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Turkish hostages held by IS in Iraq released

Ahlevah

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Dozens of hostages seized by Islamic State (IS) from the Turkish consulate in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul have been freed and are back in Turkey.The 49 were greeted by flag-waving crowds in Ankara after arriving in southern Turkey early on Saturday.
Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said Turkey's intelligence agency had led the operation, but gave few details.

BBC News - Turkish hostages held by IS in Iraq released

I'm curious to know that those "details" were.
 
I'm curious to know that those "details" were.

Turkey refuses to engage with their "allies" such as the US, and is rewarded for their deference to these pigs known as ISIS.
 
Turkey refuses to engage with their "allies" such as the US, and is rewarded for their deference to these pigs known as ISIS.

Each country must do what they perceive is in their national interest. One has to admit the United States hasn't really been out front in dealing with ISIS. Out front enough to get others to follow that is. These tit for tat air strikes may help keep the situation stalemated for the time being in Iraq, but they certainly won't roll back ISIS.

There is a big difference between leading with a belly flop into the pool, everyone then knows your serious. Now dipping one's toes into the pool will leave a bunch of potential allies wonders if you are serious.
 
Turkey refuses to engage with their "allies" such as the US, and is rewarded for their deference to these pigs known as ISIS.

And this really pisses me off:

A nurse who works at a private hospital in Mersin, a city and province on the Mediterranean coast of Turkey, has told Turkish authorities and Parliament that she is sick and tired of treating members of the terrorist organization the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), which now calls itself the "Islamic State."
The nurse, who was identified only by her initials, E.G., in a news story published by the Taraf daily on Wednesday, said of ISIL militants: “We treat them, and they go on to decapitate people. I am sick of treating wounded ISIL militants.” E.G. has also written a letter to Parliament and the National Police Department, saying she and her colleagues are extremely disturbed by the fact that they have to treat people “who chop off heads.”

Nurse says she's tired of treating ISIL terrorists

I mean, it's one thing to decline to aid us, but to permit these guys to be hospitalized on Turkish soil is ridiculous. Obama said they'd have no sanctuary anywhere on the planet. Yeah, right.
 
Each country must do what they perceive is in their national interest. One has to admit the United States hasn't really been out front in dealing with ISIS. Out front enough to get others to follow that is. These tit for tat air strikes may help keep the situation stalemated for the time being in Iraq, but they certainly won't roll back ISIS.

There is a big difference between leading with a belly flop into the pool, everyone then knows your serious. Now dipping one's toes into the pool will leave a bunch of potential allies wonders if you are serious.

There's no belly flop coming, or ever even contemplated...This has always been a misguided plan of containment, and a poor one at that.
 
And this really pisses me off:



I mean, it's one thing to decline to aid us, but to permit these guys to be hospitalized on Turkish soil is ridiculous. Obama said they'd have no sanctuary anywhere on the planet. Yeah, right.

NATO should reconsider Turkey's membership...They can't be counted on.
 
There's no belly flop coming, or ever even contemplated...This has always been a misguided plan of containment, and a poor one at that.

I am sure Turkey sees it the same way. Now they are willing to ship arms to the Syrian Rebels and help in their training. But even so, I am sure Turkey weighed the risks vs. the potential reward and decided to stay out of the ISIS mess
 
I am sure Turkey sees it the same way. Now they are willing to ship arms to the Syrian Rebels and help in their training. But even so, I am sure Turkey weighed the risks vs. the potential reward and decided to stay out of the ISIS mess

Turkey is shifting:

"Turkey is feeling its Muslim identity more and more. The trend worries secular Turkish politicians, who believe the state’s central tenet is under threat. In late October, a senior officer of Turkey’s army — which ousted a government it saw as overly Islamic in 1997 — issued a rare warning to that effect.

Others say the threat is overstated, but acknowledge that Turks do feel pushed eastward by pressures on their country from America and Europe. A poll by the Pew Foundation in June found that 53 percent of Turks have positive views of Iran, while public opinion of Europe and the United States has slipped sharply.

“Many people in Turkey have lost hopes in joining Europe and they are looking for other horizons,” said Onur Oymen, an opposition politician whose party is staunchly secular."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/28/world/europe/28turkey.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

As such, even if we don't see ourselves "at war" with radical Islam, they certainly see themselves "at war" with ANYONE not adhering to the strict tenants of Islam, and the Koran. If Turkey sides with them in this, then we can no longer consider them a reliable ally.
 
Turkey is shifting:

"Turkey is feeling its Muslim identity more and more. The trend worries secular Turkish politicians, who believe the state’s central tenet is under threat. In late October, a senior officer of Turkey’s army — which ousted a government it saw as overly Islamic in 1997 — issued a rare warning to that effect.

Others say the threat is overstated, but acknowledge that Turks do feel pushed eastward by pressures on their country from America and Europe. A poll by the Pew Foundation in June found that 53 percent of Turks have positive views of Iran, while public opinion of Europe and the United States has slipped sharply.

“Many people in Turkey have lost hopes in joining Europe and they are looking for other horizons,” said Onur Oymen, an opposition politician whose party is staunchly secular."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/28/world/europe/28turkey.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

As such, even if we don't see ourselves "at war" with radical Islam, they certainly see themselves "at war" with ANYONE not adhering to the strict tenants of Islam, and the Koran. If Turkey sides with them in this, then we can no longer consider them a reliable ally.

I have said all along, the middle east is not the area of my expertise. Let's say I am just a casual observer. I can understand them being upset by not being considered part of Europe. But they really never was, Europe ends at Istanbul and the middle east begins. Now I do not know what can be done about that. Perhaps it all goes back to the Ottoman's, Muslim vs. Europe, Christian.

The Turks are not Arab and neither is Iran. But they do have the same religion and perhaps the slight from Europe and probably the Arabs may be bringing Iran and Turkey closer together. Who knows. But anything I say is pure speculation. But as for ISIS, it is understandable if any nation choose not to follow us when they see that we are only going in half way and really no commitment to make sure the job gets finished. The only real commitment it seems when it comes to ISIS is no boots on the ground. So perhaps the big question is, what will our half commitment accomplish? Is half a commitment good enough to get others to go along. Some have, but with a half commitment one shouldn't expect everyone to just jump into the pool.

I am not sure we even know what we want to accomplish when it comes to ISIS.
 
Each country must do what they perceive is in their national interest. One has to admit the United States hasn't really been out front in dealing with ISIS. Out front enough to get others to follow that is. These tit for tat air strikes may help keep the situation stalemated for the time being in Iraq, but they certainly won't roll back ISIS.

There is a big difference between leading with a belly flop into the pool, everyone then knows your serious. Now dipping one's toes into the pool will leave a bunch of potential allies wonders if you are serious.


My guess is those of you that think the air strikes are minor wouldn't think so when the 500 pounders start falling on or near your position. Having loaded and armed fighter jets I wouldn't want to be within a mile of that ordinance. The ol' man that called in air strikes to the perimeter of his Special Forces camps in Vietnam says he had to hold on to something they make the ground shake so much. Both of my parents have experienced bombs and mortars and say there is nothing to compare it to. My mother experienced it in WWII as a little girl. Even had an allied fighter pilot strafe her as she ran with her mother.
 
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I have said all along, the middle east is not the area of my expertise. Let's say I am just a casual observer. I can understand them being upset by not being considered part of Europe. But they really never was, Europe ends at Istanbul and the middle east begins. Now I do not know what can be done about that. Perhaps it all goes back to the Ottoman's, Muslim vs. Europe, Christian.

The Turks are not Arab and neither is Iran. But they do have the same religion and perhaps the slight from Europe and probably the Arabs may be bringing Iran and Turkey closer together. Who knows. But anything I say is pure speculation. But as for ISIS, it is understandable if any nation choose not to follow us when they see that we are only going in half way and really no commitment to make sure the job gets finished. The only real commitment it seems when it comes to ISIS is no boots on the ground. So perhaps the big question is, what will our half commitment accomplish? Is half a commitment good enough to get others to go along. Some have, but with a half commitment one shouldn't expect everyone to just jump into the pool.

I am not sure we even know what we want to accomplish when it comes to ISIS.

You make some good points concerning this administrations goals with ISIS, or lack thereof, but the point I think I am trying to make is how Turkey has for some time now been leaning more toward Islam in this overall fight against the radicals....If Turkey is making a decision to join more on the side of the ME, let them have it, and not be a member of NATO any longer. They can't have it both ways.
 
My guess is those of you that think the air strikes are minor wouldn't think so when the 500 pounders start falling on or near your position. Having loaded and armed fighter jets I wouldn't want to be within a mile of that ordinance. The ol' man that called in air strikes to the perimeter of his Special Forces camps in Vietnam says he had to hold on to something they make the ground shake so much. Both of my parents have experienced bombs and mortars and say there is nothing to compare it to. My mother experienced it in WWII as a little girl. Even had an allied fighter pilot strafe her as she ran with her mother.


So far, the military experts all say that airstrikes alone will not get the job done.
 
My guess is those of you that think the air strikes are minor wouldn't think so when the 500 pounders start falling on or near your position. Having loaded and armed fighter jets I wouldn't want to be within a mile of that ordinance. The ol' man that called in air strikes to the perimeter of his Special Forces camps in Vietnam says he had to hold on to something they make the ground shake so much. Both of my parents have experienced bombs and mortars and say there is nothing to compare it to. My mother experienced it in WWII as a little girl. Even had an allied fighter pilot strafe her as she ran with her mother.

I haven't said anything about 500 pound bombs, being minor or major or in-between. I don't know where you got that from. I will say this, if the strategy of air strikes along with having indigenous troops on the ground do all the fighting, it can work. That is if you have competent indigenous troops. It has been proven in the past, first in Laos and second in Afghanistan. In Laos we had the Royal Lao Army, not very good bordering on incompetent, then the mountain tribes such as the Hmong, Karen, Kha, etc which were very good. Our Air power and those troops battled the NVA and PL to a stalemate. In Afghanistan, the Northern Alliance troops on the ground and our air power drove out the Taliban. Granted we had some SF and paramilitary on the ground with the Northern Alliance. Now I am not talking nation building here, just the initial war before that nation building stuff started.

The problem today with ISIS is we have no competent indigenous troops. We also do not have advisers with the native troops which probably should be down to at least Battalion level.
 
You make some good points concerning this administrations goals with ISIS, or lack thereof, but the point I think I am trying to make is how Turkey has for some time now been leaning more toward Islam in this overall fight against the radicals....If Turkey is making a decision to join more on the side of the ME, let them have it, and not be a member of NATO any longer. They can't have it both ways.

I understand and agree that either Turkey remain loyal to NATO or go. But sitting out one operation, ISIS does not mean Turkey is disloyal to NATO or America. As I stated they are doing their share as for arming the Syrian Rebels and training them. However many countries are in NATO now, how many are now on board to participate against ISIS militarily? I do not know, but I would be surprised if the total comes to half.

But if Turkey chooses to switch loyalty to the ME and other Muslim countries instead of NATO, sure it is time for them to go.
 
I am sure Turkey sees it the same way. Now they are willing to ship arms to the Syrian Rebels and help in their training. But even so, I am sure Turkey weighed the risks vs. the potential reward and decided to stay out of the ISIS mess

Turkey has a problem with native Kurds and the enemy of your enemy is your friend. It is that simple I'm afraid.
 
Turkey has a problem with native Kurds and the enemy of your enemy is your friend. It is that simple I'm afraid.

Could be. Like most I like to read a heck of a lot more into things than which really might be there. It is good to remember the KISS principal.
 
So far, the military experts all say that airstrikes alone will not get the job done.

They always say that.

It worked in the former Yugoslavia didn't it? I seem to remember we didn't have boots on the ground and lost not one soldier.

And do you recall the Iraqi troops begging to surrender during Desert Storm after being pummeled in their bunkers?
 
I haven't said anything about 500 pound bombs, being minor or major or in-between. I don't know where you got that from. I will say this, if the strategy of air strikes along with having indigenous troops on the ground do all the fighting, it can work. That is if you have competent indigenous troops. It has been proven in the past, first in Laos and second in Afghanistan. In Laos we had the Royal Lao Army, not very good bordering on incompetent, then the mountain tribes such as the Hmong, Karen, Kha, etc which were very good. Our Air power and those troops battled the NVA and PL to a stalemate. In Afghanistan, the Northern Alliance troops on the ground and our air power drove out the Taliban. Granted we had some SF and paramilitary on the ground with the Northern Alliance. Now I am not talking nation building here, just the initial war before that nation building stuff started.

The problem today with ISIS is we have no competent indigenous troops. We also do not have advisers with the native troops which probably should be down to at least Battalion level.

No mention of 500 pounders? That's the meat and potatoes of air strikes! If you ever see pics of ground crews loading aircraft that's mostly what you will see.

You need to be patient grasshoppa. We can't do this overnight.

Seriously we don't have any advisors with the native troops? You really believe that?

My dad trained batalions of Khmer Rouge in Cambodia on his second deployment during Vietnam. Of course we were never there. LOL
 
They always say that.

It worked in the former Yugoslavia didn't it? I seem to remember we didn't have boots on the ground and lost not one soldier.

And do you recall the Iraqi troops begging to surrender during Desert Storm after being pummeled in their bunkers?

So, two weeks ago (that is metaphorically speaking, I am not sure when he said it), Obama said that the FSA was compiled of Doctors, and Pharmacists, and all of the sudden they are capable of taking the fight to ISIS? What changed?
 
No mention of 500 pounders? That's the meat and potatoes of air strikes! If you ever see pics of ground crews loading aircraft that's mostly what you will see.

You need to be patient grasshoppa. We can't do this overnight.

Seriously we don't have any advisors with the native troops? You really believe that?

My dad trained batalions of Khmer Rouge in Cambodia on his second deployment during Vietnam. Of course we were never there. LOL

Oh, The Khmer Rouge were the bad guys, Pol Pot, the commies etc. The Killing Fields. I suspect you mean Lon Nol and your dad was probably with MEDT-C.
 
Oh, The Khmer Rouge were the bad guys, Pol Pot, the commies etc. The Killing Fields. I suspect you mean Lon Nol and your dad was probably with MEDT-C.

Oh yeah they were the bad guys later on but we trained and armed them to attack the NVA that were using Cambodia as a staging grounds into South Vietnam. My dad says they were so young and small their guns dragged in the mud behind them. When you train young boys to be killers, Pol Pot and the Killing Fields is what you reap.

Not sure you will find much but my dad was Special Forces CCN while in Cambodia.
 
Oh yeah they were the bad guys later on but we trained and armed them to attack the NVA that were using Cambodia as a staging grounds into South Vietnam. My dad says they were so young and small their guns dragged in the mud behind them. When you train young boys to be killers, Pol Pot and the Killing Fields is what you reap.

Not sure you will find much but my dad was Special Forces CCN while in Cambodia.

I find that strange. We backed Lon Nol in Cambodia after he over threw Prince Norodom Sihanouk either in 1969 or early 1970. We then brought up MEDT-C, first headquartered in Saigon and then in Phnom Penh itself to assist Lon Nol in his fight against the KR or Khmer Rouge which were the commie bad guys. MEDT-C as active in Cambodia until April of 1975 when Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge finally captured Phnom Penh.

As for CCN and what they did in Cambodia, I am really not familiar with that. For my first 4 years in Southeast Asia was with JUSMAGTHAI and then with Project 404 in Laos, May of 1967 thru May of 1971. I had nothing to do with Vietnam. Thailand and Laos were my areas of operation. My time in Vietnam was from May of 1971 to March of 1973 at which time I went back to JUSMAGTHAI until July of 1976.
 
They always say that.

It worked in the former Yugoslavia didn't it? I seem to remember we didn't have boots on the ground and lost not one soldier.

And do you recall the Iraqi troops begging to surrender during Desert Storm after being pummeled in their bunkers?

Do you recall the infantry mopping up?

The point being, you can't win a war with air alone.
 
Oh yeah they were the bad guys later on but we trained and armed them to attack the NVA that were using Cambodia as a staging grounds into South Vietnam. My dad says they were so young and small their guns dragged in the mud behind them. When you train young boys to be killers, Pol Pot and the Killing Fields is what you reap.

Not sure you will find much but my dad was Special Forces CCN while in Cambodia.

The Khmer Rouge was allied with the North Vietnamese. We never worked with the Khmer Rouge.
 
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