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Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

TeleKat said:
Whatever, Vance. You're off in partisan hack loony land...so you go right on ahead. Apparently because I identify as a "leftist" that means I'll eagerly vote for a candidate that I absolutely despise, running on a party I absolutely despise, with a platform I absolutely despise because...you say so. :roll:

You and Mark Levin have alot in common. Because libertarians don't buy into the GOP bull****, we must be Democrats.

Oh and just an FYI, I've only voted for a Democratic candidate once in my entire life. So there goes your hackery right out the window.
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Im a registered libertarian, dont vote major party, and I GUARANTEE you...around August of 2016 you will be singing the womans praises and you WILL vote for her.
 
VanceMack said:
I GUARANTEE you...around August of 2016 you will be singing the womans praises and you WILL vote for her.
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Are you a broken record or something?

Im a registered libertarian, dont vote major party
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I GUARANTEE you...around August of 2016 you will be singing the GOP's praises and you WILL vote for them.

See? I can act like a stupid dimwitted hack too!
 
TeleKat said:
Are you a broken record or something?



I GUARANTEE you...around August of 2016 you will be singing the GOP's praises and you WILL vote for them.

See? I can act like a stupid dimwitted hack too!
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Theres that temper again. Easy now...

I GUARANTEE you...most libertarians wouldnt be tripping over themselves to support an avowed socialist and someone that promotes extensive government intrusion into their lives. Now...Im not the person to be defining what a 'real' libertarian is...but its pretty impressive how committed you are in defense of an extremist liberal socialist that is SO democrat he cant even call himself a democrat.

:lamo
 
Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016
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i'd probably vote for him. we've had so much trickle down nonsense over the past thirty years that a term or two of him would be a nice countersteer. also, he votes against war, voted against the patriot act, and supports single payer. sounds good to me.
 
Helix said:
i'd probably vote for him. we've had so much trickle down nonsense over the past thirty years that a term or two of him would be a nice countersteer. also, he votes against war, voted against the patriot act, and supports single payer. sounds good to me.
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While I don't agree with a lot of what he says, he's a good counterpoint to a lot of the nonsense that has been going on in Washington lately.

I'm not so sure I'd vote for him as president, but it's good we have a few like him in Congress, just to keep things stirred up.
 
VanceMack said:
Yes...it means he is a liberal hack that caucuses with the democrats, votes democrat, and is in every way shape and form a democrat...except he calls himself an 'independent'. :lamo

Hey...heres another funny one. John McCain called himself a 'maverick'!
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Anyone who pretends that Sanders isn't a sure vote for whatever the Democrats are putting up is merely kidding himself. Sanders is a socialist, and there aren't others in DC who are honest about being socialists. He has supported virtually everything the Democrats have put out there for him to consider. Howard Dean has sung his praises for years calling him an ally and praising the fact that he votes with the Democrats 98% of the time.

He can call himself whatever he likes, and put that "I" after his name, but for purposes of what he's done as a US Senator, he's a Democrat to the core. As I said to another poster, if this was Michelle Bachmann we were talking about, and she changed the "R" after her name to an "I", unless she stopped voting with the Rs on virtually every single issue, she'd still be a Republican.

Sanders is no Independent. He wants this country to be a socialist society. That isn't the same thing as him being a partisan Democrat while on the job.
 
If people think this (below) is political extremism, then they ought to check their own extremism at the opposite end of the spectrum.

bernie-sanders-walmart.jpg
 
VanceMack said:
I GUARANTEE you
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You really like the word "guarantee", don't you?

most libertarians wouldnt be tripping over themselves to support an avowed socialist
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Keyword: most. There are libertarian philosophies that are socialist and even communist in nature. And, from a historical perspective, libertarian socialist ideas were around long before libertarian capitalist ideas were around. Libertarian socialists are few and far between these days, and libertarian socialism isn't the most viable or realistic philosophy ever, but it exists nonetheless. The idea that libertarianism precludes socialism and left-wing economics is stupid and rather ignorant of libertarian history.

Libertarian socialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

someone that promotes extensive government intrusion into their lives
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He's a civil libertarian. He is vehemently against government surveillance, the patriot act, the NDAA, the war on drugs, and other blatant violations of our civil liberties. That's more than I can say for any other candidate running through one of the major parties (aside from Ron Paul of course). He is also for legalizing same-sex marriage, he is pro choice, and is more sane on immigration than the far-right Republican/Democrat types. I don't think he quite supports open borders, but I believe he is at least for amnesty and doesn't wish to put up a Gestapo-style fence along the border.

Im not the person to be defining what a 'real' libertarian is
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It shows.

but its pretty impressive how committed you are in defense of an extremist liberal
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Well at least he's actually ****ing liberal instead of the neocon/neoliberal hybrid currently going on in the Democratic Party. I don't agree with him on everything but his social/civil/foreign policy issues mirror or are at least damn close to that of libertarians. Some of his economic policies are also pretty appealing to left-wing libertarians such as myself, even if other parts of his economics are a little "out there."

Besides, I never said I'd trip over myself to vote for him. I merely said that if he won the nomination he would probably be the only chance of me ever voting Democratic. I said it was likely I would vote for him if he won the nomination, not definite, so don't get your conservative panties in a wad. It would be stupid for libertarians to not at least consider voting for him with a track record like his on war, civil liberties, anti-corporatism, social issues etc. It would be the first time in a while we've had someone decent running on one of the two major parties. The Democratic Party isn't leftist. It isn't liberal. It isn't progressive. That's why I tend to favor the Green and Libertarian Parties. They have the old liberal values that libertarians base, and always have based, their philosophy on.
 
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Montecresto said:
And that's such garbage to call Hartmann, or Sander's for that matter, enemies of the constitution. Americans are not enemies of the constitution, regardless of their political bias. There are differences in its interpretation and application regularly. As you describe it the Democratic Party is an enemy to the constitution, and though you and others here would probably agree that they are, it's a very ridiculous argument.
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Well, you are just fooling yourself if you don't think these guys would rewrite the Constitution in a heartbeat, if they could. The Constitution was built to limit government and protect our rights and liberties (along with the States), these guys are for big, all powerful government. They want judges that ignore the Constitution, and they certainly feel that the government should be redistributing wealth even more than it does now.
 
Fiddytree said:
Liberal? He's a democratic socialist.

No, Sanders wouldn't stand a chance in hell. Unlike Perot or Ralph Nader, the guy would pull far less support.
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I believe Sanders has said he would consider running as a Democrat.

He and Elizabeth Warren have to be an absolute nightmare for Hillary Clinton. She's undoubtedly going to cast herself as a middle class moderate from middle America and to have those two socialists pull her far to the left to get the Democrat nomination will almost certainly mean a Republican in 2016. This is basically the same issue Republicans have had with the Tea Party except if it's a choice between less government and socialism, independents and moderate Democrats too will vote for less government.
 
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Hard Truth said:
I don't consider Sander's views extreme.

I am annoyed that the mainstream media has annointed Clinton as the next candidate. I support Sanders running against her in the Democratic primary so that the public will be exposed to genuine liberal issues and perspectives, which are rarely heard in the mainstream media.

Unfortunately, the system is rigged so that any liberal third party candidate is only going to hurt the Democrat candidate, so I don't expect to support a run as a third party candidate if the race is close.
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I understand that someone could support Sander's views but I just don't understand how you would not consider those views extreme - unless you're just brushing off the extremism of those views because you support them. I mean, I suspect ISIS followers recognized that their own views are clearly out of step with the rest of the world even if they support those views.
 
Dittohead not! said:
While I don't agree with a lot of what he says, he's a good counterpoint to a lot of the nonsense that has been going on in Washington lately.

I'm not so sure I'd vote for him as president, but it's good we have a few like him in Congress, just to keep things stirred up.
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Counterpoint in what way? And what's he stirred up, besides opposition to Hillary Clinton?
 
Helix said:
i'd probably vote for him. we've had so much trickle down nonsense over the past thirty years that a term or two of him would be a nice countersteer. also, he votes against war, voted against the patriot act, and supports single payer. sounds good to me.
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I just have no clue how the thinking works that would lead to voting for people like Obama, Sanders, and the like. I mean, how do you even get past the tremendous debt, $$$ Trillions that we can't afford now, and you are thinking it would be good to vote for someone that would continue on that path, only worse?

Forget the politics, the financials don't work at all. You have to know you would be voting for a terrible outcome down the road.
 
shavingcollywob said:
I believe Sanders has said he would consider running as a Democrat.

He and Elizabeth Warren have to be an absolute nightmare for Hillary Clinton. She's undoubtedly going to cast herself as a middle class moderate from middle America and to have those two socialists pull her far to the left to get the Democrat nomination will almost certainly mean a Republican in 2016. This is basically the same issue Republicans have had with the Tea Party except if it's a choice between less government and socialism independents and moderate Democrats too will vote for less government.
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Most sensible and accurate post I've seen on here.
 
Anthony60 said:
I just have no clue how the thinking works that would lead to voting for people like Obama, Sanders, and the like. I mean, how do you even get past the tremendous debt, $$$ Trillions that we can't afford now, and you are thinking it would be good to vote for someone that would continue on that path, only worse?
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Put simply, individual taxes need to go up, we need to end the wars, and we have to make addressing the debt a priority. Any austerity should not be one sided, though.

Anthony60 said:
Forget the politics, the financials don't work at all. You have to know you would be voting for a terrible outcome down the road.
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I don't agree that a counter steer after three decades of the trickle down experiment guarantees disaster.
 
Republicans would love to see a real liberal run as badly as I want to see Ted Cruz run.
Talk about handing them 2016 on a platter.

This is the same mentality that led over 53,000 Florida voters to vote for Ralph Nader third party in 2000 and we all know what that gave us.
If you think eight more years of next generation GWB is acceptable, go for it.

Meanwhile, you've already bit on the bait I've been watching these guys put in the trap since I was 14-YO during 1968.
The year Bobby Kennedy went down--along with Martin Luther King Jr.
Hard Truth said:
A lot of us would like to get a real liberal in office instead of the same old Clinton/Obama style centrist we have gotten.
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Helix said:
Put simply, individual taxes need to go up, we need to end the wars, and we have to make addressing the debt a priority. Any austerity should not be one sided, though.



I don't agree that a counter steer after three decades of the trickle down experiment guarantees disaster.
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I have personally calculated that I give approximately 50% of what I earn to one tax or another through the chain. How much is ENOUGH?
 
tres borrachos said:
Most sensible and accurate post I've seen on here.
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I'm enjoying you Conservatives/Libertarian-Rights fawning all over a Bernie Sanders thread.
As if you'd ever give a thought to voting for him.
Now in Illinois, you could cross-over in the primaries and vote Democratic.
You'd feel mighty cleansed afterward as I do as a registered Republican .
 
j-mac said:
I have personally calculated that I give approximately 50% of what I earn to one tax or another through the chain. How much is ENOUGH?
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I too pay all of the taxes I think I need to pay, thankyouverymuch. How much more are we supposed to pay?
 
NIMBY said:
I'm enjoying you Conservatives/Libertarian-Rights fawning all over a Bernie Sanders thread.
As if you'd ever give a thought to voting for him.
Now in Illinois, you could cross-over in the primaries and vote Democratic.
You'd feel mighty cleansed afterward as I do as a registered Republican .
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I never said I'd vote for Sanders, did I?

In NH I can vote for either party too.
 
Mr.Nick said:
I find it hard to believe that a progressive actually has a shot at the presidency.... The only hope the democrats have is Billary and she will be a long shot at best, just as long as republicans can find a way to nominate a libertarian leaning candidate.

IF these clowns even think of nominating a progressive or RINO then they meet the criteria for insanity...... Those philosophies have been tried and failed from both sides. It's time for something new....

And libertarians really need to stop running and associating themselves with Republicans - that within itself is a good way to destroy your chances....
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Unfortunately, the only way Hillary is going to lose is if Sanders runs as an Independent. That will siphon so much of the Liberal vote that Republicans will win in a landslide. If he doesn't run as an Independent, the GOP is screwed in 2016.
 
j-mac said:
I have personally calculated that I give approximately 50% of what
I earn to one tax or another through the chain. How much is ENOUGH?
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How much is enough with tax breaks for the rich and corporations.
The very same tax breaks that have the GOP governor in Kansas in deep trouble, not to mention the state's finances.
Even moderate Republicans as yourself have abandoned Brownback .
 
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