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Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum[W:234]

Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

I'm just asking why some who are downplaying civil disobedience and promoting a wholesome patriotic pro-American view stops at the highest level of our president, who gets put under fire at any given chance by those same people. I am in no way trying to squelch opposition to Obama, just wondering why the hypocrisy.

Because it isn't a hypocrisy. Objecting to the policies of the president are neither unpatriotic nor civil disobedience or anti-American.

The issue as I see it is that many want to sell civil disobedience as intrinsically moral and good when in fact it should be a last resort. Civil Disobedience will develop naturally from the circumstances when the person or group finds no civil redress for their complaint. Sold as an equivalent method of redress just circumvents the civil paths to redress.

Teaching proper civil behavior, for example, would entail the good of civil protest for objecting to wrongs while also rejecting store looting and fires as valid forms of protest.
 
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Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

Yeah, that'll work. After hearing at school about the positive benefits of slavery and the enlightened treatment of the American Indian, they can go buy a real history book and spend their free time reading it. :lamo

Or take two seconds and call it up on their phone choosing from virtually all history ever recorded.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

Country is government.

False. Full stop. The words are not synonyms. Learn the words before you argue them.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

The issue as I see it is that many want to sell civil disobedience as intrinsically moral and good when in fact it should be a last resort. Civil Disobedience will develop naturally from the circumstances when the person or group finds no civil redress for their complaint. Sold as an equivalent method of redress just circumvents the civil paths to redress.

Teaching proper civil behavior, for example, would entail the good of civil protest for objecting to wrongs while also rejecting store looting and fires as valid forms of protest.

Okay I can agree but would you also agree that kind of subject matter would be more suited to social studies (is that even still a class??) rather than history? You don't need to teach historic civil unrests or protests with a bias, they should be taught as they really happened with no bias either way.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

I don't know how old you are, or how intelligent you think you are, but... based on the above, and the fact that many of my closest friends have laid down their lives for this country, in the greatest possible selfless act of patriotism, I have to disagree with your statement in this the most vehement way possible, without using the words that I want to use to describe you and your statement that would surely get me banned for life from this forum.

you can say whatever you want. I simply wasn't making an absolute statement that had nothing to do with your friends. It just means that there are ways to die for your country that are not for the rights and liberties of the People. Don't like it? Don't care. That's your problem, you should learn to deal with it.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

False. Full stop. The words are not synonyms. Learn the words before you argue them.

Opinion, nothing more. Country can be The People or it can be The State. Just because the facts of the word go against your opinion of what it should be, doesn't mean you've made a proper argument. You haven't. You're just spinning your wheels desperately trying to throw semantics out there in the hope that it confuses things long enough for you to make your debate escape.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

Sounds like they need a good old fashioned book burning.

After that, they can go and break some windows of known Muslims.

And finally, they can go home and read 'Mein America'.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

Okay I can agree but would you also agree that kind of subject matter would be more suited to social studies (is that even still a class??) rather than history? You don't need to teach historic civil unrests or protests with a bias, they should be taught as they really happened with no bias either way.

Well, no. Social Studies should be for the general study of civilization and of cultures around the world.

Not sure how old you are, but there was a time when Civics was part of the core school curriculum. Civics class died out with the increasing liberalization of public schools. What was once taught in Civics Class is no different than what the Denver school board is trying to get added to the curriculum now.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

Its not HS, its college. Students are expected to form opinions based on facts. Its more about they why and how as opposed to the where and when. Each discipline whether it be history, sociology, economics etc. has different schools of thought and models. In economics, for example, most undergraduate programs teach Keynesian macroeconomics. Other schools of thought are not taught and mostly ignored. Their are marxist viewpoints on broad sweeps of history and sociology. I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if this was the predominant view of college professors.



I think neither anti nor pro American bias should be taught. Just teach the kids the facts without any bias either way and let them make their own conclusions on historic events.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

Protest is the part of a democratic government. It is there right to protest our opinions are different from each other.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum changes that would promote patriotism | Fox News






I'm with the students on this one. Complete bs on the part of that school board. No curriculum should be biased or censored, just straight facts.

Here here.

Of course what we see here, is that when it comes to conservatives and education, it's not about what's real or factual so much as it is about their own agenda of training young minds to be conservative right-wing pundits. This is of course to lead into creationism being taught as credible science as well. The students are smart enough to see this cominng and I applaud them for having the fortitude to do something about it.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

Equality is the very thing liberal textbooks don't teach about American history.

Only, and I do mean only European Christians are held accountable for any moral behavior. That is THE message.

Slavery, along with allowing few rights for women, and a culture of child abuse were all part of every Native American (Amerindian) tribe throughout the thousands of years before Columbus.
Yet, it was only the very European Christians that gave the world democracy and began the end of slavery in the West that were "wrong" for having slaves. Such racist bull.
If it was wrong for Washington and Jefferson to have slaves, then it should have been wrong for every Amerindian chief during the same time period to have them as well.

"They should have known better."

Another biased lie is that Europeans were evil by taking over the land of the peaceful noble savages who were just rowing their canoes and smoking peace pipes for 15,000 years before they were unfairly routed.

From when thier native ancestors from Asia and Europe first set foot on the land eons ago, there has been warfare and genocide.

In Comancheria the lands of the Southern US plains, the Comanche tribes killed and drove off the Western Apaches by around 1700 AD. The Western Apaches had done the same thing to the former inhabitants, as they had done the same. And on and on. The Comanche were the most warlike and brutal of all Amerindian tribes. Torture and mutilation was expected on anyone outside their ethnic group they came upon. Young children and women were taken as captives and sex toys. The rest, exterminated.
The Comanches kept the Spanish from occupying their territory, and it wasn't until the 1870's that better armed Anglos finally put their bloody reign of terror to an end.

Comanches: The History Of A People by T.R. Fehrenbach | 9780307774002 | NOOK Book (eBook) | Barnes & Noble

Amerindians should always be held to the same moral and behavioral standards as the Europeans. Their objectives were the same as all people throughout history: To gain and defend territory.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

Well, no. Social Studies should be for the general study of civilization and of cultures around the world.

Not sure how old you are, but there was a time when Civics was part of the core school curriculum. Civics class died out with the increasing liberalization of public schools. What was once taught in Civics Class is no different than what the Denver school board is trying to get added to the curriculum now.


I never had a civics class but from what I know about it, my social studies class had civics as part of the curriculum for that course.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

Its not HS, its college. Students are expected to form opinions based on facts. Its more about they why and how as opposed to the where and when. Each discipline whether it be history, sociology, economics etc. has different schools of thought and models. In economics, for example, most undergraduate programs teach Keynesian macroeconomics. Other schools of thought are not taught and mostly ignored. Their are marxist viewpoints on broad sweeps of history and sociology. I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if this was the predominant view of college professors.

What are you talking about? This is about high school students protesting.:confused:
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

Oh. Well, never mind. Sort of. Stupid ass kids. Probably hopped up on dope.



What are you talking about? This is about high school students protesting.:confused:
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

Protest is the part of a democratic government. It is there right to protest our opinions are different from each other.

Submitting your grievances to government is what that right is all about, leaving work and school to make more work for the street sweepers is far, far down on the chain if options. In any event, with rights come responsibilities. These yahoos have a responsibility to first submit and try to address their grievances with the government before going all mob.

Every student who skipped class should be dinged, every teacher, fired.
 
Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum changes that would promote patriotism | Fox News







I'm with the students on this one. Complete bs on the part of that school board. No curriculum should be biased or censored, just straight facts.

I'll read the details in a short bit, but I must make it known that "just the facts" history doesn't actually exist, including public school curriculum. Over the past 20 years, for instance, there has been a rise in countering some of what historians would consider the liberal/conservative consensus in the post-war 20th century. The relatively recent (but still about 20 years) narrative has been that the United States history is about a constant revaluation of how it can fulfill its promise. This has been more about cultural pluralism, minority status, and civil rights activism than it had in the past.

That's a narrative choice, bore from more than "just the facts."

Now, broadly speaking, instilling patriotism, hardly a unique and detrimental aspect of existing public school social studies, is a good thing.

After that, respect for authority, also not unique and detrimental in existing public school social studies, is a good thing.

Downplaying the desirability of civil disobedience, while I am personally sympathetic toward that idea, is not really appropriate. I think at most we can bring forth the idea that civil disobedience is an inherently controversial tactic (thus entertaining why the tactics themselves may be seen as wrong, just as you would entertain why they are seen as right or justified).

That being said, these are slogans, and hopefully I could find what the standards actually say and perhaps a comparison with prior standards. Much of the time, I have a hard time believing that patriotism, respect for authority, and an examination of controversial ideas are not allowed or are not somehow a mainstay of the existing instruction.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

Okay I can agree but would you also agree that kind of subject matter would be more suited to social studies (is that even still a class??) rather than history? You don't need to teach historic civil unrests or protests with a bias, they should be taught as they really happened with no bias either way.

History can't possibly be taught the way it really happened b/c there are ideological agendas to be pushed, and reputations to build up and tear down.

To that end, "patriotic" history was scrapped decades ago, and in its place progressive social views, the teaching of "democracy", a loosely defined Constitution, Keynesian economics, etc, were introduced to move the people off of their firmly held beliefs related to republican government, federalism, nationalism, and patriotism.

What is being taught today simply cannot be taught along side the principles of freedom, b/c they are diametrically opposed to the principles of freedom. Authoritarianism and liberty cannot coexist within the same society, or the same curriculum for obvious reasons - the advocates of liberty are constantly trying to thwart the advances of the authoritarians - as our Founding Fathers warned repeatedly (obviously no longer taught); and the authoritarians are constantly trying to indoctrinate the masses to accept the velvet chains they're being offered.

We're so far down the line now, that multiple generations of Americans have been exposed to and indoctrinated into accepting authoritarianism as the foundation of their their society. They have been sold this bill of goods in the name liberty, individualism, free speech, and democracy - when in reality they have been indoctrinated into groupthink, approved speech, collectivist notions of property, and the tyranny of the majority.

1960's Soviet defector Yuri Bezmenov used to tour the United States and give lectures and speeches on the topic of "active measures" and Gramscian strategy, i.e. how America's enemies had already successfully infiltrated her institutions and had already realized successes beyond their most optimistic projections. Even as far back as the 1960's - the damage had already been done, and as Bezmenov said, the process was all-but irreversible. All that needed to be done from there, was simply sit back and watch America destroy herself from within; which is exactly what is happening to America today - we are nearing the end of that process.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

History is facts, it's a recording of what happened...those are measured systems. Speaking factually doesn't have to be done in a boring mannerism.

No, not really. History can have facts and is based on facts, but most of the discipline's energy is spent on interpreting source material and inherently centers on a subjective framework of analysis.
 
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Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

Or take two seconds and call it up on their phone choosing from virtually all history ever recorded.

Then why have school at all? Let's just let kids learn on their own, without the necessity for schools or teachers or textbooks or tests. Your answer to propaganda posing as education is to 'let them learn after school'?
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

I'm socially liberal, but I support the school board on this issue. The reason is, both liberals and conservatives try to influence education ideologically, but liberals are far more successful because colleges are overwhelmingly liberal. When I went to my liberal arts college, I had to take a "social justice" course as part of my education major. The first thing the teacher said was that whites are the oppressor race and non whites are the oppressed races, and that was the entire message of the course. And they were teaching us this so that when we became teachers, we would teach this message to children. I'm sure that a lot of colleges are doing this. So when this Colorado school board wants to promote patriotism, citizenship, etc I view it as a fairly moderate counter to an education system that's already been hijacked by liberal ideology. At their worst, conservatives are jingoists who are critical of every society but their own. At their worst, liberals are "social justice warriors" who are critical of their own society but not of anyone else's. Both are mindless, dangerous extremes. However, the liberal extreme presents the bigger threat to society right now in my opinion, and it's certainly the one most present in children's education.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

And the curriculum the right wingers are promoting will ensure they get one

OK, now THAT was funny.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

I'm socially liberal, but I support the school board on this issue. The reason is, both liberals and conservatives try to influence education ideologically, but liberals are far more successful because colleges are overwhelmingly liberal. When I went to my liberal arts college, I had to take a "social justice" course as part of my education major. The first thing the teacher said was that whites are the oppressor race and non whites are the oppressed races, and that was the entire message of the course. And they were teaching us this so that when we became teachers, we would teach this message to children. I'm sure that a lot of colleges are doing this. So when this Colorado school board wants to promote patriotism, citizenship, etc I view it as a fairly moderate counter to an education system that's already been hijacked by liberal ideology. At their worst, conservatives are jingoists who are critical of every society but their own. At their worst, liberals are "social justice warriors" who are critical of their own society but not of anyone else's. Both are mindless, dangerous extremes. However, the liberal extreme presents the bigger threat to society right now in my opinion, and it's certainly the one most present in children's education.

Conceptually, yes, but I think it is worth reminding people that public school history teaching is often inherently a somewhat conservative position. Unless you are encouraging students to read Howard Zinn, it is more likely you are attempting to balance the concerns of liberals and conservatives. You often avoid doing something which can cause a parent to complain, which tends to benefit the status-quo more than a progressive cause.
 
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