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Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial[W:292]

Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

I had not heard that the suv was in motion. Who's testimony is that?

Tha's what was reported when the story broke. I didn't see the trial, but that's what I remember.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

the judge does not decide guilt or innocence

That's a fact. Get over it.

On CCW, and yet - again- I've made my case very clearly.

so if the judge throws out a conviction what has the court done

you have not made any case on CCW other than whining about it
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

that's even silly given the context Dana

No it's not actually. Excons argument amounts to "Lets just take the guys word for it."
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

That's true, but the judge does not decide guilt or innocence. As for guns, this is yet another instance in the case I keep making about not letting just anybody pack heat. You can yell all you want, but had that idiot Dunn not been allowed to carry, that kid would still be alive and Dunn would have a lot less to worry about.

just sayin'

So you would in essence use ESP to do this? We do not have the thought police in this country, we don't prosecute crimes beforehand without reasonable proof of a conspiracy etc. Please point out the evidence that would have stripped Dunn of his right to self defence under the law?
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

I wasn't the one arguing race until someone else tried to make this a blame whitey rant. I am merely noting that when it comes to interracial murders blacks kill far more whites than vice versa. and racism may have some role but may not depending on the crime.

That's true, but misses the underlying pattern:

White on white - 2,614
White on black - 193
Black on black - 2,412
Black on white - 431

Mostly, whites kill other whites and blacks kill other blacks.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

So you would in essence use ESP to do this? We do not have the thought police in this country, we don't prosecute crimes beforehand without reasonable proof of a conspiracy etc. Please point out the evidence that would have stripped Dunn of his right to self defence under the law?

jet57 wants to make CCW illegal apparently. he constantly posts stories of isolated incidents of stupid gun owners in a failing effort to argue CCW is dangerous to the public
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

No it's not actually. Excons argument amounts to "Lets just take the guys word for it."

Well if you are going to allow people to defend themselves, you have to take their word for the fact they felt their lives are threatened.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

That's true, but misses the underlying pattern:

White on white - 2,614
White on black - 193
Black on black - 2,412
Black on white - 431

Mostly, whites kill other whites and blacks kill other blacks.

that is obviously the case. never have denied it

you might do a study of violent crime in general-rape is rather interesting
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Well if you are going to allow people to defend themselves, you have to take their word for the fact they felt their lives are threatened.

No, we don't. But it is still innocent until proven guilty, so the State has to demonstrate beyond reasonable doubt that it wasn't self defense.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

No, we don't. But it is still innocent until proven guilty, so the State has to demonstrate beyond reasonable doubt that it wasn't self defense.

Shoot a black person. Tell me how innocent you will be treated, unless you prove your innocence in court. Then you are still guilty in the worlds court of opinion anyway and your life is over.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

so if the judge throws out a conviction what has the court done

you have not made any case on CCW other than whining about it

If a judhe throws out a conviction, it's based on some sort of factual impropriety of some sort and violation of the law. The judge is not deciding on guilt or innocence. The prossecution can decide to retry if they are able.

As for CCW; you lost that debate, It's another thread I'm not arguing it again here: that's off topic.

Either go back to that thread or start a new one: wherein I;ll probably just copy and paste all the evidence that beat you the first time.

:lamo
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

jet57 wants to make CCW illegal apparently. he constantly posts stories of isolated incidents of stupid gun owners in a failing effort to argue CCW is dangerous to the public

From what I saw, that's a fact.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Well if you are going to allow people to defend themselves, you have to take their word for the fact they felt their lives are threatened.

Yes you would IF you had no other evidence. In this case, he was shown to be lying.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

So you would in essence use ESP to do this? We do not have the thought police in this country, we don't prosecute crimes beforehand without reasonable proof of a conspiracy etc. Please point out the evidence that would have stripped Dunn of his right to self defence under the law?

(chuckle)

man

ESP.... (The nonsense of the right-wing is just astounding)

The law ought reflect that a person must show cause in order for concealed carry. Tha'ts how it used to be in California at least. I think it should be that way all over the US. But of course the gun nuts have seen to that, and as a result Dunn killed an unarmed kid who was playing his music too loud. Ya'see; Dunn's right to carry superceded that boy's right right to live... I mean right? That's what the gun nuts think. And of course, as usual then - stupid is as stupid does.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

If a judhe throws out a conviction, it's based on some sort of factual impropriety of some sort and violation of the law. The judge is not deciding on guilt or innocence. The prossecution can decide to retry if they are able.

As for CCW; you lost that debate, It's another thread I'm not arguing it again here: that's off topic.

Either go back to that thread or start a new one: wherein I;ll probably just copy and paste all the evidence that beat you the first time.

:lamo

it depends on the ruling. if it is based on a factual finding, no appeal by the government. If its based on a legal ruling by the court, the prosecution may move to reinstate the jury verdict. so you are neither right nor wrong.

I haven't lost because you never even stepped up to the plate. all you do is whine about isolated incidents of people being stupid.

Can you find anyone who has found that you made a winning argument
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

That's true, but misses the underlying pattern:

White on white - 2,614
White on black - 193
Black on black - 2,412
Black on white - 431

Mostly, whites kill other whites and blacks kill other blacks.

Taking into account the number of whites vs blacks, you would be more likely as a criminal to run into a white person no matter what race you are.

Informative post. Thanks.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

(chuckle)

man

ESP.... (The nonsense of the right-wing is just astounding)

The law ought reflect that a person must show cause in order for concealed carry. Tha'ts how it used to be in California at least. I think it should be that way all over the US. But of course the gun nuts have seen to that, and as a result Dunn killed an unarmed kid who was playing his music too loud. Ya'see; Dunn's right to carry superceded that boy's right right to live... I mean right? That's what the gun nuts think. And of course, as usual then - stupid is as stupid does.

in other words you like a law where rich people and whites get CCW and minorities and the poor cannot. that is what happens in "may issue" states. Joan Rivers-a big gun hater-had a CCW in new york while black and Latino taxi drivers almost never could get one even though cab drivers are far more likely to be attacked than aging liberal comics
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Well if you are going to allow people to defend themselves, you have to take their word for the fact they felt their lives are threatened.

No you don't. If that's all it took, almost no one could be convicted of murder - just utter the magic words "I felt threatened!"

In this case there is evidence the guy is a liar and sociopath who drives away from the scene of the shooting, orders pizza and goes to bed.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Taking into account the number of whites vs blacks, you would be more likely as a criminal to run into a white person no matter what race you are.

Informative post. Thanks.

lots of black on white violent crime is purely economic. store owners, bank guards, etc are more likely to be white. I was mugged by two blacks-I never believed it was racial. Evidence at the preliminary hearing (the mugger I did not shoot was taped in a jail cell) was that the two mopes had called a pizza delivery shop and intended to mug the deliveryman and I came upon them shortly before the pizza guy and since I was carrying a bag of groceries and had a college varsity jacket on that looked like the Pizza shop uniform, they attacked me. I am convinced that if the delivery guy had beat me to the scene, he would have been mugged no matter what his color.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Some people think that any white person should be able to kill any black person for no good reason and walk away smelling like a rose.

That's not the way that justice is supposed to work in the USA.



"If you do the crime, be prepared to do the time."

Oh he's gonna do the time. :lol:
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Shoot a black person. Tell me how innocent you will be treated, unless you prove your innocence in court. Then you are still guilty in the worlds court of opinion anyway and your life is over.

If that black person was unarmed, your life SHOULD be over.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

If that black person was unarmed, your life SHOULD be over.

I shot an unarmed black 18 year old

he and his partner jumped me in alley and one tried to choke me and the other hit me in the face, breaking my nose before I shot one of them. Under the law of the state, I had an absolute right to use deadly force to prevent a violent criminal assault upon my person. So tell me again why my life should have been over.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

Shoot an UNARMED black person. Tell me how innocent you will be treated, unless you prove your innocence in court. Then you are still guilty in the worlds court of opinion anyway and your life is over.

I added an important detail about the recent cases in the news.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

I had not heard that the suv was in motion. Who's testimony is that?

They tried to leave when Dunn was firing into the car.
 
Re: Michael Dunn found guilty of 1st-degree murder in loud-music trial

(chuckle)

man

ESP.... (The nonsense of the right-wing is just astounding)

So making an example of mind reading is now right wing?

The Appeal to Ridicule is a fallacy in which ridicule or mockery is substituted for evidence in an "argument."

The law ought reflect that a person must show cause in order for concealed carry.

Cause = Self defence. That was easy.

Tha'ts how it used to be in California at least. I think it should be that way all over the US. But of course the gun nuts have seen to that, and as a result Dunn killed an unarmed kid who was playing his music too loud.

Yes because the police who supposedly have training never... Oh wait. The rare occurrence, and it is very rare that a CCW carrier commits a crime let alone a murder does not support the stripping of a right.

Lets look at the facts rather than an emotional appeal fallacy...

Fact: Gun homicides were 10% higher in states with restrictive CCW laws, according to a study spanning 1980-2009

Fact: In Texas, citizens with concealed carry permits are 14 times less likely to commit a crime. They are also five times less likely to commit a violent crime.

Fact: People with concealed carry permits are:

5.7 times less likely to be arrested for violent offenses than the general public
13.5 times less likely to be arrested for non-violent offenses than the general public

Concealed Carry Laws Increase Crime

Myth: Concealed carry laws increase crime

Fact: Thirty-nine states, comprising the majority of the American population, are”right-to-carry” states. Statistics show that in these states the crime rate fell (or did not rise) after the right-to-carry law became active (as of July, 2006). Nine states restrict the right to carry and two deny it outright.
Fact: Crime rates involving gun owners with carry permits have consistently been about 0.02% of all carry permit holders since Florida’s right-to-carry law started in 1988.
Fact: After passing their concealed carry law, Florida’s homicide rate fell from 36% above the national average to 4% below, and remains below the national average (as of the last reporting period, 2005).
Fact: In Texas, murder rates fell 50% faster than the national average in the year after their concealed carry law passed. Rape rates fell 93% faster in the first year after enactment, and 500% faster in the second. Assaults fell 250% faster in the second year.
Fact: More to the point, crime is significantly higher in states without right-to-carry laws
Fact: States that disallow concealed carry have violent crime rates 11% higher than national averages.
Fact: Deaths and injuries from mass public shootings fall dramatically after right-to-carry concealed handgun laws are enacted. Between 1977 and 1995, the average death rate from mass shootings plummeted by up to 91% after such laws went into effect, and injuries dropped by over 80%.
- Concealed Carry Laws Increase Crime | Hawaii Concealed Carry

Ya'see; Dunn's right to carry superceded that boy's right right to live... I mean right?

The Appeal to Ridicule is a fallacy in which ridicule or mockery is substituted for evidence in an "argument."

That's what the gun nuts think. And of course, as usual then - stupid is as stupid does.

No. That is what people who don't know the statistics think. I guess "stupid is as stupid does." I mean it's not like you have a real argument.
 
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