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US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria[W:354]

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

US Conservative said:
Excellent piece on life under ISIS...
The Islamic State: On the ground in Iraq - CBS News
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I saw it, gives you some idea of life under ISIL.
We've all heard it -taxes - looting antiquities ( the ones they don't blow up or destroy)-ransom-oil-I do believe they have a finance minister.
They bring in 6 million a month I heard?

This is going to be tough, since they are now melting into the cities,and camouflage targets . Moving out of obvious offices/places into peoples homes.

They are becoming tougher to separate out from the populace . It's going to take real ground troops to engage them
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

How hard could it be to track the trucks that pick-up and transport the stolen oil and trace it to the buyers? That's part of ISIS bankroll.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Hamster Buddha said:
So, to summarize, yes, your cool with supporting ruthless dictators in the middle east who brutalize their own people. Incidentally, after seeing what Arabs do with democracy, I'm sort of inclined to agree. But I do think it's important that we accept this reality, so that when inevitably, the next Shah of Iran scenario occurs, we're not caught blind-sighted.



Oh yeah, cause it's not like a democrat has never attacked Iraq... oh wait...
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To a certain extent I agree. But was Iran better off under the Shah or under the Ayatolá? The Shah was trying to modernize Iran and bring it into the 20th century which the fundamental Islamist hated. So we have an Iran of today instead of one that the Shah would have brought into the 21st Century. Sometimes it is better to live with what you have. At least the region was fairly stable under these despots. No terrorist training bases or camps and exporting of terrorism under either Qaddafi or Assad. That may not be much, but it was better than what is going on today.

Democracy is not for everyone in the world, some countries and people who never had it really do not know what to do with it. Was Maliki any better than Saddam, Maliki was elected, Saddam not? Perhaps it is a personal judgement call. Is the chaos and turmoil in Libya with different tribes and factions fighting each other and terrorist moving back into Libya better than it was under the strong arm of Qaddafi? I suppose one must make up his own mind on this, for the security of the United States, I would say not.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Has anyone considered the possibility that killing those ISIL members isn't really the target of Obama's actions at all...

What if the real target of these actions isn't anyone in the middle east?

What if the real target of these actions is the American People?

What if the objective is to so desensitize, demoralize, and outrage-fatigue the American people, that the outright use of blatant force that we all become numb to having any outrage or surprise at violence.

Then, when "We-the-People" just don't notice, care, or listen anymore... when we are simply burned out and apathetic... he subtly and slowly begins changing the list of targets.

-
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

US Conservative said:
SOFA's are indeed routine. Obama needed an out in Iraq, so he could have a line in the campaign. Nothing more.
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Yes, the US has over 80 SOFA agreements around the world and they are just a very simple matter with generally accepted terms everywhere.

Obama campaigned to end the war in Iraq and bring home the troops. Then he said that SOFA and Malik made him do it after he called Iraq stable and a great accomplishment and that Romney was a way behind the times, still fighting the Cold War. And of course Obama said he didn't want a SOFA anyway. Obama, Romney Clash Over Status of Forces Agreement in Iraq - YouTube

He has several excuses for his actions, most contradictory, and his followers believe all of them. This sort of ignorance is dangerous for any country, but especially for America and its citizens.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Perotista said:
Are things any better in Libya now that Qaddafi is gone? I think not. There is more killing and fighting between tribes and factions than before, only it is not on the news. We want to defeat ISIS, make nice with Assad. He has that ground force we need to be successful. It is that simple.
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dueling prime ministers/parliaments, rump gov't in Tobruk (since Tripoli is lawless militias run wild) mysterious airstrikes ( by other arabs?) kidnappings, a wave of assassinations the other day in Bengazi
It's a slow motion civil war.
Libya, Neighbor Nations Snub Military Intervention - ABC News
Libya currently has two rival parliaments and governments. One is recently elected but based in Tobruk, where it moved after Islamist militias took control of both Tripoli and Libya's second-largest city, Benghazi. The previous Islamist-led parliament remains in Tripoli and is backed by the militias.
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U.S. officials have said some airstrikes were carried out by Egypt and the United Arab Emirates, reinforcing the perception that Libya has become a proxy battleground for larger regional struggles — with Turkey and Qatar backing the Islamist militias and Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the UAE supporting their opponents
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everybody forgets Obama mentioned "North Africa" in his speech about bombing ISIL in Iraq. They shouldn't
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

pbrauer said:
Well, you're correct Nazism is not a serious threat at the present time, but it does still exist and in the future it could once again rear its ugly head.
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Many ideologies have raised their ugly heads and that would include Nazism, Racism, Fascism, Communism and now Islamism. The free world always has to respond to these threats to humanity though, oddly enough, they are often supported by people who live in the free world..
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

ecofarm said:
If we were under the same kind of threat, we would. But times have changed. The idea now is to depose tyrants and foster democracy; that costs a lot less blood and treasure.
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And has proven to be a lot less successful.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Grant said:
He has several excuses for his actions, most contradictory, and his followers believe all of them. This sort of ignorance is dangerous for any country, but especially for America and its citizens.
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Amen. With sheep they can do as they like, the anything-but-adversarial media only helps.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Peter Grimm said:
Of all the terrorist/fundamentalist/radical attacks in the history of the middle east, from your memory, how many of them have been against the oil fields? In any country.

I can't think of a single one from memory.
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Are we on the "It's all about oil" thing already?
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Grant said:
And has proven to be a lot less successful.
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Free Iraq is fighting against genocide. That's success.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

iguanaman said:
It is pretty hard to win any battles with your army hunkered down in schools and hospitals. We are stopping their advances first, then their supply lines and money supply.
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Are you sure about that ?

And didn't the Gulf War start with air stikes ? Yep, sure did.

Then " boots on the ground ".
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Grant said:
Are we on the "It's all about oil" thing already?
Click to expand...

You think we're there for human rights?

Of course, you're right. That's why we intervened in Rwanda. Oh wait..... No, but that's why we jumped right in to Darfur. No, darn. Wait..... Hey we're so concerned about beheadings, that's why we're sending troops to Mexico to fight the drug cartels..... ahh dammit. We aren't.

Yeah, maybe it's about the oil a little bit. Just maybe.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Fenton said:
Are you sure about that ?

And didn't the Gulf War start with air stikes ? Yep, sure did.

Then " boots on the ground ".
Click to expand...

We already have boots on the ground. Just not American boots.
 
stonewall50 said:
How? Are you arguing our inaction is genocide? How is it our responsibility to stop it? Additionally...how do you stop it?
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Genocide is being committed, whether it's "our business" or not. How does one stop it? By eliminating the terrorists' means of destruction and empowering the people.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

ecofarm said:
Free Iraq is fighting against genocide. That's success.
Click to expand...
It was a success, that's true. The genocide stopped and democracy was introduced, but that hard won democracy was not protected, and that could have been easily done. You said "The idea now is to depose tyrants and foster democracy; that costs a lot less blood and treasure". That established democracy in Iraq was abandoned for the crassest political reasons, and now millions will suffer..
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Kurmugeon said:
Has anyone considered the possibility that killing those ISIL members isn't really the target of Obama's actions at all...

What if the real target of these actions isn't anyone in the middle east?

What if the real target of these actions is the American People?

What if the objective is to so desensitize, demoralize, and outrage-fatigue the American people, that the outright use of blatant force that we all become numb to having any outrage or surprise at violence.

Then, when "We-the-People" just don't notice, care, or listen anymore... when we are simply burned out and apathetic... he subtly and slowly begins changing the list of targets.

-
Click to expand...

"If tyranny and oppression are to come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy."
-James Madison
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Peter Grimm said:
We already have boots on the ground. Just not American boots.
Click to expand...

Uhm, there's about 1,400 to 1,600 boots on the ground in Iraq that are armed and most are special forces...
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

annata said:
dueling prime ministers/parliaments, rump gov't in Tobruk (since Tripoli is lawless militias run wild) mysterious airstrikes ( by other arabs?) kidnappings, a wave of assassinations the other day in Bengazi
It's a slow motion civil war.
Libya, Neighbor Nations Snub Military Intervention - ABC News




everybody forgets Obama mentioned "North Africa" in his speech about bombing ISIL in Iraq. They shouldn't
Click to expand...

Thank You for the link. That tends to explain it all that everyone...well almost everyone has forgotten. Most think Libya is the land of peace and tranquility since Qaddafi is gone. That is far from the truth.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Peter Grimm said:
You think we're there for human rights?

Of course, you're right. That's why we intervened in Rwanda. Oh wait..... No, but that's why we jumped right in to Darfur. No, darn. Wait..... Hey we're so concerned about beheadings, that's why we're sending troops to Mexico to fight the drug cartels..... ahh dammit. We aren't.
Click to expand...

One must do everything all the time and it be perfect to have good intentions. Very rational argument there :roll:
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Grant said:
It was a success, that's true. The genocide stopped and democracy was introduced, but that hard won democracy was not protected, and that could have been easily done. You said "The idea now is to depose tyrants and foster democracy; that costs a lot less blood and treasure". That established democracy in Iraq was abandoned for the crassest political reasons, and now millions will suffer..
Click to expand...

I agree; nonetheless, actions against ISIS are just.
 
ecofarm said:
Genocide is being committed, whether it's "our business" or not.
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Would you prefer a "manufacturer in America" sticker on the genocide? Because that is the only change that will come with our involvement. I don't like being Machiavellian with the whole thing...but the fact is our involvement doesn't stop genocide.

How does one stop it? By eliminating the terrorists' means of destruction and empowering the people.
Click to expand...

So installing a pro western regime? Has that ever worked? Cold War?
 
stonewall50 said:
So installing a pro western regime? Has that ever worked? Cold War?
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Helping to install a pro-democracy and human rights government. That's different than what you're proposing. It worked in Japan and it's working in Somalia, Iraq and other countries.
 
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