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Obama: "ISIL Is Not Islamic"

rcart76 said:
Look up the meaning of the burning cross and you will rethink your statement. Its unfair to label a religion base on a radical segment. This is why many people are turning away from the church. The segment that spews hateful rhetoric gets all the publicity. The Islam religion has over 2.2 billion followers world wide and yet Americans believe they want to kill Americans.
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No, I probably won't rethink it. Some groups claim all kinds of connections and justifications for what is unmitigated hate. Recognizing the true nature of such groups is fundamental. Radical Islam is the defining principle behind all such terrorist groups. Christianity is not the defining element of the KKK. Racial hatred is. The KKK would use any set of beliefs they think would gain them support for the specific hatred they spew. Radical Islam is fixated on a specific, rigid set of beliefs founded in specific sections of the Koran most Muslims don't recognize as definitive of Islam at all.
 
Montecresto said:
Obama's statement had nothing to do with Christianity. And these guys aren't practicing what their contemporaries are, that's all Obama was saying.
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Which really means nothing. He was trying to be politically correct, trying to insulate mainstream Muslims from his criticisms against ISIL. Well maybe they ought to be criticized. Maybe it's time that mainstream Muslims are told that some of these problems come from the irrational beliefs they have. Of course, Obama would never say such things, honesty isn't part of American politics (or any other country for that matter), but it still needs to be said.
 
Cephus said:
Which really means nothing. He was trying to be politically correct, trying to insulate mainstream Muslims from his criticisms against ISIL. Well maybe they ought to be criticized. Maybe it's time that mainstream Muslims are told that some of these problems come from the irrational beliefs they have. Of course, Obama would never say such things, honesty isn't part of American politics (or any other country for that matter), but it still needs to be said.
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True, honesty is rarely (wouldn't go so far as you have) part of American politics. However, all Muslims do NOT need to be compared to these extremists for lots of reasons, politics but one.
 
Dave Mittner said:
How is it "goofy" to explain that the vast, vast majority of over one billion Muslims aren't out to kill us? I think that's kind of important.
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I saw what he said. He did not say that "The vast majority of over one billion Muslims are out to kill us. What you are claiming here is absolutely untrue.
I've certainly seen a lot of people state that, along with justifying their stance based on the violence of Mohammed.
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And they would be right, as anyone with a little understand of the Koran will attest.
 
TobyOne said:
He's just feeding the dumb liberal tweety birds. Obama has the righties when it comes to being tough on ISIS. He had them at "bomb". He needed to keep what is left of his lefty support intact. If you listen closely, much of that speech was to mollify the left. They way you do that is make stupid statements that they believe.
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I think you're right. However when he mollifies and talks down to his followers he also sends messages to the enemy and those who might want to help in a coalition. The world needs adult leadership and instead elects someone from the teachers lounge to lead the country.
 
TheNextEra said:
The same reason you would deny that Fred Phelps is a Christian or even a Baptist. Because they aren't and just because they say they are doesn't make it so.
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Are the ISL following the teachings of Mohamed? Do you know what passages of the Koran may be inspiring them?
 
Montecresto said:
I, and he would be basing it on the fact that their behavior isn't consistent with the rest of Islam, the other billion.
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That issue has been settled years ago but still hasn't penetrated the minds of those who follow Obama.

The fact is that not all Muslims are terrorists. Not all Muslims are terrorists. Some Muslims are terrorists, or potential terrorists, and there are many who want to kill infidels and create a caliphate. They are not the majority but they are numerous. These are the people we must deal with.

How difficult is that to understand?
 
Grant said:
This guy is obviously following the teachings of the Koran, which was my earlier point also. This is one of the people Obama claimed was not a true Muslim, but i think he would hesitate to say that one on one.
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I think you are right. ISIL may not be the Islam the President wants people to think of, but to them, they most certainly are.
 
Grant said:
That issue has been settled years ago but still hasn't penetrated the minds of those who follow Obama.

The fact is that not all Muslims are terrorists. Not all Muslims are terrorists. Some Muslims are terrorists, or potential terrorists, and there are many who want to kill infidels and create a caliphate. They are not the majority but they are numerous. These are the people we must deal with.

How difficult is that to understand?
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Not at all. Who would disagree with the statement, not all Muslims are terrorists. Or, the statement that, some Muslims are terrorists. The same could be said of many religious groups.
 
George Bush, just as Obama, went out of his way to distinguish between moderates and extremists, and the scourge of partisanship hadn't a problem with it then as now. The type of hypocrisy I encounter on this board routinely.

PHILADELPHIA - American Muslims welcome the nomination of Daniel Pipes, a scholar of militant Islam and director of the Middle East Forum, by President Bush to serve on the board of the US Institute of Peace. They note in particular his care to distinguish between the minority of Islamists and the majority of normal, patriotic Muslims.

Bush Nominates Daniel Pipes to Board of US Institute of Peace: Moderate Muslims Welcome the Appointment
 
kramercat said:
"Now let’s make two things clear: ISIL is not Islamic. No religion condones the killing of innocents, and the vast majority of ISIL’s victims have been Muslim."

Oh really? There has been an ongoing war, even before ISIS, with Sunni and Shia Muslims killing each other, and both killing Christians - so exactly who is innocent and who is guilty?

Whether you like it or not, the name of the terrorist group is 'Islamic State'. They want a government governed strictly by Sharia, or Islamic, law. So yes, they are Islamic - the most fundamentalist form of Islam, but Islam.
The Muslims are waiting for their 'Mahdi' - who is the anti-Christ.
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 The Islamic religion itself is anti-Christian. It was created to directly oppose the notion that Jesus Christ died for the sins of mankind, and the Koran says explicitly that Jesus Christ is not the Son of God. So who is so adamantly opposed to Christ? I mean, there is no other religion that takes the religious text of another religion and twists it around to mean something else. The Virgin Mary appears in the Koran, as well as Jesus... only their roles have been changed. Those who think that they are following the same God of Abraham are mistaken - Allah is the ancient moon-god, and the crescent and star derive from him. So who is it that desperately wants mankind to NOT accept Jesus Christ as Savior - why the devil, of course.

Obama: "ISIL Is Not Islamic" | Video | RealClearPolitics
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Wrong.

The anti-Christs were the Roman soldiers who nailed Jesus Christ to the cross over 2,000 years ago.




[I]"In truth there was only one christian and he died on the cross." [/I]~ Friedrich Nietzsche
 
TobyOne said:
A "vast majority" isn't exactly comforting. How many muslims are there in the world and how many are out to kill us? 10%? 20% ? Still allows for a vast majority that aren't out to kill us but a huge number that do.
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If 320 million+ terrorists were out to kill us with anywhere near the same conviction as those who have attacked us in the past, I'm not sure we'd still be here. Even 1% of them would be 16 million. The entire ISIS army is believed to be under 40,000. So the overall number of Muslims wanting to kill us? I'd say more like 0.01%. And that's assuming there are 184,000 "Muslim" terrorists out there, which seems to be a reasonable estimate--maybe even a little high.

But the fact you jumped to think 10%-20% of them certainly validates the need for POTUS to clarify things.
 
LOL. He couldn't clarify the alphabet.

Dave Mittner said:
If 320 million+ terrorists were out to kill us with anywhere near the same conviction as those who have attacked us in the past, I'm not sure we'd still be here. Even 1% of them would be 16 million. The entire ISIS army is believed to be under 40,000. So the overall number of Muslims wanting to kill us? I'd say more like 0.01%. And that's assuming there are 184,000 "Muslim" terrorists out there, which seems to be a reasonable estimate--maybe even a little high.

But the fact you jumped to think 10%-20% of them certainly validates the need for POTUS to clarify things.
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Grant said:
I saw what he said. He did not say that "The vast majority of over one billion Muslims are out to kill us. What you are claiming here is absolutely untrue.
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Huh? I never said Obama said anything of the sort. I said he was trying to explain to the people that it's an incredibly small percentage of self-described "Muslims". And i think that's an important message for POTUS to send. Bush did the same after 9/11.

And they would be right, as anyone with a little understand of the Koran will attest.
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What a book says and what a religion preaches are two very different things. Christianity wouldn't look that great it if was practiced the way it was a few hundred years ago, either, despite the Bible not changing. And radicalized Islam constitutes well under 0.05% of the general Islam teaching.
 
shrubnose said:
Wrong.

The anti-Christs were the Roman soldiers who nailed Jesus Christ to the cross over 2,000 years ago.

You are wrong - Pontius Pilate did not want to crucify Jesus, the non-believing Jews did.


'22 Pilate said to them, “What then shall I do with Jesus who is called Christ?”

They all said to him, “Let Him be crucified!”

23 Then the governor said, “Why, what evil has He done?”

But they cried out all the more, saying, “Let Him be crucified!”

24 When Pilate saw that he could not prevail at all, but rather that a tumult was rising, he took water and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, “I am innocent of the blood of this just Person. You see to it.”

25 And all the people answered and said, “His blood be on us and on our children.”

Matthew 27
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Dave Mittner said:
Huh? I never said Obama said anything of the sort. I said he was trying to explain to the people that it's an incredibly small percentage of self-described "Muslims". And i think that's an important message for POTUS to send.
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Then why didn't he say that?
What a book says and what a religion preaches are two very different things.
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That's right. But followers are able to follow any part of the book and still be adherents of, in the case, Mohamed. It doesn't make them non-Muslims by following the teachings of Mohamed even though we disapprove of those teachings.
Christianity wouldn't look that great it if was practiced the way it was a few hundred years ago, either, despite the Bible not changing.
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Yes, if Christianity was practiced the way it was in early times, but it isn't. Islam has had no significant reforms,and that is the problem. It is not that they are not true Muslims.
And radicalized Islam constitutes well under 0.05% of the general Islam teaching.
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Can you send a link to support your claim?
 
Grant said:
Then why didn't he say that?
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He did say that. Radical Islamists are not the same as mainstream Muslims.

That's right. But followers are able to follow any part of the book and still be adherents of, in the case, Mohamed. It doesn't make them non-Muslims by following the teachings of Mohamed even though we disapprove of those teachings.
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No, but it does separate them from the recognized leaders and teachings of the Muslim faith.

Yes, if Christianity was practiced the way it was in early times, but it isn't. Islam has had no significant reforms,and that is the problem.
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I completely disagree. There are some 1.6 billion Muslims in the world with only 20% of them being in the Middle-East, where we see the worst practices of it. But even then, the worst aspects are carried out by a tiny fraction of even that 20%.

Can you send a link to support your claim?
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I already did.
An estimated 184,000 Muslim terrorists
And it's easy to verify that there are approx. 1.6 billion Muslims on the planet.

184,000 / 1,600,000,000 * 100 = 0.01%
 
I think he was trying to isolate the terrorists, but for goodness sakes doesn't he have a whole room of writers?
 
Montecresto said:
I, and he would be basing it on the fact that their behavior isn't consistent with the rest of Islam, the other billion.
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Again, historically speaking....that is not true.

Heard of the Armenian genocide?
 
Kobie said:
I think he's trying to go No True Scotsman and say that ISIL doesn't represent Islam, but if there was a worse way to spit it out, I can't imagine.
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Oh everything Obama blunders on is just a "mistake" - yeah well he surely seems to make a ****-ton of mistakes then.....

Obama makes G.W look like Winston Churchill....
 
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