Oct 3, 2014

Vern said:
feel free to take Panetta's word. He thinks President Obama should have tried harder. Yea, tried harder is what he said. I guess maliki thought he could push President Obama around like he did with Bush. Just say President Obama should have caved to Malki's demand about no immunity for the troops and we can continue the conversation.

But you didn't answer the question I posed about your claim. Here it is again

Jack how did Bush caving to every Iraqi demand give President Obama “a free hand”?

GWB got what he wanted and what the country needed. BHO prioritized his political agenda above our national interest, and Iraqi stability.

Vern · Oct 3, 2014

Jack Hays said:
GWB got what he wanted and what the country needed. BHO prioritized his political agenda above our national interest, and Iraqi stability.

I'm still not seeing the "free hand" you mentioned. Sorry, I wont take you word.

Jack Hays · Oct 3, 2014

Vern said:
I'm still not seeing the "free hand" you mentioned. Sorry, I wont take you word.

I'm indifferent to what you believe or don't believe. The GWB administration made the agreement valid until 2011 so GWB's successor could design his own plan.

Montecresto · Oct 3, 2014

Jack Hays said:
That was to give his successor a free hand to negotiate his own agreement. In 2008 no responsible official imagined there would be a total US withdrawal.

Right, and for you, I'm certain, "responsible officials" only come from the GOP.

Montecresto · Oct 3, 2014

APACHERAT said:
That Valerie Jarrett, Susan Rice and Samantha Powers have been dictating what America's national defense/security policies will be.

These three individuals are Obama's inner circle and have more say so than all of the generals and admirals with in all four branches of the military combined.

That could be part of the problem.

Jack Hays · Oct 3, 2014

Montecresto said:
Right, and for you, I'm certain, "responsible officials" only come from the GOP.

No. They're not political. I was speaking of the career professionals: military, intelligence and foreign affairs. And btw, Panetta is a Democrat.

Montecresto · Oct 3, 2014

Grant said:
So you would prefer what's going on there now?

The thing is there were not 150,000 troops in Iraq when the present troubles began. There were none. The CIA Director at the time, Robert Gates, expected something over 70,000 to remain in order to maintain stability.

First, no, we would prefer Hussein, Mubarak, Gaddafi and Assad were all still in power as a lesser of the evils we have now in the region. They all did quite well at containment of militant Islamic groups. The Islamic State would never have risen to the power they are now. That's just failure number one.

And second, we don't care what you think about it, Obama was hired to get the hell out of Iraq, and that's what he did. We, not you, don't want another South Korea or Germany, we aren't interested in the expense in treasure, AND, unlike South Korea and Germany, there would be a steady flow of body bags coming home. HELL no, if you want 70K troops on the ground, then go convince Harper to do it, understand that Grant?

Montecresto · Oct 3, 2014

Jack Hays said:
No. They're not political. I was speaking of the career professionals: military, intelligence and foreign affairs. And btw, Panetta is a Democrat.

Panetta is a chicken **** democrat short the balls to call it out at the time when something might have been done about it. Frankly I'm tired of the Johnny come lately guys that try to look important after the fact by saying "I told you so" in a memoir that will net him how many $$$$!!!!

And who wants to listen to "intelligence" supposedly, let Bush tell it anyway, all of our intelligence agencies got it wrong on Iraqi WMD.

Jack Hays · Oct 3, 2014

Montecresto said:
Panetta is a chicken **** democrat short the balls to call it out at the time when something might have been done about it. Frankly I'm tired of the Johnny come lately guys that try to look important after the fact by saying "I told you so" in a memoir that will net him how many $$$$!!!!

And who wants to listen to "intelligence" supposedly, let Bush tell it anyway, all of our intelligence agencies got it wrong on Iraqi WMD.

Panetta spoke out within the administration (along with many others) but was overruled by the WH.

Montecresto · Oct 3, 2014

Navy Pride said:
They make changes to SOFA all the time.

That's besides the point that Bush's sofa left no troops loitering about in the cities past 2009, and confined to the bases and other areas of operation, which wouldn't leave them in very good order to respond to things like ISIS. And finally a complete withdrawal by the end of 2011. Furthermore NP, SOFAS are negotiated, Bush's took nearly a year, you don't just go changing them willy nilly. And it's conjecture to say that he figured Obama would leave troops in Iraq even though he negotiated a complete withdrawal.

And finally again, if Hussein was still in Iraq, we wouldn't be talking about SOFAS or ISIS!

Montecresto · Oct 3, 2014

Jack Hays said:
Panetta spoke out within the administration (along with many others) but was overruled by the WH.

That's what he says, and your only running with the word of a democrat on this because it supports your position. Sorry, but it's too late for his bull crap now.

Navy Pride · Oct 3, 2014

Montecresto said:
That's besides the point that Bush's sofa left no troops loitering about in the cities past 2009, and confined to the bases and other areas of operation, which wouldn't leave them in very good order to respond to things like ISIS. And finally a complete withdrawal by the end of 2011. Furthermore NP, SOFAS are negotiated, Bush's took nearly a year, you don't just go changing them willy nilly. And it's conjecture to say that he figured Obama would leave troops in Iraq even though he negotiated a complete withdrawal.

And finally again, if Hussein was still in Iraq, we wouldn't be talking about SOFAS or ISIS!

That is the point. Do we now have troops there? what happened to the SOFA?

Jack Hays · Oct 3, 2014

Montecresto said:
T
And finally again, if Hussein was still in Iraq, we wouldn't be talking about SOFAS or ISIS!

I'd rather be on the side of liberation from tyranny.

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." --Theodore Roosevelt

Jack Hays · Oct 3, 2014

Montecresto said:
That's what he says, and your only running with the word of a democrat on this because it supports your position. Sorry, but it's too late for his bull crap now.

I have no party. Panetta's words are powerful because it is well known that others (Clinton, Petreaus, Gates, etc.) shared his view.

Grant · Oct 3, 2014

Montecresto said:
First, no, we would prefer Hussein, Mubarak, Gaddafi and Assad were all still in power as a lesser of the evils we have now in the region.

Not too often you get posters favoring genocidal dictators and mass murderers like Saddam Hussein. Would you also have attended the 'rape rooms'?

The Iraqi courts didn't agree with your positive assessment of Saddam or his family and they feel justice was better served with his demise. It must have ruined your day, huh?

APACHERAT · Oct 3, 2014

Montecresto said:
That could be part of the problem.

That's the problem, it's been the problem with Obama since day one back in January of 2009.

Obama has ignored the Republicans in Congress, has ignored his military advisers, has ignored the intelligence community and only listens to the radical leftist he has surrounded himself with.

If Obama were have surrounded himself with competent people, his administration wouldn't be the worst administration in history. All of his executive appointments are affirmative action appointments who had a political social engineering activist PC agenda.

Every thing with Obama is political.

Vern · Oct 4, 2014

Grant said:
Not too often you get posters favoring genocidal dictators and mass murderers like Saddam Hussein.

uh oh, Grant has climbed back up on his genocide high horse. Grant, Reagan supported Saddam's genocide. I find it funny you still want to hit people over the head with the "genocide" narrative but cant acknowledge Reagan actively supporting genocide. Serious question. Is gaddaffi a "genocidal dictators "?

Vern · Oct 4, 2014

Jack Hays said:
I'm indifferent to what you believe or don't believe. The GWB administration made the agreement valid until 2011 so GWB's successor could design his own plan.

Jack, that "valid" agreement required all troops out of Iraq at the end of 2011. That valid agreement also required we get Iraqi permission before troops left the base. Iraq did not want our troops. If they wanted our troops there then they would have said it publicly and given our troops immunity. Just say "President Obama should have caved on the immunity demand."

WillyPete · Oct 4, 2014

Certainly Panetta is free to voice his opinion. He's positioned to have a well-informed one.

It could be that leaving 10,000 troops in Iraq may have forestalled the rise of ISIS in Iraq. We'll never know.

But then what? How long are we going to be the lynchpin in Iraq's national defense?

How will we know when it's safe to leave? What's to prevent the terrorists from (again) fading into the background, setting up IUDs and small ambushes to generate a steady drip of casualties, and wait us out?

When this adventure was pitched to the U.S. public way back in 2001-02, it was "weeks, not months," and now it's '"for as long as it takes."

What do we (the U.S.) get out of this?

Montecresto · Oct 4, 2014

Jack Hays said:
I'd rather be on the side of liberation from tyranny.

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." --Theodore Roosevelt

No tyranny from the Islamic State. And your in the minority. Increasingly Americans view the Iraq war and removing Hussein as a mistake.

February 19, 2014
More Americans Now View Afghanistan War as a Mistake
Republicans most likely to say the war was not a mistake. Bolded typical!!!
by Frank Newport

http://www.gallup.com/poll/167471/americans-view-afghanistan-war-mistake.aspx

March 18, 2013
On 10th Anniversary, 53% in U.S. See Iraq War as Mistake
Republicans most likely to say conflict was not a mistake
by Andrew Dugan

http://www.gallup.com/poll/161399/10th-anniversary-iraq-war-mistake.aspx

Montecresto · Oct 4, 2014

APACHERAT said:
That's the problem, it's been the problem with Obama since day one back in January of 2009.

Obama has ignored the Republicans in Congress, has ignored his military advisers, has ignored the intelligence community and only listens to the radical leftist he has surrounded himself with.

If Obama were have surrounded himself with competent people, his administration wouldn't be the worst administration in history. All of his executive appointments are affirmative action appointments who had a political social engineering activist PC agenda.

Every thing with Obama is political.

He's a politician, of course everything is political, the same was true of Bush, Clinton, etc.

Why listen to the intelligence community?

Many in the intelligence community expressed sincere regret over the flawed predictions about Iraqi weapons programs. Testifying before Congress in January 2004, David Kay, the original director of the Iraq Survey Group, said unequivocally that "It turns out that we were all wrong, probably in my judgment, and that is most disturbing."[70] He later added in an interview that the intelligence community owed the President an apology.[71]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationale_for_the_Iraq_War

Montecresto · Oct 4, 2014

Navy Pride said:
That is the point. Do we now have troops there? what happened to the SOFA?

No, we don't because the SOFA Bush negotiated required COMPLETE withdrawal by December 31, 2011!!!!!

Montecresto · Oct 4, 2014

Jack Hays said:
I have no party. Panetta's words are powerful because it is well known that others (Clinton, Petreaus, Gates, etc.) shared his view.

We'll president Clinton agrees with me that Hans Blix was doing a fine job at not finding any WMD, and should have been allowed to complete his job. But of course he would have found nothing, the impetus for war would be gone and BushCo wouldn't have had their war. SO.................had the right thing been done to begin with, then once again, we wouldn't be talking about SOFA, and wringing our hands over the menacing Islamic State, Bush's war, and the removal of Hussein, a colossal failure, now acknowledged by most Americans, too!

"In terms of the launching of the war, I believe we made an error in not allowing the United Nations to complete the inspections process.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/clintons-fight-against-terrorism/

Fletch · Oct 4, 2014

Montecresto said:
No, we don't because the SOFA Bush negotiated required COMPLETE withdrawal by December 31, 2011!!!!!

And Obama had 2 years to negotiate a new agreement. He didn't get that done mainly because he didn't want to get that done. Ask yourself this question: Had McCain won in 2008, do you think we would have kept troops in Iraq?

Montecresto · Oct 4, 2014

Grant said:
Not too often you get posters favoring genocidal dictators and mass murderers like Saddam Hussein. Would you also have attended the 'rape rooms'?

The Iraqi courts didn't agree with your positive assessment of Saddam or his family and they feel justice was better served with his demise. It must have ruined your day, huh?

March 18, 2013
On 10th Anniversary, 53% in U.S. See Iraq War as Mistake
Republicans most likely to say conflict was not a mistake
by Andrew Dugan

http://www.gallup.com/poll/161399/10th-anniversary-iraq-war-mistake.aspx

Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

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