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ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

Conservative said:
Answer the question, how many troops did the military ask for and how many did they get? Maybe Obama ought to play less golf and have fewer fund raisers and learn how to do the job. Leadership is about taking responsibility and not blaming someone else.
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Obama thought long and hard about Afghanistan unlike the last President whose contributions consisted of endless "find something on Saddam" diatribes. The fact that there are no good solutions is not Obama's fault. You can read about it if you want, but there are no golf games or fundraisers so I doubt you would be interested.

The three-month review that led to the escalate-then-exit strategy is a case study in decision making in the Obama White House — intense, methodical, rigorous, earnest and at times deeply frustrating for nearly all involved. It was a virtual seminar in Afghanistan and Pakistan, led by a president described by one participant as something “between a college professor and a gentle cross-examiner.”

Mr. Obama peppered advisers with questions and showed an insatiable demand for information, taxing analysts who prepared three dozen intelligence reports for him and Pentagon staff members who churned out thousands of pages of documents.

This account of how the president reached his decision is based on dozens of interviews with participants as well as a review of notes some of them took during Mr. Obama’s 10 meetings with his national security team. Most of those interviewed spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations, but their accounts have been matched against those of other participants wherever possible.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/06/world/asia/06reconstruct.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
 
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Hamster Buddha said:
That's a bit of a stretch. Had the Soviet Union of won, those very same refugees very well could of been forced into Pakistan to escape the oppression of the Soviet Puppet government. Also, it's important to keep in mind that the Soviet Union started that conflict, we were simply supporting freedom fighters that to Americans, were no different than those freedom fighters in Eastern Europe. Finally, it was important to check Soviet Aggression. We'd have a lot more problems if all of Asia was red...
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I never said that the US was at fault for the Taliban, Russia is. I can't say the same about ISIS. We are it's creators without a doubt. Invading countries causes upheavals and unforeseen circumstances. It is NEVER the "cakewalk" that the last administration tried to convince us it is. That is why neocons are so very dangerous.
 
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iguanaman said:
Listening to Generals has got us where we are now, no doubt. We are stuck in an endless circle of war without purpose or end. It's a Generals dream come true. No one cares about Generals in peacetime.
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weird, your previous post seemed to suggest the generals knew what they were doing... now you are ****ting on them.

what changed?
 
Grant said:
ISIS appeared after the forces left. Unless you include the timing of these events your analysis is meaningless.
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Yep ISIS just "poofed" into existence out of nowhere because Obama let them. Do a little research and you will find otherwise.
 
It has a quality of theater to it, all these wars. Deception, all the time. The viewer is being enticed into the story.

Smart weapons, cool videos, great technology. All they need is a steady source of bad guys to fight with.

The story conflicts with reality....
 
iguanaman said:
I never said that the US was at fault for the Taliban, Russia is. I can't say the same about ISIS. We are it's creators without a doubt. Invading countries causes upheavals and unforeseen circumstances. It is NEVER the "cakewalk" that the last administration tried to convince us it is. That is why neocons are so very dangerous.
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The "cakewalk" that they referred to, as I recall at any rate, was the invasion, and that was pretty easy. Though there certainly was an underestimation on how ready the Iraqis were to ruling themselves, that is no doubt and where Rumsfeld was a failure. I understand why they did it though... they assumed (as I did at the time) that people were the same the world over, and that setting up a new government there would be as easy as it was in Eastern Europe after the fall of the Soviet Union. But now we see how barbaric these people are, which is why we really need to stop toppling over dictators who can keep the rabble in line.

Henry David said:
It has a quality of theater to it, all these wars. Deception, all the time. The viewer is being enticed into the story.

Smart weapons, cool videos, great technology. All they need is a steady source of bad guys to fight with.

The story conflicts with reality....
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Are you (and iguana) saying the Arab Spring was an American invention?
 
iguanaman said:
Obama thought long and hard about Afghanistan unlike the last President whose contributions consisted of endless "find something on Saddam" diatribes. The fact that there are no good solutions is not Obama's fault. You can read about it if you want, but there are no golf games or fundraisers so I doubt you would be interested.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/06/world/asia/06reconstruct.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
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Look, I believe in the military leaders and others who have served rather than some liberal who doesn't have a clue how to win a war. Don't put a lot of faith in the NY Times article but noticed you ignored Obama's comments. Why is that?

Wonder if you even read the article? How many troops did Obama authorize?

There was no consensus yet on troop numbers, however, so Mr. Obama called a smaller group of advisers together on Oct. 26 to finally press Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Gates. Mrs. Clinton made it clear that she was comfortable with General McChrystal’s request for 40,000 troops or something close to it; Mr. Gates also favored a big force
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Henry David said:
It has a quality of theater to it, all these wars. Deception, all the time. The viewer is being enticed into the story.

Smart weapons, cool videos, great technology. All they need is a steady source of bad guys to fight with.

The story conflicts with reality....
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Yes, amazing isn't it how Obama bought the videos? Did we leave a stable Iraq as Obama claimed? Guess some people will never get it and you are in that group. Bush won the war and Obama lost the peace. Do liberals or even people like you ever admit when they are wrong?
 
Henry David said:
It has a quality of theater to it, all these wars. Deception, all the time. The viewer is being enticed into the story.

Smart weapons, cool videos, great technology. All they need is a steady source of bad guys to fight with.

The story conflicts with reality....
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It's just like those "reality" shows that are anything but. I would not want to be in Obama's shoes, it must be eating him up that there is no way out and all of the choices look like "doing stupid stuff" to him. Now the Anbar politicians are requesting US troops because the Iraqi army, that we spent billions to equip and train, will not fight to protect Sunni areas. Turkey won't help the Kurds so they are keeping the 2nd largest army in NATO at home while ISIS fights 1 mile from their border. Since when can NATO countries use sectarian nonsense as policy? It is a cluster**** of momentous proportions.
 
Conservative said:
Yes, amazing isn't it how Obama bought the videos? Did we leave a stable Iraq as Obama claimed? Guess some people will never get it and you are in that group. Bush won the war and Obama lost the peace. Do liberals or even people like you ever admit when they are wrong?
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You ask 2 questions, then accuse the reader of "not getting it", having never defined 'it', and that is supposed to be a rational post?

Videos show exactly what?

Bush didn't win the war, he waged the war, in accordance with instructions from others. Chill dude. :doh
 
iguanaman said:
It's just like those "reality" shows that are anything but. I would not want to be in Obama's shoes, it must be eating him up that there is no way out and all of the choices look like "doing stupid stuff" to him. Now the Anbar politicians are requesting US troops because the Iraqi army, that we spent billions to equip and train, will not fight to protect Sunni areas. Turkey won't help the Kurds so they are keeping the 2nd largest army in NATO at home while ISIS fights 1 mile from their border. Since when can NATO countries use sectarian nonsense as policy? It is a cluster**** of momentous proportions.
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Yes, amazing, isn't it??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKSb2ukQxvY
 
iguanaman said:
It's just like those "reality" shows that are anything but. I would not want to be in Obama's shoes, it must be eating him up that there is no way out and all of the choices look like "doing stupid stuff" to him. Now the Anbar politicians are requesting US troops because the Iraqi army, that we spent billions to equip and train, will not fight to protect Sunni areas. Turkey won't help the Kurds so they are keeping the 2nd largest army in NATO at home while ISIS fights 1 mile from their border. Since when can NATO countries use sectarian nonsense as policy? It is a cluster**** of momentous proportions.
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Yes, I would not be surprised if a major war broke out in the area. See where the cards fall....
 
Conservative said:
Yes, amazing isn't it how Obama bought the videos? Did we leave a stable Iraq as Obama claimed? Guess some people will never get it and you are in that group. Bush won the war and Obama lost the peace. Do liberals or even people like you ever admit when they are wrong?
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Yes Iraq was so peaceful and the Iraqi's were so grateful that they petitioned the U.N. to end their mandate and make us withdraw in 2008. Bush rushed to sign an agreement to stay longer and with much hooting and hollerin' got a 3 year reprieve. When 2011 came they were determined to get us to leave and we did. Are you saying the corrupt repressive sectarian Govt. Bush installed was the "victory"? That's quite a stretch.
 
Henry David said:
Obama doesn't care what I say, and I don't take it personally. :peace
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Obama lacks the leadership skills that require him to listen to others. His arrogance of full display and yet millions still support him. He certainly didn't listen to his military or civilian leaders, did he?
 
iguanaman said:
Yes Iraq was so peaceful and the Iraqi's were so grateful that they petitioned the U.N. to end their mandate and make us withdraw in 2008. Bush rushed to sign an agreement to stay longer and with much hooting and hollerin' got a 3 year reprieve. When 2011 came they were determined to get us to leave and we did. Are you saying the corrupt repressive sectarian Govt. Bush installed was the "victory"? That's quite a stretch.
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That is a lie and what you want to believe. Obama's arrogance led to the complete pull out and his victory speech. That is what you want to ignore along with all the other obama failures
 
iguanaman said:
Yes Iraq was so peaceful and the Iraqi's were so grateful that they petitioned the U.N. to end their mandate and make us withdraw in 2008. Bush rushed to sign an agreement to stay longer and with much hooting and hollerin' got a 3 year reprieve. When 2011 came they were determined to get us to leave and we did. Are you saying the corrupt repressive sectarian Govt. Bush installed was the "victory"? That's quite a stretch.
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That is a lie and what you want to believe. Obama's arrogance led to the complete pull out and his victory speech. That is what you want to ignore along with all the other obama failures.

The Status of Forces Agreement did not dictate a pull out in 2008 but then again facts don't matter to you
 
Hamster Buddha said:
The "cakewalk" that they referred to, as I recall at any rate, was the invasion, and that was pretty easy. Though there certainly was an underestimation on how ready the Iraqis were to ruling themselves, that is no doubt and where Rumsfeld was a failure. I understand why they did it though... they assumed (as I did at the time) that people were the same the world over, and that setting up a new government there would be as easy as it was in Eastern Europe after the fall of the Soviet Union. But now we see how barbaric these people are, which is why we really need to stop toppling over dictators who can keep the rabble in line.



Are you (and iguana) saying the Arab Spring was an American invention?
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There was also an underestimation that AQ would follow us from A-Stan and fight us in Iraq, AQI. Or that AQI would morph into the Islamic State in Iraq, migrate to Syria, in another power vacuum the US helped to create, tack an "S" on the end and become the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria! US interference, as correctly predicted by China and Russia three years ago has been destructive to the Middle East order, beneficial to militant Islamic groups and is spreading. But alas, US policy still, STILL finds support amongst patronizing Americans.
 
iguanaman said:
Yes Iraq was so peaceful and the Iraqi's were so grateful that they petitioned the U.N. to end their mandate and make us withdraw in 2008. Bush rushed to sign an agreement to stay longer and with much hooting and hollerin' got a 3 year reprieve. When 2011 came they were determined to get us to leave and we did. Are you saying the corrupt repressive sectarian Govt. Bush installed was the "victory"? That's quite a stretch.
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Of course nothing about Iraq post Mar. 19,2003 has been a success. But the Bush patrons will die with the myth carried like a football player holds the ball as he advances.
 
Montecresto said:
There was also an underestimation that AQ would follow us from A-Stan and fight us in Iraq, AQI. Or that AQI would morph into the Islamic State in Iraq, migrate to Syria, in another power vacuum the US helped to create, tack an "S" on the end and become the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria! US interference, as correctly predicted by China and Russia three years ago has been destructive to the Middle East order, beneficial to militant Islamic groups and is spreading. But alas, US policy still, STILL finds support amongst patronizing Americans.
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I don't think there was ever an inevitability about AQ going into Iraq. Really, our problems in Iraq in 06 and 07 had very little to do with Foreign Fighters and more to do with a Civil War between Sunni and Shia. Put it to you another way, had religion not been a concern in the government of Iraq, we never would of had the discrimination against the Sunni that we have/had today, and as a result, ISIS wouldn't of been able to make the in roads through Sunni territory in Iraq. And it's not about patronizing Americans, it's about Americans that still have hope for the people of the ME. And by the way that last thing tyrants like China and Russia want to see are free and stable countries in the middle east, because that might give ideas to the people within their own borders. It's not impossible mind you, Tunisia's worked out pretty well after all.
 
ISIS is kicking Obama's ass like pretty much everything else is.
 
Conservative said:
That is a lie and what you want to believe. Obama's arrogance led to the complete pull out and his victory speech. That is what you want to ignore along with all the other obama failures.

The Status of Forces Agreement did not dictate a pull out in 2008 but then again facts don't matter to you
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Before the SOFA we occupied Iraq under the U.N. mandate that was renewed yearly since 2003. In 2008, the Iraqi Govt. petitioned the U.N. to end the mandate and our "right" to occupy Iraq with it. Without the SOFA agreement signed by Bush in 2008 we would have been in violation of International law to remain in Iraq after 2009.

Abstract:

The formal acknowledgement of their status, responsibilities and obligations as the occupying power makes the US occupation of Iraq which began in April 21, 2003 unique. It marked the first instance since the inception of the UN that the invader or aggressor is acknowledging and accepting responsibilities as an occupier and the UN is given approval to the situation. UNSC Resolution 1483 was unanimously approved on May 22, 2003 to validate the occupation mandate in Iraq. It was interpreted in consonance with relevant provisions of The Hague Regulations and the 4th Geneva Conventions. Equipped with these legal documentsthis article weighs the performance of the US in her military occupation of Iraq. It concludes that there wereenormous limitations on the US to meet up their responsibilities and obligations as occupying power in Iraq. It recommends that aggression and invasion of sovereign states should remain abrogated. When war inevitableoccurs and there is military occupation; occupying powers should conscientiously adhere to the responsibilities and obligations embedded in the international law of occupation.
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UN Resolution 1483 Occupational Mandate and Limitations to the Obligations of US Forces in Iraq | IOSR Journals - Academia.edu
 
iguanaman said:
Yep ISIS just "poofed" into existence out of nowhere because Obama let them. Do a little research and you will find otherwise.
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In fact I've done a fair bit of research and have often posted it here. What do you want to know?
 
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