• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum[W:234]

Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

clownboy said:
Sorry AM, the small government argument is out of place here, this is a local action, the small government thing has always applied to the federal government.
Click to expand...


This is not a local action, per the article it's a conservative movement in multiple parts of the country.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

clownboy said:
I'd agree with you there if that were at all humanly possible - it's not. Knowing that, I'd rather the bias be towards America rather than against it.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. :)
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

clownboy said:
I'd agree with you there if that were at all humanly possible - it's not. Knowing that, I'd rather the bias be towards America rather than against it.
Click to expand...

It's cool if it swings to the pro-America side, but I think teaching subservience and blind obedience to the authority is quite dangerous. So we should be careful on how we swing to the pro-America side.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

americanwoman said:
This is not a local action, per the article it's a conservative movement in multiple parts of the country.
Click to expand...

Good for them...It's about time that Conservatives started fighting back in the Academic arena. Liberal Socialists can't control it forever.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

Ikari said:
It's cool if it swings to the pro-America side, but I think teaching subservience and blind obedience to the authority is quite dangerous. So we should be careful on how we swing to the pro-America side.
Click to expand...

I think people are smarter than that...You don't?
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

americanwoman said:
This is not a local action, per the article it's a conservative movement in multiple parts of the country.
Click to expand...

Again, that is NOT government action. And it doesn't concern the federal government. It's all local government.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

j-mac said:
So you think that there is some block to people getting the information about this country? We have at this time more information available to us than ever before in history, I don't think that some anti America message need be promoted in our schools.

Tell me what do you think is the purpose of focusing on the bad is for? I mean, typically in your history from what I know of you posting here, I wouldn't say that you are pro America in the sense that you tend to focus on what is wrong with this country more so than what you see positive...So, do you think that people walking around constantly believing that America is a country founded on atrocity, and ignoble means provides for a continued American greatness? Or is the goal to tear down this country a notch or two?
Click to expand...

America wasn't founded on atrocity though, our fundamental founding philosophies are quite open and tolerant. We didn't always apply them that way, but we set things up so that our system could evolve with us and allow the Republic to become more free over time. It's not to say, though, that we should just glance past or even ignore the wrong that we have done as a country. We've done some messed up things, and we need to acknowledge that so that we can better prepare for the future and make better decisions in the future.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

j-mac said:
I think people are smarter than that...You don't?
Click to expand...

I don't know. I'd like to think they are, but our aggregate population sometimes is taken very easily by the swindle.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

americanwoman said:
I'm with the students on this one. Complete bs on the part of that school board. No curriculum should be biased or censored, just straight facts.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

No self-respecting historian would inject nationalism (or other forms of personal bias) into their lectures.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

j-mac said:
Good for them...It's about time that Conservatives started fighting back in the Academic arena. Liberal Socialists can't control it forever.
Click to expand...

So if the conservative movement is to be patriotic, not question authority, and downplaying civil disobedience, I should not be seeing any more threads bitching about the current president or the ACA, right? ;)
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

Ikari said:
It's cool if it swings to the pro-America side, but I think teaching subservience and blind obedience to the authority is quite dangerous. So we should be careful on how we swing to the pro-America side.
Click to expand...

It's history class, not obedience training. Most kids are barely listening as it is, and those that want the negative side, well there are plenty of negative sources available to them.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

clownboy said:
Again, that is NOT government action. And it doesn't concern the federal government. It's all local government.
Click to expand...

Most historic civil disobediences of great impact have occured starting at the local level and ending at federal. Do you not think the actions of the federal trickle to the local and vice versa?
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

Geoist said:
Agreed.

No self-respecting historian would inject nationalism (or other forms of personal bias) into their lectures.
Click to expand...

You obviously haven't studied much history or known many historians.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

clownboy said:
It's history class, not obedience training. Most kids are barely listening as it is, and those that want the negative side, well there are plenty of negative sources available to them.
Click to expand...

And there are plenty of pro sources too. Schools have become "obedience" training in some light. The school systems shouldn't sugar coat anything, they should just provide the facts and the history. But claiming that they want to change educational standards to be more "Patriotic" and to "respect the authority" raises the ol' fascism warning flags. Ideally, history isn't presented in either pro or anti-America form; it should be presented as the facts.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

americanwoman said:
Most historic civil disobediences of great impact have occured starting at the local level and ending at federal. Do you not think the actions of the federal trickle to the local and vice versa?
Click to expand...

You're asking the wrong person. I don't think the federal should be involved at all here. This is a state and local decision.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

americanwoman said:
I'm with the students on this one. Complete bs on the part of that school board. No curriculum should be biased or censored, just straight facts.
Click to expand...

Yeah I agree.

Straight facts like how the USA lead NATO campaign helped liberate Dardania should be mentioned in history books. This bias towards other things seems to overshadow what may be more useful for USA history.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

clownboy said:
You obviously haven't studied much history or known many historians.
Click to expand...

I have a bachelors in history.

But it seems you are confusing what I said. I simply stated what should be, not what is.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

Ikari said:
And there are plenty of pro sources too. Schools have become "obedience" training in some light. The school systems shouldn't sugar coat anything, they should just provide the facts and the history. But claiming that they want to change educational standards to be more "Patriotic" and to "respect the authority" raises the ol' fascism warning flags. Ideally, history isn't presented in either pro or anti-America form; it should be presented as the facts.
Click to expand...

Think back to your HS history classes. Did the teacher just stand there in a monotone droning out fact after fact? History is not written that way, and it's not presented that way either.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

americanwoman said:
So if the conservative movement is to be patriotic, not question authority, and downplaying civil disobedience, I should not be seeing any more threads bitching about the current president or the ACA, right? ;)
Click to expand...

You're taking one aspect, (that I agree is troublesome) and twisting the whole thing...Trying to squelch opposition to Obama is a hallmark of the progressive liberal today...Congrats...You're post is highly typical.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

americanwoman said:
Would they have been rebels if they were being taught to just respect authority?
Click to expand...

I'm fairly certain the colonists WERE being taught to respect authority.

Let me ask you this, are you for a "small" government? If yes, how do you think you are going to be able to achieve that without a fight? Because that ship has long sailed away. If you are for a large government, then I can see where you would applaud the efforts to downplay civil disobedience.
Click to expand...

I am a "small government" person. My plan of action in achieving this is by teaching kids the value of individual liberty and free market capitalism and letting nature take its course. They will see that big government is anathema to liberty and that government can only grow over liberty. It doesn't require a rebellion.

Which is why I really don't get why conservatives have this platform of small government yet want to write history books that teach the opposite of that happening. Maybe as a conservative you can help me understand?
Click to expand...

"Small Government" is a colloquialism for limited federal government. A Colorado school board is not the target of "small government" conservatives. States and local school boards can write whatever curriculum they want without running afoul of "small government" conservatives. And when a "small government" conservative objects to the actions of a state or local policy, they will seek state or local redress rather than a federal law prohibiting the state or local action. There are, however, "big government" cultural conservatives who seek federal redress to local issues, but they aren't small government conservatives (even if they say so come election time).

So, "small government" conservatives support a federalist form of government with the federal government having a limited number of specific duties (maintaining an army, defending the borders) with the bulk of government charges falling on the states to administer as they individually see fit.

In short, think of "small government" conservatism as applying anti-monopoly sensibilities to national governance.
 
Last edited:
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

clownboy said:
Think back to your HS history classes. Did the teacher just stand there in a monotone droning out fact after fact? History is not written that way, and it's not presented that way either.
Click to expand...

History is facts, it's a recording of what happened...those are measured systems. Speaking factually doesn't have to be done in a boring mannerism.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

Ikari said:
And there are plenty of pro sources too. Schools have become "obedience" training in some light. The school systems shouldn't sugar coat anything, they should just provide the facts and the history. But claiming that they want to change educational standards to be more "Patriotic" and to "respect the authority" raises the ol' fascism warning flags. Ideally, history isn't presented in either pro or anti-America form; it should be presented as the facts.
Click to expand...

Should anyone in any country be "proud of their country" as a concept?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom