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Justice Department tellsFerguson police tostopwearing bracelets

They are not taking sides in an active investigation. They are showing support for one of their brothers who was hurt by a thug. The dead thug is supported by many live criminals.

Yeah, OK, another unbiased look at the situation. Thanks. Very persuasive.
 
I guess when the next cop gets killed in the line of duty, then we should also demand that the black bands over the badges not be worn as well in deference to the family of the shooters presumption of innocence.
 
Do they have a dress code that says they can't wear bracelets or not? We weren't talking about shirts over their blues, were we?

I don't know. Since their police chief has ordered them not to wear them, I assume they now do! I'm guessing the 'dress code' is what the boss says it is for the most part.

But this discussion is just us just giving our useless opinions here. I guess we disagree....
 
Fail, reload and try again

You said this:

and the blacks who shot two police officers have the "right" to be felonious assholes"?

It's an argument no one has made. Blacks, and even whites and browns!!, have no right to shoot police officers or otherwise be "felonious assholes."
 
I don't know. Since their police chief has ordered them not to wear them, I assume they now do! I'm guessing the 'dress code' is what the boss says it is for the most part.

But this discussion is just us just giving our useless opinions here. I guess we disagree....

Actually you're right...The local chief caved, or hell I don't know thought better of what was allowed given the volatility of the street right now, it just must be awfully frustrating for the others that know damned well that what is a totally trumped up scene right now for headlines.
 
I guess when the next cop gets killed in the line of duty, then we should also demand that the black bands over the badges not be worn as well in deference to the family of the shooters presumption of innocence.

I'm not sure why that would follow. In this case the unarmed person is dead, shot repeatedly by the police officer whose case is being presented before a grand jury. Entirely different facts often lead to entirely different conclusions.
 
I'm not sure why that would follow. In this case the unarmed person is dead, shot repeatedly by the police officer whose case is being presented before a grand jury. Entirely different facts often lead to entirely different conclusions.

yep, they sure do...Only so far the evidence we know of, shows that the "unarmed'' person was assaulting an in uniform police officer.
 
Yeah, OK, another unbiased look at the situation. Thanks. Very persuasive.
You are welcome. I keep my eyes open. The cop is innocent. The thug is both guilty and dead. All is right in the world.

If the cop was guilty by now the dozens of Justice Department jack booted thugs would have been crowing and spiking the football. Have they?
 
I don't know either, which is why I've pointed out 100 times the investigation is ongoing, the grand jury hasn't reached a decision, etc.

OK, I guess I just KNOW if it was my unarmed son killed or my unarmed best friend killed and the cops were wearing bracelets declaring their support for the killer, and patrolling protests of the killing of my son or friend or neighbor, it wouldn't give me confidence that the police who SERVE ME AND MY NEIGHBORS could be trusted. I'd look at it as a giant FU to my community by people we pay to serve US. If you can put yourself in their shoes and honestly believe otherwise, I guess that's fine. We just disagree.

But as a matter of policy, that many would feel as I do is enough reason to ban the officers from wearing them. They can show their support on their own time, off duty, out of uniform. Not while they're getting paid to serve that community that disagrees with them. I'd think this decision by the Police Chief (or whatever his title is) probably took about 5 seconds to reach, or as long as it took the question to be asked. The answer, "Are you kidding me? Hell no you can't wear that stuff on duty! Are you high? We're trying to defuse this situation, not make it worse!"

You start off ok then you swerve right into bigotry. Sure...if it was your kid I'm sure you might have your feelers hurt. But then you jump to 'your community' and immediately you have made it a racial incident. Does your 'community' then have to personally own all the violent crime and **** perpetrated by certain members of your community? Is your community condemned and subject to prejudgement?
 
Why does it have to make the statement that they are going to do whatever they want to do with impunity? Why cant it mean "We know him, we trust him, we believe in him, and we support him"?

For people that dont know Tony Stewart, he is a NASCAR driver that killed a kid on a race car track. Some people suggested he did it intentionally, while others...drivers that know him, fans, track owners, and many others associated with NASCAR and sprint track racing...believe he would never have done anything to intentionally harm the kid and fully supported him. Does that mean all those that support Tony Stewart are pro murdering stupid 20 year old kids? (the fact the 20 year old is found to have been under the influence of marijuana AND got out of his car and ran towards the driver on a dark slick dirt track notwithstanding)



Maybe that's what some of those cops were thinking.

But what effect did it have in Ferguson where most of the residents are Black and almost all of the cops are White? Those guys are tone deaf.

People doing things like that will never bring peace to Ferguson.
 
Maybe that's what some of those cops were thinking.

But what effect did it have in Ferguson where most of the residents are Black and almost all of the cops are White? Those guys are tone deaf.

People doing things like that will never bring peace to Ferguson.
If the situation were reversed and this was about one black person committing a questionable act and others showing him or her support, the supporters would not be asked to be tone deaf. And lets be honest...since the incident became public one side has been steadily clamoring for violent retribution on an entire community without any question as to whether or not the officer is actually guilty of a crime. Seems to me there would be a lot less a need for tone deaf law enforcement officers if there werent so many people clamoring for the destruction of an entire community based on a cause.

Let the now 2nd grand jury have the case. See if there is cause for a trial. If so, let there be a trial. If found innocent, then celebrate that the justice system worked. If found guilty...same thing. Until then...
 
You start off ok then you swerve right into bigotry. Sure...if it was your kid I'm sure you might have your feelers hurt. But then you jump to 'your community' and immediately you have made it a racial incident. Does your 'community' then have to personally own all the violent crime and **** perpetrated by certain members of your community? Is your community condemned and subject to prejudgement?

I think you're searching for something that isn't there. The "bigotry" comes out of nowhere, and I have no idea what your problem is with using the term 'community.' Is there no such thing in America, or it just doesn't apply to the people of Ferguson?

Bottom line is we just disagree on this.

I'll just sort of end it with this. It's clear that most conservatives don't have any clue what the actual complaints are by the protesters, or dismiss them as trivial whining. A lot of it comes down to many of the small towns in the county, including Ferguson, funding their little fiefdom police departments and their tiny little towns with petty traffic stops and levying fines that are quite burdensome on the poor, which includes lots of the area black population. So instead of the police being seen as peace keepers, they're looked at by the locals as a bunch of people paid to harass the population with quotas on traffic stops and tickets sufficient to pay the bills. That's how the towns are funded - huge shares of their budget from traffic fines. You ought to see the stats on stops per capita there, versus other areas of the state - sometimes 10 times the normal rate.

The point is the system sets the police against the population, or that's how the 'community' (not sure what word you'd prefer) sees it, instead of with them. And the fact is almost all the police are white, the prosecutors white, the judges white, the town leadership white, and the populations mostly black. Maybe it's not racial at all - perhaps poor is the relevant demographic description, and it just happens to overlap considerably with black. But the point is there's a lot going on in the background other than the one shooting.
 
I think you're searching for something that isn't there. The "bigotry" comes out of nowhere, and I have no idea what your problem is with using the term 'community.' Is there no such thing in America, or it just doesn't apply to the people of Ferguson?

Bottom line is we just disagree on this.

I'll just sort of end it with this. It's clear that most conservatives don't have any clue what the actual complaints are by the protesters, or dismiss them as trivial whining. A lot of it comes down to many of the small towns in the county, including Ferguson, funding their little fiefdom police departments and their tiny little towns with petty traffic stops and levying fines that are quite burdensome on the poor, which includes lots of the area black population. So instead of the police being seen as peace keepers, they're looked at by the locals as a bunch of people paid to harass the population with quotas on traffic stops and tickets sufficient to pay the bills. That's how the towns are funded - huge shares of their budget from traffic fines. You ought to see the stats on stops per capita there, versus other areas of the state - sometimes 10 times the normal rate.

The point is the system sets the police against the population, or that's how the 'community' (not sure what word you'd prefer) sees it, instead of with them. And the fact is almost all the police are white, the prosecutors white, the judges white, the town leadership white, and the populations mostly black. Maybe it's not racial at all - perhaps poor is the relevant demographic description, and it just happens to overlap considerably with black. But the point is there's a lot going on in the background other than the one shooting.
A 'community' was pillaged, riots occurred, businesses were lost. Race baiting charlatans rode into town and squeezed a few more drops out of the 'community'. The 'community' slaughters members of 'the community' on the daily and people like you dont give a ****. Now, there was an incident involving ONE ember of the community and one cop, a member of the community who minutes before the incident manhandled a store owner and in an incident where there are AT LEAST two sides to the story if not more. Tell you what...if you actually give half a **** about the 'community' you would have been there long before this incident promoting positive change WITHIN the community. You would get into that community AFTERWARD.

You and others like you rush to offer this pretense of concern and care for the 'community' and get all twisted when cops offer support for their 'community'. Funny how that works.
 
A 'community' was pillaged, riots occurred, businesses were lost. Race baiting charlatans rode into town and squeezed a few more drops out of the 'community'. The 'community' slaughters members of 'the community' on the daily and people like you dont give a ****. Now, there was an incident involving ONE ember of the community and one cop, a member of the community who minutes before the incident manhandled a store owner and in an incident where there are AT LEAST two sides to the story if not more. Tell you what...if you actually give half a **** about the 'community' you would have been there long before this incident promoting positive change WITHIN the community. You would get into that community AFTERWARD.

You and others like you rush to offer this pretense of concern and care for the 'community' and get all twisted when cops offer support for their 'community'. Funny how that works.

I have no idea where that hostility came from. It sure as hell wasn't anything I said about or to you. It was late, maybe you were drinking...

You're not there, so I guess you don't give a **** and don't pretend to give a ****? Then why are you discussing this. What have YOU personally done to make life better for the cops in Ferguson except the same damn thing I'm doing here? Have you visited with the officers? Been to St. Louis County in the last few weeks? Have you donated your time or money to the police departments in St. Louis County? I think you're throwing bricks in a glass house.

Not that I give a damn what you think, but I keep busy volunteering in my own f***ing community doing what I can. I'm pretty sure that doesn't mean as human and American, I must bow out of all discussions about every other city or town in the U.S. If we used that standard, this place would need to shut down, and you'd have a lot fewer posts than nearly 30,000.

BTW, and I'll end my participation here - I can only assume you are trying to miss the whole ****ing point. I am not twisted about the cops offering support for their community. How many damn times do I have to type "ON THE JOB, IN UNIFORM" before that qualification gets through? How many times do I have to say they should support their fellow officer on their own time, not while patrolling protests that are in part involving the person they're wearing rubber bracelets supporting. I've had maybe 30 posts on here and on not ONE of them can you find me condemning Wilson. I have no idea what happened that day. But neither does anyone else. I just think any person not a complete idiot could grasp that the bracelets on the job, in uniform, in Ferguson, while working protests is stupid, so f'ing stupid it's unbelievable anyone could actually think this was anything but the dumbest idea for something a cop could wear possible.

Besides, if the best they can f***ing do to support Darren Wilson is put on a damn rubber bracelet, Wilson's got a worthless bunch of allies.
 
I have no idea where that hostility came from. It sure as hell wasn't anything I said about or to you. It was late, maybe you were drinking...

You're not there, so I guess you don't give a **** and don't pretend to give a ****? Then why are you discussing this. What have YOU personally done to make life better for the cops in Ferguson except the same damn thing I'm doing here? Have you visited with the officers? Been to St. Louis County in the last few weeks? Have you donated your time or money to the police departments in St. Louis County? I think you're throwing bricks in a glass house.

Not that I give a damn what you think, but I keep busy volunteering in my own f***ing community doing what I can. I'm pretty sure that doesn't mean as human and American, I must bow out of all discussions about every other city or town in the U.S. If we used that standard, this place would need to shut down, and you'd have a lot fewer posts than nearly 30,000.

BTW, and I'll end my participation here - I can only assume you are trying to miss the whole ****ing point. I am not twisted about the cops offering support for their community. How many damn times do I have to type "ON THE JOB, IN UNIFORM" before that qualification gets through? How many times do I have to say they should support their fellow officer on their own time, not while patrolling protests that are in part involving the person they're wearing rubber bracelets supporting. I've had maybe 30 posts on here and on not ONE of them can you find me condemning Wilson. I have no idea what happened that day. But neither does anyone else. I just think any person not a complete idiot could grasp that the bracelets on the job, in uniform, in Ferguson, while working protests is stupid, so f'ing stupid it's unbelievable anyone could actually think this was anything but the dumbest idea for something a cop could wear possible.

Besides, if the best they can f***ing do to support Darren Wilson is put on a damn rubber bracelet, Wilson's got a worthless bunch of allies.
No hostility...just statement of fact. I get sometimes that stings a little bit. And how do you know thats 'all' they are doing to support him. For that matter...thats actually a HELL of an effective way to support him. They willingly open themselves up to scorn and hatred from people like yourself to publicly declare they believe in a fellow officer. They dare to actually support their 'community'. How dare they.
 
No hostility...just statement of fact. I get sometimes that stings a little bit. And how do you know thats 'all' they are doing to support him. For that matter...thats actually a HELL of an effective way to support him. They willingly open themselves up to scorn and hatred from people like yourself to publicly declare they believe in a fellow officer. They dare to actually support their 'community'. How dare they.

What facts are you talking about? I missed what you've done to support Wilson and the rest of his fellow officers.....

And it's a stupid way to support Wilson. It's a mystery how or why pissing off a big chunk of the town who pays your salary and people across the country is an effective approach to solving any problem, or supporting someone. If they make a bunch of people really mad, keep the black community in Ferguson riled up and aligned against them, the media focusing negative attention on the police force, that helps Wilson if there's a trial? How does that work? I'd love to see the dots connected on that.

It might make wingnuts feel better, but other than that, I can't see a big benefit.
 
Oh, is that what the DOJ is for? The thought police?

How is supporting a fellow officer, "racism"

The officer is WHITE, duh!
 
Jesus i hate liberals. They are all about innocent until proven guilty, that is unless a black thug was killed by a cop doing his job. Last i heard there is no way wilson gets indicted.

The doj has zero business telling a local pd what to wear,
 
What facts are you talking about? I missed what you've done to support Wilson and the rest of his fellow officers.....

And it's a stupid way to support Wilson. It's a mystery how or why pissing off a big chunk of the town who pays your salary and people across the country is an effective approach to solving any problem, or supporting someone. If they make a bunch of people really mad, keep the black community in Ferguson riled up and aligned against them, the media focusing negative attention on the police force, that helps Wilson if there's a trial? How does that work? I'd love to see the dots connected on that.

It might make wingnuts feel better, but other than that, I can't see a big benefit.
Nope...see...you are stuck on insisting they not support their OWN community.

I dont live there. I support both communities by NOT judging or condemning or blaming and by waiting until we actually know whats what to find the answers. In my OWN community, lets just say that I have spent more time behind bars with prisoners and on the outside with recently paroled felons working on actual change than you can possibly imagine.
 
Nope...see...you are stuck on insisting they not support their OWN community.

I dont live there. I support both communities by NOT judging or condemning or blaming and by waiting until we actually know whats what to find the answers. In my OWN community, lets just say that I have spent more time behind bars with prisoners and on the outside with recently paroled felons working on actual change than you can possibly imagine.

You're trying to miss the point, obviously. Me:

I am not twisted about the cops offering support for their community. How many damn times do I have to type "ON THE JOB, IN UNIFORM" before that qualification gets through? How many times do I have to say they should support their fellow officer on their own time, not while patrolling protests that are in part involving the person they're wearing rubber bracelets supporting.

I've said the same thing 10 times, and yet you still misrepresent my position. And waiting on you connecting the dots explaining how the bracelets are a good way to support Wilson.

And on the rest of it, you're digging a bigger hole for yourself. If you really cared about the Wilson or the police officers, you'd have been there. Right? That's the VanceMack standard for others! And you're making assumptions about someone you don't know a thing about.

Without going into details, I've been on the BOD for 6 years of a charity that takes and houses about 150 men, most of them homeless before they came to us and addicted to alcohol and/or drugs. Most of them with mental illness. About 60% of them veterans. Lots of folks use our place as their first stop out of prison for parole purposes. If we had more room, we could house 500 men based on our waiting list. They work, cook their own meals, pay their fines and child support, clean their rooms, etc. They file tax returns, and I know this because I prepare a bunch of them for them. Etc. We do good work for people who don't have a lot of options.

So good for you on your efforts. Those guys often need a lot of help. But you should avoid assuming you're somehow unique in this world, or that those who disagree with you must be bad people, instead of people who disagree but who have the same goals as you.

Anyway, we're about to get the ban hammer, so I think I'll bow out for good. Later.
 
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You're trying to miss the point, obviously. Me:



I've said the same thing 10 times, and yet you still misrepresent my position. And waiting on you connecting the dots explaining how the bracelets are a good way to support Wilson.

And on the rest of it, you're digging a bigger hole for yourself. If you really cared about the Wilson or the police officers, you'd have been there. Right? That's the VanceMack standard for others! And you're making assumptions about someone you don't know a thing about.

Without going into details, I've been on the BOD for 6 years of a charity that takes and houses about 150 men, most of them homeless before they came to us and addicted to alcohol and/or drugs. Most of them with mental illness. About 60% of them veterans. Lots of folks use our place as their first stop out of prison for parole purposes. If we had more room, we could house 500 men based on our waiting list. They work, cook their own meals, pay their fines and child support, clean their rooms, etc. They file tax returns, and I know this because I prepare a bunch of them for them. Etc. We do good work for people who don't have a lot of options.

So good for you on your efforts. Those guys often need a lot of help. But you should avoid assuming you're somehow unique in this world, or that those who disagree with you must be bad people, instead of people who disagree but who have the same goals as you.

Anyway, we're about to get the ban hammer, so I think I'll bow out for good. Later.
Never said you were a bad person. I DO think it comical all the people that come out of the woodwork with this pretense of 'care' 2-3 times a year. They are no different than the anti death penalty crowd or either side of the abortion debate. Life isnt about 'causes'.

Seriously...if people really cared about that community, their message MIGHT be hey...assholes...stop worrying about some cops wearing a wristband and start worrying that Johnny cant read, that Janey is knocked up again, that Joey is selling drugs on your front porch, and James just popped a cap in Tonesha next door. Start worrying that there are no jobs and no prospect of jobs. Start worrying about the 10 thousand people dead by members of the 'community' at LEAST as much as you worry about the 7 or 8 each year that are killed by cops under whatever circumstances.

Bracelets? People want to worry about bracelets? Man...Im talking about bracelets...not the game...bracelets. Bracelets y'all.
 
Never said you were a bad person. I DO think it comical all the people that come out of the woodwork with this pretense of 'care' 2-3 times a year. They are no different than the anti death penalty crowd or either side of the abortion debate. Life isnt about 'causes'.

No, you just wanted to point out you're better, which is totally different. And if you want to lecture someone about pretenses, how about you stick to people you know? Who are all "the people" that come out of the woodwork? How much time and money do they or I spend per year on charitable activities, and on which ones?

Seriously...if people really cared about that community, their message MIGHT be hey...assholes...stop worrying about some cops wearing a wristband and start worrying that Johnny cant read, that Janey is knocked up again, that Joey is selling drugs on your front porch, and James just popped a cap in Tonesha next door. Start worrying that there are no jobs and no prospect of jobs. Start worrying about the 10 thousand people dead by members of the 'community' at LEAST as much as you worry about the 7 or 8 each year that are killed by cops under whatever circumstances.

Bracelets? People want to worry about bracelets? Man...Im talking about bracelets...not the game...bracelets. Bracelets y'all.

Great advice. I'm sure I'll give it the same careful consideration as you give unsolicited advice from liberals you've never met about how to best direct YOUR volunteer efforts.
 
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No, you just wanted to point out you're better, which is totally different. And if you want to lecture someone about pretenses, how about you stick to people you know? Who are all "the people" that come out of the woodwork? How much time and money do I spend per year on charitable activities?



Great advice. I'm sure I'll give it the same careful consideration as you give unsolicited advice from liberals you've never met about how to best direct YOUR volunteer efforts.
Check the list of threads here daily. How often do you see the people that rush in to these threads about a police incident or George Zimmerman start threads about the 5 kids killed and 43 wounded in Chicago last weekend alone?

Please. You cant possibly think you are fooling anyone. Not even yourself.
 
Check the list of threads here daily. How often do you see the people that rush in to these threads about a police incident or George Zimmerman start threads about the 5 kids killed and 43 wounded in Chicago last weekend alone?

How many 2nd Amendment defenders start threads about the children accidentally killed by guns last week, or spouses shot and killed by their husbands with the gun they keep in the house for protection? And if the answer is zero, do you give me permission to disregard their views on the 2A because they didn't meet an arbitrary quota of my own making of other gun related threads started?

Please. You cant possibly think you are fooling anyone. Not even yourself.

This is a debate forum. We are essentially engaged in something about as meaningful to the lives of others as watching Judge Judy. This topic is by any measure on a trivial issue. The Ferguson Police Chief made a decision without either of our input to ban the bracelets. I'm not fooling myself into thinking what I do here matters to anyone. It's entertainment and a diversion from my work doing accounting and taxes. So you'll have to explain on what topic I'm fooling myself.
 
How many 2nd Amendment defenders start threads about the children accidentally killed by guns last week, or spouses shot and killed by their husbands with the gun they keep in the house for protection? And if the answer is zero, do you give me permission to disregard their views on the 2A because they didn't meet an arbitrary quota of my own making of other gun related threads started?



This is a debate forum. We are essentially engaged in something about as meaningful to the lives of others as watching Judge Judy. This topic is by any measure on a trivial issue. The Ferguson Police Chief made a decision without either of our input to ban the bracelets. I'm not fooling myself into thinking what I do here matters to anyone. It's entertainment and a diversion from my work doing accounting and taxes. So you'll have to explain on what topic I'm fooling myself.
For you to demonstrate a lack of consistency in the 2nd amendment defenders you would have to find some incidents where they are clamoring for control and others where they are not. I think your comparative analogy fails miserably.

Your 2nd amendment argument actually more accurately describes the same types that are offering the pretense of care about this incident. Why is it they ignore the day to day gun violence and only lose their mind when the victim is a cute little pink child and/or the perpetrator is a white male?

I can't speak for all the 2nd amendment types but I can tell you that I personally have consistently called for responsible gun ownership in every situation and increased penalties on everyone using a firearm in the commission of a violent crime. You want to try to play the snarky gotcha game, feel free to point out inconsistency in anything I have written regarding gun ownership. Good luck and have more fun than you can stand.
 
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