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White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install sol

Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

oil coal and gas are already used,the three green energies would be used to reduce the primary sources of energy.

but at this time your right,they cant run anything by themselves hardly.like i said with solar,alot of those using it are people with small cabins,those people find a 4k system with a battery bank cheaper than running power lines to the middle of nowhere.but even those people still have gas or diesel generators as a few cloudy days could kill their power.


palm springs cali got it right,they use windmills,and gas generators,when the windmills fail to generate enough power,the gas generators pick up the slack.

and yes storage is a major problem,with a small house deep cycle batteries could be used with no problems,but for lets say a city,there is no efficient way to store that much power,and i cant see a cities power plant stocking 20 million deep cycle batteries either.

Well, the substations already do on that last. Really, we're still using the same tech we developed a couple thousand years ago for storage. We've barely improved on it. And transmission is a nightmare. 47% loss in transmission.
 
Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

the only problem is solar panels when concentrated create extreme amounts of heat,which is bad for wildlife,so they would need to be spaced out.another problem is cost to benefit,solar is more feasable when powering small buildins cheaply,but costs rise quickly with larger buildings,hence why most people who adopt them live in small houses and cabins.

another issue is sunlight,much of the country doesnt have enough constant sunlight to make solar panels efficient.

but at this time your right,they cant run anything by themselves hardly.
Boy, that is some dumb **** right there.

First, solar panels do not heat up enough to harm wildlife. That's wingnut talk right there. They're usually put on roofs which are......wait for it.....usually black. Matte black, so they heat up more than the solar panels which are blue or black AND SHINY!!! (Hint: "shiny" means "reflective")

And costs don't rise for a large building. Costs rise for power usage. The reason why solar is more common in low-rise building is because the roof to power usage ratio is much higher.

And most of the country does get enough sunlight to make them feasible. The problem is the low cost of coal generated power, which makes solar expensive in comparison.

Finally, there's nothing that can be powered by conventional sources of electicity that can't be powered by electricity generated by solar. There's nothing different about the electricity generated by a solar system. It's the same electricity
 
Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

So do I. One reason is that this is now a matter of national security.

A few years ago I spent a couple of memorable hours in my office with Bill Forstchen, the author of One Second After, and I try not to think about the potential consequences of an EMP, natural or an attack--the end of the world as we know it.

Greetings, nota bene. :2wave:

That was one of the scariest books I have ever read, in terms of possibility of occurrence! Experts have been warning about this for a long time because of general grid aging - now we get to add terrorists to that list! With all the unemployed we have, why isn't there a nationwide program to fix it, by putting them to work? The grid isn't an optional thing - we all depend on it! Instead we send money to countries who hate us. We'd better buy horses, or bikes that we pedal, if we intend to go anywhere, because without electricity gas stations won't be working - as the Great Blackout of 2003 showed us. And that was only for one day! What's it going to be like if it takes weeks or months to repair things? :shock:
 
Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

You know, I find it very interesting that the people who scream the loudest about how bad the country needs jobs are also the same people who complain when any initiative is fostered to spur job growth.

I get that such people don't like unions, but unless other industries are willing to move forward with initiatives to create new jobs especially where opening up new industries is concerned, I don't have a problem with the government taking the lead in partnership with unions to train our veterans in growth industries at good pay.
By itself that's a fair point, but it is also a fair question to ask where the demand is for so many trained installers. Ok, so we train all these people to install solar panel... then what? Unless the government is going to purchase and supply solar panels to random people, who will be paying for them and where will they be installed?
 
Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

Meanwhile, nuclear energy is still being stonewalled and the Keystone Pipeline is waiting to be built.
 
Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

i support most upgrades to the electrical grid, public or private.

Well, I support common sense, cost effective upgrades to the grid, not upgrades for political purposes.
 
Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

By itself that's a fair point, but it is also a fair question to ask where the demand is for so many trained installers. Ok, so we train all these people to install solar panel... then what? Unless the government is going to purchase and supply solar panels to random people, who will be paying for them and where will they be installed?

I agree with you there. That's why I think our housing/construction industry needs to look at including solar panels as an energy efficiency option in new home construction. Or you could take the broader approach and make them a standard household construction items similar to bath tubs, toilets, hot water tanks and furnaces. If an option, the home buyer could choose what size solar panel he/she want to have installed. If standard, I'd assume some kind of energy efficiency rate would have to be developed for the size of the home (i.e., 2, 3, 4 bedroom or by square footage) and offer standard sizes for each.

The way I see it neither BIG oil or the coal industries will ever willingly give up their market share if they can help it. The whaling industry fought tooth and nail not to allow another form of heating oil to enter their market. Same holds true with the oil industry (for private transportation) and coal (for electricity). The solar panel industry is just going to have to get smarter on how they sell themselves to the general public as a cost effective energy alternative for residential and commercial property. I can accept the government playing a role in that marketing plan in solar energy's infancy. But once they become big boys those tax subsidies will have to go.
 
Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

Meanwhile, nuclear energy is still being stonewalled and the Keystone Pipeline is waiting to be built.

We still haven't found a cost effective means to dispose of nuclear waste. Heck, we still haven't fully adopted measures to recycle it on-site. As to the Keystone XL Pipeline, I'm still 50/50 about it for two reasons:

1) Number of jobs it claims to create.

2) Amount of revenue the U.S. would receive.

I think much of the environmental issues have been resolved although that still concerns me given the low water levels in the surrounding areas, but the two issues listed above are now the biggest hurtles. I just don't see the long-term benefit from this project when we already have other alternatives that are "Made in America".
 
Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

I agree with you there. That's why I think our housing/construction industry needs to look at including solar panels as an energy efficiency option in new home construction. Or you could take the broader approach and make them a standard household construction items similar to bath tubs, toilets, hot water tanks and furnaces. If an option, the home buyer could choose what size solar panel he/she want to have installed. If standard, I'd assume some kind of energy efficiency rate would have to be developed for the size of the home (i.e., 2, 3, 4 bedroom or by square footage) and offer standard sizes for each.
This goes against my normal mindset, but if we had made solar mandatory for all new residential and commercial rooftops back during the 1973 energy crises, we would be so far ahead of the game today.


The way I see it neither BIG oil or the coal industries will ever willingly give up their market share if they can help it. The whaling industry fought tooth and nail not to allow another form of heating oil to enter their market. Same holds true with the oil industry (for private transportation) and coal (for electricity). The solar panel industry is just going to have to get smarter on how they sell themselves to the general public as a cost effective energy alternative for residential and commercial property. I can accept the government playing a role in that marketing plan in solar energy's infancy. But once they become big boys those tax subsidies will have to go.
I have never understood why the oil and coal companies don't buy the solar companies and develop it themselves... and make all the money from that, as well.
 
Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

This goes against my normal mindset, but if we had made solar mandatory for all new residential and commercial rooftops back during the 1973 energy crises, we would be so far ahead of the game today.



I have never understood why the oil and coal companies don't buy the solar companies and develop it themselves... and make all the money from that, as well.


Because its not a viable technology.

Not now or in 1973.

And the sheer amount of solar panel acreage needed to provide enough electricity for ONE office building with TODAY'S Technology makes solar not only a very expensive " solution " but a impractical solution.
 
Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

Because its not a viable technology.

Not now or in 1973.

And the sheer amount of solar panel acreage needed to provide enough electricity for ONE office building with TODAY'S Technology makes solar not only a very expensive " solution " but a impractical solution.

But not so much for residential homes even as a hybrid energy source. You could spin that off easily enough even if all the solar panel powers are used for it to power your hot water tank and/or your electric dryer. Of course, that makes sense if you're using at least one of this appliances on a near 24/7 basis, but if we're talking residual energy then long-term storage measures (batteries) will have to be developed. Moreover, the major residential energy power players will have to decide on ways to compensate homeowners in terms of recycled energy back into the energy supply chain. Otherwise, the biggest benefit to the consumer is simply the lower cost of electricity to their home.
 
Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

But not so much for residential homes even as a hybrid energy source. You could spin that off easily enough even if all the solar panel powers are used for it to power your hot water tank and/or your electric dryer. Of course, that makes sense if you're using at least one of this appliances on a near 24/7 basis, but if we're talking residual energy then long-term storage measures (batteries) will have to be developed. Moreover, the major residential energy power players will have to decide on ways to compensate homeowners in terms of recycled energy back into the energy supply chain. Otherwise, the biggest benefit to the consumer is simply the lower cost of electricity to their home.

First, you have to pay for all that " free electricity " via the huge loan you just took out to have it installed

Typically financed over 15 year. Whole home systems guarantee a utility bill that NOW comes woth a interest rate.
 
Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

First, you have to pay for all that " free electricity " via the huge loan you just took out to have it installed

Typically financed over 15 year. Whole home systems guarantee a utility bill that NOW comes woth a interest rate.

Who said anything about electricity being free? I certainly did not nor did I imply it. As to financing the solar panel and the cost of installation, if you've financing a new home wouldn't it stand to reason that those costs would be wrapped into the home loan? I mean, if solar panels becomes an appliance that's part of standard home construction, the cost would be part of the overall construction costs. So, I really don't see your objection here. It'll be no different than paying for your A/C unit or your kitchen sink which are wrapped into your home loan.
 
Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

I was unaware that the 13th Amendment had been repealed. You should start a new thread on that one here in the Breaking News section of the forums. The return of slavery to the United States is quite the news item.

It IS quite the news item, and the media whores are not reporting on it. Do a Google search on the "prison industrial complex", and you will find that slavery is indeed back, albeit in a different form.
 
Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

the only problem is solar panels when concentrated create extreme amounts of heat,which is bad for wildlife,so they would need to be spaced out.another problem is cost to benefit,solar is more feasable when powering small buildins cheaply,but costs rise quickly with larger buildings,hence why most people who adopt them live in small houses and cabins.

another issue is sunlight,much of the country doesnt have enough constant sunlight to make solar panels efficient.

at the end of the day they should have focused on a combination of solar,wind,and hydro instead of putting all their eggs in one basket.

I disagree. Germany is the size of Texas, and they are using more than twice the amount of solar power than the entire US is using.
 
Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

Who said anything about electricity being free? I certainly did not nor did I imply it. As to financing the solar panel and the cost of installation, if you've financing a new home wouldn't it stand to reason that those costs would be wrapped into the home loan? I mean, if solar panels becomes an appliance that's part of standard home construction, the cost would be part of the overall construction costs. So, I really don't see your objection here. It'll be no different than paying for your A/C unit or your kitchen sink which are wrapped into your home loan.



Air conditioning and all of the other appliances that may be part of a new home all fall under that category of viable and tested technology.

Solar is NOT a viable technology. Minus the massive Government subsidies it wouldnt even be a consideration and it should be a consideration.
 
Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

I disagree. Germany is the size of Texas, and they are using more than twice the amount of solar power than the entire US is using.


Germany's Green energy revolution is a disaster

As admitted by their own Government who subsidizes their Green energy disaster with Billions in new taxes levied on average German citizens

Thanks to their idiotic head first dive into green energy Germany now burns more coal than it has since the Second World war AND their citizens pay 300 percent more for their electricity than the average American citizen does.

They have entire wind farms sitting iff their coast that have yet to be tied into their grid because they can't afford it.

Germany should be a lesson to every person out their thats giving green renewable energy a second thought as a viable and compable technology
 
Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

Air conditioning and all of the other appliances that may be part of a new home all fall under that category of viable and tested technology.

Solar is NOT a viable technology. Minus the massive Government subsidies it wouldnt even be a consideration and it should be a consideration.

You mean it's not a viable and tested technology in U.S. markets because it seems to be doing quite well in other parts of the world.

Look, if people keep on this argument track you may as well never try to test any other energy source as an alternative to oil or coal or try to make it viable in the U.S. marketplace. You have to start somewhere. Seems to me opponents to solar power work hard to convolute the issue: It's either an untested energy source in residential or commercial markets, a non-viable energy source in its application or multiple use across platforms or its heavily subsidized by the government. My guess is the only reason folks would work so hard to say something isn't worth the effort to try it is: a) they're afraid people will discover they like it, or; b) they hate the fact that somebody else is making it work.
 
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Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

Germany's Green energy revolution is a disaster

As admitted by their own Government who subsidizes their Green energy disaster with Billions in new taxes levied on average German citizens

Thanks to their idiotic head first dive into green energy Germany now burns more coal than it has since the Second World war AND their citizens pay 300 percent more for their electricity than the average American citizen does.

They have entire wind farms sitting iff their coast that have yet to be tied into their grid because they can't afford it.

Germany should be a lesson to every person out their thats giving green renewable energy a second thought as a viable and compable technology

That is an outright lie. Where did you get that information? And where is the link to the political think tank you obviously got your information from?

The fact is that Germany broke the 50% barrier just this June. That's right. On that day Germany generated more than 50% of it's power by solar alone. In addition, Germany is now also making moves in wind power, which was slow to take off, but appears in place to generate yet more power, since investors have finally become interested.
 
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Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

Boy, that is some dumb **** right there.

First, solar panels do not heat up enough to harm wildlife. That's wingnut talk right there. They're usually put on roofs which are......wait for it.....usually black. Matte black, so they heat up more than the solar panels which are blue or black AND SHINY!!! (Hint: "shiny" means "reflective")

And costs don't rise for a large building. Costs rise for power usage. The reason why solar is more common in low-rise building is because the roof to power usage ratio is much higher.

And most of the country does get enough sunlight to make them feasible. The problem is the low cost of coal generated power, which makes solar expensive in comparison.

Finally, there's nothing that can be powered by conventional sources of electicity that can't be powered by electricity generated by solar. There's nothing different about the electricity generated by a solar system. It's the same electricity

well first i wasnt talking about a few solar panels on a roof reflecting too much heat,im referring to massive solar farms,where that much light concentrated and reflected can be dangerous,whereas them spread out is not.


and yes costs do rise on large buildings,because larger buildings use alot more energy,because they need more lighting to cover the area,more ac btus to cool the larger area etc,while a small house can easily be powered almost entirely by a 4kw solar setup,a much larger building would require equally more solar panels,massively driving up cost of investment.further multistory buildings can not benefit as much from solar.


i dont know why you think most of the country gets enough light to make it feasable,unless its somewhere like the southwest where cloudy days are few,there would be heavy reliance on fuel generators through part of the year,and at night all year except maybe alaska:doh

further solar cannot be efficiently stored yet,meaning all extra power produced at day worthless come night,whereas individual houses can buy deep cycle batteries to store the energy for nighttime,there are no feasable options for an entire power grid.


and actually i am right,they cant hardly run anything by themselves,in nearly every solar setup,there is usually a generator or power plant that handles power inbetween.running something by itself would mean running it with solar,not running solar,then switching to another form of power,as is common sense solar panels dont work at night,and are less efficient on cloudy days.
 
Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

well first i wasnt talking about a few solar panels on a roof reflecting too much heat,im referring to massive solar farms,where that much light concentrated and reflected can be dangerous,whereas them spread out is not.

Solar panels do not concentrate light. And relecting the light back reduces temps. There is no danger to wildlife.

and yes costs do rise on large buildings,because larger buildings use alot more energy,because they need more lighting to cover the area,more ac btus to cool the larger area etc,while a small house can easily be powered almost entirely by a 4kw solar setup,a much larger building would require equally more solar panels,massively driving up cost of investment.further multistory buildings can not benefit as much from solar.

You're just repeating what I said.

BTW, there are apt building which are powered by solar.

i dont know why you think most of the country gets enough light to make it feasable,unless its somewhere like the southwest where cloudy days are few,there would be heavy reliance on fuel generators through part of the year,and at night all year except maybe alaska:doh

Of course you don't know why. It's obvious you are not familiar with the subject, but NYS has a 10 year pay back period on solar, and unless it's moved since the last time I checked, it's not in the SW, it's the NE.
further solar cannot be efficiently stored yet,meaning all extra power produced at day worthless come night,whereas individual houses can buy deep cycle batteries to store the energy for nighttime,there are no feasable options for an entire power grid.

Who's talking about the entire power grid. (answer: just about nobody) You certainly weren't talking about the entire grid. You said it wasn't possible to use for large buildings in most of the country

and actually i am right,they cant hardly run anything by themselves,in nearly every solar setup,there is usually a generator or power plant that handles power inbetween.running something by itself would mean running it with solar,not running solar,then switching to another form of power,as is common sense solar panels dont work at night,and are less efficient on cloudy days.

Wrong again. Most systems have enough batteries to store a few days power and solar generates enough power even on pretty cloudy days.
 
Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

Solar panels do not concentrate light. And relecting the light back reduces temps. There is no danger to wildlife.



You're just repeating what I said.

BTW, there are apt building which are powered by solar.



Of course you don't know why. It's obvious you are not familiar with the subject, but NYS has a 10 year pay back period on solar, and unless it's moved since the last time I checked, it's not in the SW, it's the NE.


Who's talking about the entire power grid. (answer: just about nobody) You certainly weren't talking about the entire grid. You said it wasn't possible to use for large buildings in most of the country



Wrong again. Most systems have enough batteries to store a few days power and solar generates enough power even on pretty cloudy days.

first,yes concentrated reflected light reflects heat upwards,which effects birds.many solar systems in large farms are half domes which create a different effect.


apt buildings powered by just solar?????so do they just not use anything electric after dark????


10 year payback wow im impressed,that means id have to invest a fortune that most people cant afford to break even in 10 years.heres a hint solar panels are getting cheaper by the day,why would you invest a mint on something that would cost vastly less a few years from now.


if your not using it for a power grid you are only subsidizing fossil fuel energy,and aat a hefty cost.and no i didnt say they cant,or atleast i dont ever remember saying they cant,its more they cant feasibly.they cost more due to a much larger size,and most business use vastly more energy than homes,meaning the investment would be in the hundreds of thousands to millions.



which systems have enough power to store days worth of energy other than home systems,name them.because if such a system existed,there wouldnt even be a debate over green energy or over loss of power.unless ofcourse you mean home systems using car batterries,which wouldnt work for a power grid.
 
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