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ISIS Boasts Air Strikes are not Effective

Sometimes things just come together, without even having a plan, and sometimes even well made plans end up backfiring.

I'm saying that all he had to do is to sit back and watch those on the right inadvertantly make him a hero.

And yes, it is "a weird mixture of pathetic and funny as Hell." I'm glad we could agree on that part.

Part of the issue I have with liberals is you have this extraordinary inability to own your own actions and hold people of similar political ideology accountable for their own actions. It's always someone else's fault. There's always an excuse and someone else to blame. Hell...even NOW in your need to excuse, he only failed because he didn't wait long enough.
 
The media has hyped up the evilness and the power and strength of ISIS to the American public. You have Fox News which spent weeks ranting about Christians being persecuted by ISIS, and idiots like Rep. Trent Franks and Gov. Rick Perry, Lou Barletta, and Marco Rubio who have all been claiming that ISIS is planning on attacking us. That Franks guy claimed that we know it to be a fact that ISIS "we know that ISIS is present in Ciudad Juarez or they were within the last few weeks..."

Yes, the CIA, FBI, TSA, NSA, ASPCA and NCAA are all hanging out in border towns with pictures of all the ISIS people in case they show up. No doubt these agencies saw 10,000 heavily armed people in a white pickup truck with an ISIS lisence plate and maybe a bumper sticker outside a taqueria. I have NO doubt Trent Franks would believe that. He is an idiot.

Their plan is likely to invade Texas on Halloween, all of disguised in Trayvon Martin masks.

Franks and the other Tea Partisan morons in Washington have their followers all scared because Franks and Rubio and Perry actually believe each other!
 
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Here is an ISIS fighter boasting that the air strikes are not militarily effective.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/29/world/meast/isis-fighter-and-defector-interviews/index.

Sadly, he is probably right. ISIS is an army of militiamen operating is relatively small groups whose main armoured vehicles are pick up trucks turned into Mad Max style "technicals". Most supplies- and they dont need alot, are requisitioned from the locals (voluntarily, forcibly or coerced) and transported in individual civilian trucks. Likewise, there are not alot of easily demarcated front lines in the fighting.

As the similarily orgainized Serbs demonstrated in Kosovo, these types of forces mix in with civilians and can be very difficult to identify and stop. Then factor in that ISIS includes members who are veterans of both Iraq and Afghan conflicts who probably have a long list produced list of "dos and donts" produced by Darwinism when it comes to avoiding precision airstrikes.

In short, my guess is that effective air strikes need US spotters on the ground.

What do you expect ISIS to say?
 
Part of the issue I have with liberals is you

Why did you say "you"? I'm not a liberal. Have you ever met a liberal who wanted to eliminate means tested welfare, or who was willing to accept the flat rate income tax?

have this extraordinary inability to own your own actions and hold people of similar political ideology accountable for their own actions. It's always someone else's fault. There's always an excuse and someone else to blame. Hell...even NOW in your need to excuse, he only failed because he didn't wait long enough.

Who and I blaming, and for what? I just voiced my on opinion, my personal "reverse wag the dog" conspiracy theory. I didn't blame anyone for anything. Nor did I make excuses. I simply expressed my observations about this situation, and presented my theory as to why and how the events happened like they did.

I'm not excusing anyone for failure, I dunno what failure you are even talking about. The "war" against ISIS certainly hasn't failed, we are still in this thing.
 
Yes, the CIA, FBI, TSA, NSA, ASPCA and NCAA are all hanging out in border towns with pictures of all the ISIS people in case they show up. No doubt these agencies saw 10,000 heavily armed people in a white pickup truck with an ISIS lisence plate and maybe a bumper sticker outside a taqueria. I have NO doubt Trent Franks would believe that. He is an idiot.

Their plan is likely to invade Texas on Halloween, all of disguised in Trayvon Martin masks.

Franks and the other Tea Partisan morons in Washington have their followers all scared because Franks and Rubio and Perry actually believe each other!

Close. One frequent Fox News contributor, a retired army general, claimed that ISIS was going to attack us on Sept 11th of this year. Obviously, he was wrong...as usual.

The same guy also predicted that Iran was going to attack us with the missing passenger jet on that same date. That didn't happen either - imagine that.
 
Why did you say "you"? I'm not a liberal. Have you ever met a liberal who wanted to eliminate means tested welfare, or who was willing to accept the flat rate income tax?



Who and I blaming, and for what? I just voiced my on opinion, my personal "reverse wag the dog" conspiracy theory. I didn't blame anyone for anything. Nor did I make excuses. I simply expressed my observations about this situation, and presented my theory as to why and how the events happened like they did.

I'm not excusing anyone for failure, I dunno what failure you are even talking about. The "war" against ISIS certainly hasn't failed, we are still in this thing.

Sure you did. Is it REALLY so hard for you to say "Obama declared war and/because it is the right thing to do"? Or at LEAST because he BELIEVED it was the right thing to do and not because he was tricked and coerced by Fox News and those evil republicans? Geeeeeezus. It's the same pathetic thing again and again and again. It's not his fault. He didn't know. The rotate his homework. The sun was in his eyes. Fox News was mean to him.

You know what? Liberal politicians believed Saddam Hussein was a threat long before George Bush. They cite his threat and possession of WMDS long before Bush. Clinton took us to war citing genocide, just as Bush did. And Barrack Hussein By God Obama ****ed up, underestimated the ISIS threat, and is trying to rectify his mistake by striking them of his own free will and choice.
 
What do you expect ISIS to say?

Yes, one should expect ISIS to say something like this. Our military can see the BDA caused by the bombs easily enough. That is physical damage to buildings, bridges, structures. But there is a lot more that needs to be done besides blowing things up.

I think one way we will find out if we are really hurting ISIS or just causing them some pain will be how we interrupt their flow of communications, business transactions, money, etc. We can probably monitor somewhere between some to most of that. Then if ISIS moves into the cities, into schools, hospitals, mosques, etc to escape the bombing, they we know what we have done and are doing is hurting them instead of pin pricks.

ISIS then will be daring us to hit them, they would love nothing better than to have video of bombed schools, mosques, hospitals along with the dead to spread around the world. Time will tell, nothing to do now but to sit and wait, to watch and listen.
 
Obama does this to himself. Dont blame everyone else for noting the obvious.

Yeah, it was Obama who foolishly invaded Iraq, even though there was no WMD and no al Qaeda connection. It was Obama who destabilized the entire region by giving Iran hegemony and wasting billions on nation building in Afghanistan. It was Obama who alienated our allies by going it alone in an hare-brained policy of spending billions on a corrupt puppet government in Baghdad.

Wait . . . it wasn't . . .
 
Close. One frequent Fox News contributor, a retired army general, claimed that ISIS was going to attack us on Sept 11th of this year. Obviously, he was wrong...as usual.

The same guy also predicted that Iran was going to attack us with the missing passenger jet on that same date. That didn't happen either - imagine that.
Are you going to 'name names'?
 
Yeah, it was Obama who foolishly invaded Iraq, even though there was no WMD and no al Qaeda connection. It was Obama who destabilized the entire region by giving Iran hegemony and wasting billions on nation building in Afghanistan. It was Obama who alienated our allies by going it alone in an hare-brained policy of spending billions on a corrupt puppet government in Baghdad.
Wait . . . it wasn't . . .
And who said it was? Are you sure you're okay?
 
Yeah, it was Obama who foolishly invaded Iraq, even though there was no WMD and no al Qaeda connection. It was Obama who destabilized the entire region by giving Iran hegemony and wasting billions on nation building in Afghanistan. It was Obama who alienated our allies by going it alone in an hare-brained policy of spending billions on a corrupt puppet government in Baghdad.

Wait . . . it wasn't . . .

It was Obama who lost the Peace in Iraq for votes. To do so, he ignored (then blamed) his military staff, and the iraqi's.

No amount of hissing will change the facts. :2wave:
 
Sure you did. Is it REALLY so hard for you to say "Obama declared war and/because it is the right thing to do"?

Only congress has the ability to declare war. But aside from that, sure, Obama has ordered military action, call it a "war" if you like, and I can agree that it's a war, because it's the right thing to do.

Or at LEAST because he BELIEVED it was the right thing to do and not because he was tricked and coerced by Fox News and those evil republicans? Geeeeeezus. It's the same pathetic thing again and again and again. It's not his fault. He didn't know. The rotate his homework. The sun was in his eyes. Fox News was mean to him.

There is no "fault" to be placed. A particular series of events happened in another country, and we went to war. I don't understand why you are suggesting that there is any "fault".

You know what? Liberal politicians believed Saddam Hussein was a threat long before George Bush. They cite his threat and possession of WMDS long before Bush. Clinton took us to war citing genocide, just as Bush did. And Barrack Hussein By God Obama ****ed up, underestimated the ISIS threat, and is trying to rectify his mistake by striking them of his own free will and choice.

Obama ****ed up? How is that? Do we "go to war" every time there is any "evil" group in the world? Is he the president of the United States, or the president of the world? Was he the only one that underestimated the ISIS threat? The CIA and the US military didn't have anything to do with that underestimation? The Iraqi government didn't have anything to do with that?

And did anyone really underestimate the ISIS threat at all? Seems to me that the Iraqi government underestimated their ability to deal with any threat. The Iraqi military is and always has been worthless and weak. Regardless, I may be wrong about this, but it is sounding to me that ISIS has already fallen apart and is no longer a threat to anyone. I believe that the threat was far exagerated, and Obama took advantage of the opportunity to decimate an enemy that was far weaker than the median and some right wing hacks portrayed it to be, and he will come out looking like a brilliant war strategist for it (not that I am saying he is, he certainly isn't, but that's what it is going to appear to be to the American public, and unless the right wing is willing to admit that they were exagerating this minor threat into the worlds worst boogieman, which they won't, Obama will still look like a hero).

I'm just calling it like I see it. That's my opinion, you are welcome to your own opinion.
 
...That is physical damage to buildings, bridges, structures. But there is a lot more that needs to be done besides blowing things up.

How do you know that we need to do more? Are you with the CIA or the military? Do you have information that the government is not sharing with us?

Then if ISIS moves into the cities, into schools, hospitals, mosques, etc to escape the bombing, they we know what we have done and are doing is hurting them instead of pin pricks.

If ISIS does that then they are no longer taking additional territory, and they no longer pose a significant threat to the area. It's mighty hard to be in charge when you are hiding.

ISIS then will be daring us to hit them, they would love nothing better than to have video of bombed schools, mosques, hospitals along with the dead to spread around the world. Time will tell, nothing to do now but to sit and wait, to watch and listen.

If ISIS goes into hiding, then we won't have the need to hit them. Our mission will be accomplished. At least until they morph into the next muslum extremist group, and then we will have to repeat. This is something that is going to keep happening until muslums are willing to give up on extremism, which likely isn't going to be any time soon. Iraq will not be safe from radical groups until the next iron fist evil dictator, like Saddam Husein, takes over.
 
And who said it was? Are you sure you're okay?

Another conservative rhetorical trope: pretend that the logical implications of their claims don't count.
 
It was Obama who lost the Peace in Iraq for votes. To do so, he ignored (then blamed) his military staff, and the iraqi's.

No amount of hissing will change the facts. :2wave:

Ah the "lost the peace" talking point.

A perfect example of contentless ahistorical conservative swiftboating.
 
It was Obama who lost the Peace in Iraq for votes. To do so, he ignored (then blamed) his military staff, and the iraqi's.

No amount of hissing will change the facts. :2wave:

Please explain to our listening audience EXACTLY HOW Obama "lost the peace (no cap, it isn't a movie yet) in Iraq".....
 
How do you know that we need to do more? Are you with the CIA or the military? Do you have information that the government is not sharing with us?



If ISIS does that then they are no longer taking additional territory, and they no longer pose a significant threat to the area. It's mighty hard to be in charge when you are hiding.



If ISIS goes into hiding, then we won't have the need to hit them. Our mission will be accomplished. At least until they morph into the next muslum extremist group, and then we will have to repeat. This is something that is going to keep happening until muslums are willing to give up on extremism, which likely isn't going to be any time soon. Iraq will not be safe from radical groups until the next iron fist evil dictator, like Saddam Husein, takes over.

20 years active duty and another 26 working for the military as a Department of the Army Civilian. Retired from active duty in 1986 and from DOD in 2012. True for the most part about taking territory. If they move into hospitals, etc with all their commo, internet capabilities, and business capabilities and can operate from a hospital, mosque or school, they are still in business and really haven’t been that much degraded. They just moved from one bombed out structure into another they figure we will not bomb.

They will also be keeping all the territory they have conquered up to this point. Once their infrastructure and backbones are more or less secured, they can use small groups to attack and infiltrate shall I say Baghdad and other cities. Move more to a guerrilla campaign instead of more or less conventional warfare, hit and run, attack and retreat, sapper attacks etc. There are tons of possibilities to continue their attacks and gain some ground here and there, only utilizing different means and ways.


You may call moving headquarters, essential personnel, the planners, generals if you will, financial experts, tacticians, strategists, the leaders and their immediate subordinates and staffs into hospitals, mosques and schools and other areas that we find hard or lack the will to hit, bomb because of our concern for civilians, kids, old men and women, the sick, etc. hiding. I don’t, I call it smart strategy.

ISIS will continue to have the capabilities they do now, only they will be operating from more or less safe havens. That is not exactly what I call mission accomplished.

To answer your other question, no I have no inside knowledge. None what so ever. I really haven’t been paying much attention to the air strikes even. Outside of hearing on the news more were conducted. So you probably know more about what is being reported than I. I just gave my opinion on the air strikes, how I would figure whether they are being successful or not.

I really do not like to listen to all the talking military heads on the news channels, they give their view according to the political slant they believe in and the station they are a host, contributor or whatever on.
 
Sure you did. Is it REALLY so hard for you to say "Obama declared war and/because it is the right thing to do"? Or at LEAST because he BELIEVED it was the right thing to do and not because he was tricked and coerced by Fox News and those evil republicans? Geeeeeezus. It's the same pathetic thing again and again and again. It's not his fault. He didn't know. The rotate his homework. The sun was in his eyes. Fox News was mean to him.

Vance, Obama didn't declare war other than "declaring war on war", which is virtually meaningless. It is like giving someone the sleeves out of your vest.

As you know only Congress has the power to declare war and that gaggle of wastrels doesn't have the balls to even debate the possibility of war. If it does debate war it won't be until most of those gutless selfserving ******s have been re-elected. Such is their sense of urgency and allegiance, or shameful lack thereof.

Obama cannot declare war and Congress won't even feckin talk about it.

You know what? Liberal politicians believed Saddam Hussein was a threat long before George Bush. They cite his threat and possession of WMDS long before Bush. Clinton took us to war citing genocide, just as Bush did. And Barrack Hussein By God Obama ****ed up, underestimated the ISIS threat, and is trying to rectify his mistake by striking them of his own free will and choice.

The American people were lied to, shucked and jived regarding Iraq. We must have heard 5 reasons on why we needed to invade Iraq, all of them bogus and the tally in loss of human lives and suffering and the financial costs were/are astronomical. No war was declared. The public would never have signed on had they known the truth.
 
Here is an ISIS fighter boasting that the air strikes are not militarily effective.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/29/world/meast/isis-fighter-and-defector-interviews/index.

Sadly, he is probably right. ISIS is an army of militiamen operating is relatively small groups whose main armoured vehicles are pick up trucks turned into Mad Max style "technicals". Most supplies- and they dont need alot, are requisitioned from the locals (voluntarily, forcibly or coerced) and transported in individual civilian trucks. Likewise, there are not alot of easily demarcated front lines in the fighting.

As the similarily orgainized Serbs demonstrated in Kosovo, these types of forces mix in with civilians and can be very difficult to identify and stop. Then factor in that ISIS includes members who are veterans of both Iraq and Afghan conflicts who probably have a long list produced list of "dos and donts" produced by Darwinism when it comes to avoiding precision airstrikes.

In short, my guess is that effective air strikes need US spotters on the ground.

ISIS would change their mind in a heart beat if one of our air strikes happened to be nuclear. :mrgreen:
 
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