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No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

ecofarm said:
That seems like a safety idea as well; after all, who would advocate air guns being open access in Walmart. It would just be a matter of time until some kid does something stupid. I don't have access to Walmart's policy statement regarding air guns, so I guess we'll wait for the case.
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A kid getting access to an air rifle, then loading a pellet in it, and shooting it, is not as easy as one might think. The pellets are wrapped up pretty well, and not usually easy to get into, and the gun is boxed. THen there's the matter of many kids not having a clue as to how to load and shoot one.
 
lizzie said:
A kid getting access to an air rifle, then loading a pellet in it, and shooting it, is not as easy as one might think. The pellets are wrapped up pretty well, and not usually easy to get into, and the gun is boxed. THen there's the matter of many kids not having a clue as to how to load and shoot one.
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Even air guns should not be left laying around for random children wandering by.
 
ecofarm said:
Even air guns should not be left laying around for random children wandering by.
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They aren't. They are boxed, and they are on the shelf, and random children should be with a parent. Air rifles aren't weapons, nor are they firearms, and they don't have pellets in them while they are in the box.
 
lizzie said:
They aren't. They are boxed, and they are on the shelf, and random children should be with a parent. Air rifles aren't weapons, nor are they firearms, and they don't have pellets in them while they are in the box.
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And if they're not in the box...
 
ecofarm said:
And if they're not in the box...
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Well, I haven't seen any place yet that doesn't leave them boxed for selling off the shelf, except maybe a pawn shop, and they aren't going to let you try them out in the store.
 
lizzie said:
Well, I haven't seen any place yet that doesn't leave them boxed for selling off the shelf, except maybe a pawn shop, and they aren't going to let you try them out in the store.
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My point is, leaving them laying about in the open for any passerby to play with is not store policy for reasons beyond theft-prevention.
 
ecofarm said:
My point is, leaving them laying about in the open for any passerby to play with is not store policy for reasons beyond theft-prevention.
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But they aren't laying about in the open. They are boxed and on the shelves. They aren't locked in a cabinet, because they aren't firearms, and they aren't particularly valuable. They aren't easy to steal, because they are large.
 
ecofarm said:
This one was.
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And it was also a grown man being a moron.
Air rifles aren't weapons, and they aren't typically valuable, unless you're a collector as I am, and you aren't going to find the kind of air rifles I buy on the shelf at a sporting goods store. There is no reason to put air rifles in a gun cabinet or a locked display.
 
americanwoman said:
Do you think in this case it was? To me it looked like he blatantly misrepresented the facts when he said said the guy was reloading and pointing guns at children when the surveillance shows otherwise.
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Actually he said, it looks like he's trying to load it. And it did. I do think he exaggerated when he stated that he pointed it at the kids. But he was waving it around carelessly. A pellet rifle is no toy and could seriously injure or kill someone. Besides, this gun was designed to look like a real rifle.
 
countryboy said:
Actually he said, it looks like he's trying to load it. And it did. I do think he exaggerated when he stated that he pointed it at the kids. But he was waving it around carelessly. A pellet rifle is no toy and could seriously injure or kill someone. Besides, this gun was designed to look like a real rifle.
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You see these characteristics of the MK-177 (the bb/ pellet rifle in question)? This is a toy:

•Caliber: .177
•Length of pull: 12"
•Cocking effort: 12-14 lbs
•Barrel length: 16.75"
•Overall length: 33"
•Weight: 3 lbs 5 oz

My air rifles are usually 7-12 pounds, with a 25-35 pound cocking effort, and length of pull is adult size.
 
lizzie said:
And it was also a grown man being a moron.
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Are we sure there is not disability? I don't get how an adult fails to drop the gun.
 
lizzie said:
So, are you thinking he was retarded? Have you seen evidence of that in the media?
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I'm guessing. How does an adult not drop the gun when confronted by police pointing guns?

If cops point at me and say "drop it", I'll drop a baby - I ain't gettin' shot.
 
ecofarm said:
I'm guessing. How does an adult not drop the gun when confronted by police pointing guns?

If cops point at me and say "drop it", I'll drop a baby - I ain't gettin' shot.
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I'm not either. I don't know what all happened, as I wasn't there. I do know that any adult who is of sound mind, who waves what someone would perceive as a weapon around, isn't too bright. I'm not justifying the shooting, as I think cops are getting way too jumpy and trigger-happy over the past few years, but this guy apparently had no clue.
 
lizzie said:
this guy apparently had no clue.
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Perhaps he thought he was being arrested for shoplifting as opposed to cops being in fear of their lives.

Something like...

Well, I was going to put it back, here, you take it...
 
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lizzie said:
You see these characteristics of the MK-177 (the bb/ pellet rifle in question)? This is a toy:

•Caliber: .177
•Length of pull: 12"
•Cocking effort: 12-14 lbs
•Barrel length: 16.75"
•Overall length: 33"
•Weight: 3 lbs 5 oz

My air rifles are usually 7-12 pounds, with a 25-35 pound cocking effort, and length of pull is adult size.
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I am well aware of the specs for the pellet gun involved in this incident. You are simply wrong. No bb or pellet gun, regardless of their muzzle velocities, is a toy. End of story. You can make that claim until you're blue in the face, and you will still be wrong. Would you give a small child a Daisy Red Ryder BB gun to play with? Of course you wouldn't. That is absurd.
 
countryboy said:
I am well aware of the specs for the pellet gun involved in this incident. You are simply wrong. No bb or pellet gun, regardless of their muzzle velocities, is a toy. End of story. You can make that claim until you're blue in the face, and you will still be wrong. Would you give a small child a Daisy Red Ryder BB gun to play with? Of course you wouldn't. That is absurd.
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Compared to a pb rifle, the MK177 most certainly is a toy, and there is no comparison wrt lethality. None.
 
countryboy said:
Would you give a small child a Daisy Red Ryder BB gun to play with? Of course you wouldn't. That is absurd.
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They'll shoot their eye out.
 
ecofarm said:
They'll shoot their eye out.
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Exactly. And that's with a Daisy Red Ryder. A pellet rifle with a pellet velocity of 750 feet per second will do much more than that.
 
lizzie said:
You see these characteristics of the MK-177 (the bb/ pellet rifle in question)? This is a toy:

•Caliber: .177
•Length of pull: 12"
•Cocking effort: 12-14 lbs
•Barrel length: 16.75"
•Overall length: 33"
•Weight: 3 lbs 5 oz

My air rifles are usually 7-12 pounds, with a 25-35 pound cocking effort, and length of pull is adult size.
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By the way, this is from the same page as the "characteristics" you listed.

NOT A TOY. ADULT SUPERVISION REQUIRED. MISUSE OR CARELESS USE MAY CAUSE SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH. BE CAREFUL, SHOOT SAFELY.
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CanadaJohn said:
Yes, indeed, most mothers who supposedly feel threatened, with two small children in tow, will reenter a store where a lunatic is supposedly threatening people with a rifle. And you call bull? That's hilarious.
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Are you unaware of varying levels of threat that people can feel? You don't have to feel that you are personally in imminent danger of losing your life to still feel threatened. Life isn't black or white, no matter how much you may want it to be. She didn't go back or allow her children to go back to the area. She didn't stay in the garden section long enough to have intended to go there before seeing the guy, so it is obvious that it is the guy with the gun that prompted her to go there to begin with. We don't know why she went back in the store, possibly because she wasn't getting any help from the staff, no one else seemed to care, maybe she couldn't find anyone else that could deal with it, maybe they said they knew about him already and that alleviated enough fear for her to return to the store, but walk away from the man. We simply don't know. But saying that she didn't see him or wasn't worried/threatened by him at all is not the case from what is in that video.
 
roguenuke said:
Are you unaware of varying levels of threat that people can feel? You don't have to feel that you are personally in imminent danger of losing your life to still feel threatened. Life isn't black or white, no matter how much you may want it to be. She didn't go back or allow her children to go back to the area. She didn't stay in the garden section long enough to have intended to go there before seeing the guy, so it is obvious that it is the guy with the gun that prompted her to go there to begin with. We don't know why she went back in the store, possibly because she wasn't getting any help from the staff, no one else seemed to care, maybe she couldn't find anyone else that could deal with it, maybe they said they knew about him already and that alleviated enough fear for her to return to the store, but walk away from the man. We simply don't know. But saying that she didn't see him or wasn't worried/threatened by him at all is not the case from what is in that video.
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Isn't the woman in the video with the two kids, the same one who later died of cardiac arrest? I read that in one account, but admittedly, some of the "news stories" are sketchy.
 
countryboy said:
Isn't the woman in the video with the two kids, the same one who later died of cardiac arrest? I read that in one account, but admittedly, some of the "news stories" are sketchy.
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No idea. Haven't looked that far into this only knew that someone else was reported to have died of a heart attack or something
 
ecofarm said:
I'm guessing. How does an adult not drop the gun when confronted by police pointing guns?

If cops point at me and say "drop it", I'll drop a baby - I ain't gettin' shot.
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It should be noted that the cops didn't really give time for the guy to drop the gun. They said drop it, then shot. Maybe 2 seconds in between the words and the shooting. It would take that long at least for the brain to process such information of what was being said and what the guy was seeing into action. You can hear in the video the cops telling the guy to drop it and see the result of what happened after those words were said. I believe that the cops didn't give the guy enough time to actually drop the air gun. That said I don't blame the cops either as noted in a previous post.
 
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