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Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial[W:292]

Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

it depends on the ruling. if it is based on a factual finding, no appeal by the government. If its based on a legal ruling by the court, the prosecution may move to reinstate the jury verdict. so you are neither right nor wrong.

I haven't lost because you never even stepped up to the plate. all you do is whine about isolated incidents of people being stupid.

Can you find anyone who has found that you made a winning argument

Again - the judge is not deciding guilt or innocence: he can't.

The rest of your post is BS and I'm not going to entertain it.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

in other words you like a law where rich people and whites get CCW and minorities and the poor cannot. that is what happens in "may issue" states. Joan Rivers-a big gun hater-had a CCW in new york while black and Latino taxi drivers almost never could get one even though cab drivers are far more likely to be attacked than aging liberal comics

Under "showing cause" - anybody can apply and be heard. May issue means - show cause. If cause meets the requirement, then it's granted.

Cab drivers are no differnt than intrastate truck divers who have their trucks hijacked. Line dirvers I knew carried guns all the time: permit or no.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Has everything to do with the point. Shoot a black person as a white person your odds of claiming SD and prevailing are zero.

Tell that to George Zimmerman.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Has everything to do with the point. Shoot a black person as a white person your odds of claiming SD and prevailing are zero.

I'm crying crocodile tears over here for the plight of the oppressed white man in America.... :boohoo:

I'm a white man so I know what a raw deal I get from society. Oppression everywhere. Poor poor me.... boo hooo waahhh waahhh...
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Under "showing cause" - anybody can apply and be heard. May issue means - show cause. If cause meets the requirement, then it's granted.

Cab drivers are no differnt than intrastate truck divers who have their trucks hijacked. Line dirvers I knew carried guns all the time: permit or no.

You do not understand the difference between may issue and shall issue.

Try again.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Again - the judge is not deciding guilt or innocence: he can't.

The rest of your post is BS and I'm not going to entertain it.

Actually, TD has a point. A judge does have the power to overturn what he considers to be a bad verdict. The defense would have to make a motion to set aside the jury's judgment, then the judge may or may not do it. In this case however, no way in hell.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Under "showing cause" - anybody can apply and be heard. May issue means - show cause. If cause meets the requirement, then it's granted.

Cab drivers are no differnt than intrastate truck divers who have their trucks hijacked. Line dirvers I knew carried guns all the time: permit or no.

you are not correct. its up to the discretion of some bureaucrat.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Again - the judge is not deciding guilt or innocence: he can't.

The rest of your post is BS and I'm not going to entertain it.

remind me of which university granted you a law degree and which state bar did you pass
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Actually, TD has a point. A judge does have the power to overturn what he considers to be a bad verdict. The defense would have to make a motion to set aside the jury's judgment, then the judge may or may not do it. In this case however, no way in hell.
Oops, I need to correct myself. The defense does not even have to ask the judge to overturn a bad verdict. I know this from real life. I am sure that many of you remember me posting about my DWI bust in 2009, in which I claimed that the cop framed me. And I am sure you remember about me posting about that cop getting caught by the FBI for doing the same to someone else in 2011. It was in 2011 that the verdict in my own case was set aside. I didn't even know it was going to happen until I was subpoenaed to come back to court. At first, I thought I had done something to violate my probation, and then when I got to court. In September of 2011, in Courtroom 12 here at the Criminal Court in Houston, my verdict was set aside by the judge. BTW, the cop that busted me ended up getting 5 years probation for Official Oppression, the police department he worked for is still under Federal supervision, and he was fired and will never be able to get a job as even a security guard. The sweet irony here is that the verdict in my case would never have been reversed, if not for the lady who got this cop busted. The 2 important facts about her own false DWI charge were 1) She was a health nut, who never had a drink in her life, and 2) She just happened to be a secretary in the FBI office that ended up busting that cop. LOL. A total of 30 DWI verdicts were set aside in this case, and it was the lead news story here in Houston for weeks.

Fact is, a judge does have the power to set aside any verdict, if he or she sees evidence to create enough doubt to tip the scales in the other direction, and the judge can do this unilaterally, as she did in my case.
 
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Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Oops, I need to correct myself. The defense does not even have to ask the judge to overturn a bad verdict. I know this from real life. I am sure that many of you remember me posting about my DWI bust in 2009, in which I claimed that the cop framed me. And I am sure you remember about me posting about that cop getting caught by the FBI for doing the same to someone else in 2011. It was in 2011 that the verdict in my own case was set aside. I didn't even know it was going to happen until I was subpoenaed to come back to court. At first, I thought I had done something to violate my probation, and then when I got to court. In September of 2011, in Courtroom 12 here at the Criminal Court in Houston, my verdict was set aside by the judge. BTW, the cop that busted me, ended up getting probation for Official Oppression, the police department he worked for is still under Federal supervision, and he will never be able to get a job as even a security guard. The sweet irony here is that the verdict in my case would never have been reversed, if not for the lady who got this cop busted. The 2 important facts about her own false DWI charge were 1) She was a health nut, who never had a drink in her life, and 2) She just happened to be a secretary in the FBI office that ended up busting that cop. LOL.

Fact is, a judge does have the power to set aside any verdict, if he or she sees enough evidence to create just enough doubt to tip the scales in the other direction, and the judge can do this unilaterally.

In Cincinnati, a guy was charged with second degree murder. apparently he shot a dealer he bought drugs from. He claimed self defense. The jury, correctly figuring he was a scum bag (he was carrying a pistol illegally, and buying crack cocaine) convicted him. a Lady judge set aside the verdict finding that his claim of self defense was the only proper conclusion a reasonable jury could find, since there was undisputed evidence that the dead dealer had a weapon in his hand and the forensic evidence was that the dead dealer had fired first. plus another user testified that the same dealer had ripped him off at gun point shortly before the defendant killed the dealer
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

In Cincinnati, a guy was charged with second degree murder. apparently he shot a dealer he bought drugs from. He claimed self defense. The jury, correctly figuring he was a scum bag (he was carrying a pistol illegally, and buying crack cocaine) convicted him. a Lady judge set aside the verdict finding that his claim of self defense was the only proper conclusion a reasonable jury could find, since there was undisputed evidence that the dead dealer had a weapon in his hand and the forensic evidence was that the dead dealer had fired first. plus another user testified that the same dealer had ripped him off at gun point shortly before the defendant killed the dealer

I would call this one manslaughter at the very least. Since the man was committing an illegal activity by purchasing drugs, any other activity that arises out of the transaction can be prosecuted. At least that's the way it is in Texas. Don't know about other parts of the country though.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Actually, TD has a point. A judge does have the power to overturn what he considers to be a bad verdict. The defense would have to make a motion to set aside the jury's judgment, then the judge may or may not do it. In this case however, no way in hell.



Over turning a conviction is not deciding guilt or innocence. You understand that yeah?
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Over turning a conviction is not deciding guilt or innocence. You understand that yeah?

Actually it is. Once the verdict is set aside, then the defendant is judged innocent by the court. This is exactly what happened in my own case.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

I would call this one manslaughter at the very least. Since the man was committing an illegal activity by purchasing drugs, any other activity that arises out of the transaction can be prosecuted. At least that's the way it is in Texas. Don't know about other parts of the country though.

yeah he got dinged for having the weapon while engaged in the crime of buying crack cocaine and drug possession
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Actually it is. Once the verdict is set aside, then the defendant is judged innocent by the court. This is exactly what happened in my own case.

technically, since the state failed to overcome your presumption of innocence, it returns. An acquittal is not the same as finding you "innocent" but not guilty and once you are not guilty, the presumption of innocence returns
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

yeah he got dinged for having the weapon while engaged in the crime of buying crack cocaine and drug possession

That's at least 10 years in Texas, and usually a lot more.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

technically, since the state failed to overcome your presumption of innocence, it returns. An acquittal is not the same as finding you "innocent" but not guilty and once you are not guilty, the presumption of innocence returns

Ahh, that's right. Sorry, I don't know a lot of "Greek". LOL.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

the judge does not decide guilt or innocence
Just for clarification purposes.
You seem to be forgetting bench trials. And in such trial Judges in the US never decide innocence. It is always a determination of the level of guilt. Guilty/not guilty.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Yea and my name is gullible, lol.
Okay Gullible.
I would suggest you officially change your name so that others know.


No it's not actually. Excons argument amounts to "Lets just take the guys word for it."
Wrong again. Figures.


Yes you would IF you had no other evidence. In this case, he was shown to be lying.
Wrong again. No evidence was presented showed he was lying.





....and the word THUG don't forget, ya gotta call the victim a THUG, then murder is OK and it's open season on un-armed black teens.
Threatening violence like Davis did makes one a thug.


If he played his music too loud some here would call him a THUG and dismiss him as being expendable.
Stop talking nonsense.

That kid is a hero, but the rest of what you said is unadulterated nonsense.





Clearly it was not, or he would not have been convicted of first degree murder.

This was a case of a guy who was disrespected, got angry, killed a teenager because of it, and tried to claim self defense to keep himself out of prison. Fortunately it didn't work.
Wrong again as already shown.

So again.

It was a case of self defense.
The individual threatened to kill him and pointed something at him which appeared to be a gun.
Anybody should be entitled to fire under those circumstances.

Funny thing here is that the tripod/stand was found under the seat yet nobody suggested that a leg of that is what he could have pointed at him through the window.

Davis threatened him and got out of the vehicle to carry through with that threat.


No evidence showed he wasn't in fear.
And he certainly was as demonstrated by grab his firearm in self-defense.
You're arguing in circles here. You're saying that he was justified in getting his gun to shoot the kid because he feared for his life. And the evidence that he feared for his life was the fact that he grabbed his gun so he could shoot the kid.
No. That is not arguing in circles.
Saying such is more of a reflection on your thoughts about it.
Going for your gun in self defense certainly shows you are in fear. Duh!
Stop with the nonsense.





There was no threat.

Only stupid people would claim otherwise.
Only stupid people would claim there was none, especially as Davis was getting out of the vehicle to carry through with it.
You clearly know not of what you speak.
But I suppose you think he was getting out to give Dunn a kiss, right?





Good. That's what you get for killing someone in a fit of rage.
False narrative.





Did anyone expected Dunn will go out of this trial without a prison for shooting teenagers because they were playing laud music?
He didn't shoot at anybody because of loud music.,
Saying such is a mischaracterization of what happened.
Dunn shot Davis because Davis became a threat.
Davis even got out of the vehicle to carry through with that threat.
That is why he was shot. Not because the music was loud.





and yet the OP thinks he's a hero for gunning an unarmed kid down over some loud music.
Hey PoS, stop talking about stuff you do not know.





^^^^
TRANSLATION: It is a shame that we can't lynch niggers anymore and get away with it.
Your translator is broken and your comment is idiotic.


Every time some butthead posts "Chicago" in one of these threads, somebody should post this.......

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/v/t1.0-9/995249_466749930101016_909403525_n.jpg?oh=e4d36cc9d24001762c3a4f2d4cc67993&oe=5486B3FC&__gda__=1421992477_be0440b0d69dad6fb84314bfd3a6665b[IMG][/QUOTE]
Why deflect with something that rarely happens?

Deal with what is posted. Don't deflect with **** that rarely happens.


[QUOTE="danarhea, post: 1063823679, member: 1377"]This was a man who shot through the back of a car that was attempting to leave, thus murdering a black man. Your hero is a murderer.[/QUOTE]:naughty
This was a man who was firing on a threat who had jumped back into a vehicle who's driver attempted to pull away. A vehicle in which it could not be seen if the threat was preparing to fire back.
That vehicle then stopped feet away from the rear of Dunn's car. The threat was still there. It had only moved, but had not been eliminated.

And until a vehicle in such circumstances is far enough away, the person in it is still a threat until such time as it can be determined that he is not.


[HR][/HR]

[QUOTE="Superfly, post: 1063823524, member: 15241"][url=http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2013-03-20/story/prosecutors-dispute-friends-jordan-davis-fled-after-shooting]Prosecutors dispute that friends of Jordan Davis fled after shooting | members.jacksonville.com[/url]

Besides, according to all the Dunn apologists, aren't they saying that that's how they got rid of the "mystery weapon?" Now either they left or they didn't. Y'all need to make up your minds.[/QUOTE]Showing you do not understand the evidence.
They traveled into another parking lot. Over 400 feet away.
The police didn't immediately search that area. And it wasn't searched until days after they were informed.
So yes they could have disposed of something immediately and it not have been found. Especially as it was, IIRC, the drivers aunt and cousin who were in the area at the time. The driver called them instead of 911. And he even lied about that.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

You are the only person to say this murderer is innocent. Scary how the internet can give you a glimpse into someone's mind that is similar to being deranged. I hope others are safe around you. Normal people don't think like that, and I really hope you are just trolling.
:doh
1.) Your appeal to numbers is a logical fallacy.
2.) While I may be in the minority I am not the only one.
3.) You are just wrong all over. You obviously do not know what normal is to even suggest that you do know, or even to pass judgment on others.


Of those answering the a poll, it is roughly a 61/38 split.
Do you think the jury made the right decision in the Dunn... | www.actionnewsjax.com





That's true, but misses the underlying pattern:

White on white - 2,614
White on black - 193
Black on black - 2,412
Black on white - 431

Mostly, whites kill other whites and blacks kill other blacks.
Which misses the other underlying pattern.
Demographics.
Whites = 223,553,265 or 72.4 % of the population.
African Americans = 38,929,319 or 12.6 % of the population.
Demographics of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Percentages of their respective population is the real indicator.

By respective percentages of population, Blacks on a whole engage in such activity far more (multiple times more) than whites do.
 
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Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

I think he would have walked if he called 911 immediately after the shooting, and if he also stayed at the scene. His lack of reporting what happened and leaving the scene is extremely suspicious. [The SUV could have been searched immediately for a shotgun that way too.]
Maybe, maybe not. If you use those posting here as an example, I would have to say "not". :shrug:





I didn't sit on the jury so I have no clue if this was "premeditated" or not, but from what I can see, he certainly deserved punishment for killing someone who offended his lifestyle or noise tolerance or whatever. If I shot every idiot who played his music too loud and it annoyed me, I would have been in jail decades ago. We don't get to shoot people because they piss us off.
He didn't shoot the kid because of the music. He shot him because the kid threatened to kill him, displayed a means to carry through with that threat, and got out of the vehicle to do so.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Just for clarification purposes.
You seem to be forgetting bench trials. And in such trial Judges in the US never decide innocence. It is always a determination of the level of guilt. Guilty/not guilty.

No I didn't forget: I wasn't referring to bench trials because the subject was jury trials.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Just for clarification purposes.
You seem to be forgetting bench trials. And in such trial Judges in the US never decide innocence. It is always a determination of the level of guilt. Guilty/not guilty.

Jury trial

the judge determines the LAW and instructs the JURY on the LAW

the Jury is the "judge of the facts" and makes determinations of credibility of witnesses and find the facts. The parties submit jury instructions (i.e. the LAW) to the judge and at a "charge conference" the Judge determines what law shall be given to the Judge of the facts (the jury)

IN a bench trial, the judge is both the finder of fact and determines the law. IN A BENCH trial, the judge normally requires each party to submit PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT and CONCLUSIONS OF LAW
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

No I didn't forget: I wasn't referring to bench trials because the subject was jury trials.
Your statement was a blanket statement covering trials. Not the specific type.
Here is your original comment.
The jury decided on his guilt. A judge can't do that in a trial.
Nowhere did you distinguish between the type of trials.
So while you may have meant only in jury trials you did not specify such.
So yes, a judge can do that in a trial, a bench trial, where the Judge is also the Jury.


Which is why I said, "for clarification purposes".
 
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Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

....and the word THUG don't forget, ya gotta call the victim a THUG, then murder is OK and it's open season on un-armed black teens.

He had arms, two of them.
 
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