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Military to allow undocumented immigrants to serve

Binary_Digit said:
It's not unheard of to have non-citizens serving in the military. When I was in the Navy, most of the AKs (Aviation Storekeepers) and MSs (Mess Specialists i.e. cooks) were non-citizen Phillipinos. They dominated those ratings because they were among the few jobs non-citizens were allowed to have. Now that I've looked it up, it turns out there are almost 40 NECs that non-citizens are qualified for:

Navy Jobs Available to Non-U.S. Citizens

If done right, this probably won't be a bad thing.

But it really irks me that government is focused on immigration to help pad the elections when there are much more important reforms that need to be done.
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Bingo!!!
 
CRUE CAB said:
And I am sure they will be model citizens once sworn in. Just like the gang members have been.
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Yes, because clearly all "illegals" have the same character as gang members, so attributing sweeping and negative stereotypes to people who might qualify for this program who have agreed to serve the country is entirely appropriate. :shock: :doh
 
PirateMk1 said:
Why do they have to be native speakers?
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Technically, it's not required, but fluency at the native level is. 09Limas do not receive language training, except in English if needed.

The point of the job is to directly translate between the target language and English. Non-native speakers are not as good at it and those that are are few and far between.
 
I think it's a great idea. In fact I think it should be path to automatic citizenship. Serving in the military is no small thing and is something most Americans are not willing to do. Let them serve and give them citizenship as soon as they complete their enlistment.
 
How about an American Foreign Legion? Officers all American, enlisted all foreign.
 
TheNextEra said:
It's not the first time this has happened. We have had illegals join the military with the intent to become citizens in return for it.
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My buddies older brother joined the Marines and served in VietNam. I think there was lots of Canadians who did, but no idea if any used it as a route to citizenship. Mostly they just wanted in on the action, my guess.
 
iliveonramen said:
I actually would consider an undocumented immigrant that serves more of an American than most Americans.
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You'd give him citizenship no questions asked.
 
American said:
I just saw another newsflash about the Army laying off 10,000 personnel. So let's bring in illegals. :roll:
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Often those who are serving do so to gain training that will make them more favorable in the jobs market from mechanics to communications to whatever. The benefits to further their education once their tour of duty is completed is another factor. Others enlist as a choice for life. As far as I know there is testing each soldier completes to better choose his field. If they have the aptitude for learning languages, the military places them where they are needed and provides the additional training. To offer these benefits to illegal immigrants over another U.S. citizen is insane and a slap in the face. And anyone who thinks this is a good idea is one French fry short of a Happy Meal, one brick shy of a full load.
 
JasperL said:
Yes, because clearly all "illegals" have the same character as gang members, so attributing sweeping and negative stereotypes to people who might qualify for this program who have agreed to serve the country is entirely appropriate. :shock: :doh
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Welp, they already broke laws to get here. Why all of a sudden will they be awesome soldiers?
 
iliveonramen said:
I actually would consider an undocumented immigrant that serves more of an American than most Americans.
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So much I could say about that. But really it just makes me sad to know there are "americans" that feel that way.
 
pinqy said:
Technically, it's not required, but fluency at the native level is. 09Limas do not receive language training, except in English if needed.

The point of the job is to directly translate between the target language and English. Non-native speakers are not as good at it and those that are are few and far between.
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I was under the impression the military trained translators. If they do. Why the need for native level fluency if its not for spec ops or intel uses.
 
PirateMk1 said:
I was under the impression the military trained translators. If they do. Why the need for native level fluency if its not for spec ops or intel uses.
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These translators, the 09L native speakers, are specifically NOT for special operations or intelligence. Their role is to go out with patrols and translate for interactions with the natives population. Military trained linguists aren't heavily trained in speaking and don't usually achieve the fluency necessary, and they all do intelligence work.
 
American said:
Military to allow undocumented immigrants to serve


So we have no Americans or legal aliens that can do this? Really?
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I don't have a problem with this.

The only major problem is figuring out their past, considering our government has no way of figuring out weather one of these guys belonged to a drug cartel or had a criminal history in their "homeland" however, if someone wants to become a US citizen enough to actually go overseas and fight for our country and put their life on the line... I think that speaks volumes on their intent if they're honest.

However I am concerned that many only serve for intelligence (spy) purposes or for training and operation reasons.
 
mac said:
It's a way for people to earn citizenship while serving our country. That's a good thing. Far better than de facto amnesty, imho.
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Maybe we should ask for some legal immigrants to see if they can do the job and earn citizenship. There's more than one way to look at things. You're caught in the trap of believing the premise that illegals deserve any consideration at all, or should be the first considered.
 
American said:
You'd give him citizenship no questions asked.
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Probably, it's not as if American born citizens go through a rigorous citizenship process. There's a possibility that terrorist groups may try to use the military for citizenship but it's not as if there's no steps to join the military and there are lot easier ways to get into the country.
 
American said:
Maybe we should ask for some legal immigrants to see if they can do the job and earn citizenship. There's more than one way to look at things. You're caught in the trap of believing the premise that illegals deserve any consideration at all, or should be the first considered.
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Green card holders have always been eligible to join.
The MAVNI program was started in 2008 for legal immigrants who did not have a green card.
Now the MAVNI program is opened to not just legal non-green holders, but illegals as well.

So what you're suggesting should be done is already being done.
 
CRUE CAB said:
So much I could say about that. But really it just makes me sad to know there are "americans" that feel that way.
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Most Americans reap the benefits of being born here but wouldn't know the definition of sacrifice. They'd talk a big game as long as they weren't asked to deal with hardship. My Grandmother was alive during the depression and during WWII dealt with rationed items, collected old aluminum and other stuff for the war effort, and had her victory garden so that more food supplies could go to the troops. When was the last time Americans were asked to sacrifice in any way for our security? For a large segment of the population a 10 year war in Iraq had absolutely no consequence for their life. I'm not saying everyone should serve, but ****...trillions in debt added because rather than pay more in taxes to back the war Americans opted for their little tax cut.
 
iliveonramen said:
Most Americans reap the benefits of being born here but wouldn't know the definition of sacrifice. They'd talk a big game as long as they weren't asked to deal with hardship. My Grandmother was alive during the depression and during WWII dealt with rationed items, collected old aluminum and other stuff for the war effort, and had her victory garden so that more food supplies could go to the troops. When was the last time Americans were asked to sacrifice in any way for our security? For a large segment of the population a 10 year war in Iraq had absolutely no consequence for their life. I'm not saying everyone should serve, but ****...trillions in debt added because rather than pay more in taxes to back the war Americans opted for their little tax cut.
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Then you know. My parents, were born right before the depression, father quit high school to enlist in the Navy, served in the south pacific, then spent 20 years serving his city. Both my parents parents lost everything in the crash. So I know plenty about sacrifice through them as well as personal sacrifice.
So what? We are talking about today. We are talking about people that are coming in the back door then demanding rights. Not people like my grand parents that came off a boat with nothing.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Then you know. My parents, were born right before the depression, father quit high school to enlist in the Navy, served in the south pacific, then spent 20 years serving his city. Both my parents parents lost everything in the crash. So I know plenty about sacrifice through them as well as personal sacrifice.
So what? We are talking about today. We are talking about people that are coming in the back door then demanding rights. Not people like my grand parents that came off a boat with nothing.
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These people have nothing and are coming to the US to improve their lives and are only asking for the same rights your grandparents received. The US immigration policy when your grandparents came over made it VERY easy for someone of European descent to gain citizenship. They benefited from their access to this country, why on earth would you deny someone willing to enlist in the armed forces for getting the same benefits as your grandparents? Why are they different? The same things you're saying now was leveled at people like your grandparents when European immigrants from Italy, Ireland, Eastern Europe were coming over.
 
CRUE CAB said:
We are talking about people that are coming in the back door then demanding rights.
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I'm not talking about people like that. I'm talking about the MAVNI program which has opened up to illegal aliens with necessary skills. They didn't demand this, and very few will qualify. And we're talking about people who were brought here by their parents in the back door...not those intentionally coming here.
 
pinqy said:
I'm not talking about people like that. I'm talking about the MAVNI program which has opened up to illegal aliens with necessary skills. They didn't demand this, and very few will qualify. And we're talking about people who were brought here by their parents in the back door...not those intentionally coming here.
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Then they can apply for citizenship. Like anyone.
 
iliveonramen said:
These people have nothing and are coming to the US to improve their lives and are only asking for the same rights your grandparents received. The US immigration policy when your grandparents came over made it VERY easy for someone of European descent to gain citizenship. They benefited from their access to this country, why on earth would you deny someone willing to enlist in the armed forces for getting the same benefits as your grandparents? Why are they different? The same things you're saying now was leveled at people like your grandparents when European immigrants from Italy, Ireland, Eastern Europe were coming over.
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My grand parents worked for it, they didn't demand it. And no it wasn't. Every read about early 1900s immigrants and what hoops they were made to jump through. Hell, the even spelled my fathers name wrong and told my grand parents "too bad" its the American spelling now.
 
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