• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

More than 100 teens swarm Memphis plaza, 'knocking out' shoppers



The Matthew Sheppard case was never a hate crime...

But, on the November 26, 2004, 20/20, ABC host Elizabeth Vargas ran a report in which a number of figures tied to the case, including the prosecutor, were interviewed, and made a credible case that Shepard was targeted by Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson not because of anti-gay sentiment, but because McKinney was high on methamphetamines, giving him unusual violent tendencies as well as a desire for cash to buy more drugs. Vargas not only found that a meth high can lead to the kind of extreme violence perpetrated against Shepard, but that McKinney had gone on to similarly attack another man, causing a skull fracture, very soon after his attack on Shepard. Additionally, McKinney’s girlfriend and another friend of McKinney’s even claimed that McKinney himself has bisexual tendencies, although McKinney himself denied it.

Vargas appeared on the November 19, 2004, The O’Reilly Factor on FNC and summarized her findings:

The prosecutor who prosecuted these crimes says that he never believed it was a hate crime. He believes it was a drug crime. Aaron McKinney, according to Aaron McKinney himself and to several other witnesses, was coming down from a five-day methamphetamine binge. He freely admits he not only used methamphetamine but dealt them, sold them. Five days up with no sleep, strung out on drugs, desperate to buy more, desperate to rob somebody to get money to buy more drugs. This was the motive, according to Aaron McKinney and the other witnesses.

Below is a transcript of relevant portions of the Friday, November 19, 2004 The O’Reilly Factor on FNC, followed by the Wednesday, April 29, Countdown show on MSNBC and the same days’s Hardball on MSNBC:

#From the November 19, 2004, The O’Reilly Factor:

ELIZABETH VARGAS: We talked to a lot of witnesses in the case, looked at statements that had been previously sealed by the court following the convictions. And what we found out was that sort of the original version of events that everybody believed may not be true. The version of events was Matthew Shepard didn't know, had never met these two men, that they targeted him, attacked him, and beat him so severely because he was gay. We have talked to several witnesses who say actually the men may have in fact known each other.

...

BILL O'REILLY: I just want to fill people's memories in because it was -- apparently, they were at a bar, these two guys felt he was coming on to them in some way, they lured him outside and they killed him. That was basically the nut. You're saying there was more to the murder?

VARGAS: Even the prosecutor says there was more to the murder. The prosecutor who prosecuted these crimes says that he never believed it was a hate crime. He believes it was a drug crime. Aaron McKinney, according to Aaron McKinney himself and to several other witnesses, was coming down from a five-day methamphetamine binge. He freely admits he not only used methamphetamine but dealt them, sold them. Five days up with no sleep, strung out on drugs, desperate to buy more, desperate to rob somebody to get money to buy more drugs. This was the motive, according to Aaron McKinney and the other witnesses.

...

VARGAS: When we talked to an expert about this, it was something called methamphetamine rage. I mean, it's something that experts say is common for somebody coming – he beat another boy that night, another young man, only this young man. ... right after he left Matthew Shepard tied to the fence, he and his friend drove down into town, and, 20 minutes later, he was attacking somebody else in the exact same fashion. This young man happened to be armed with a baseball bat and had a friend there to help him out. Matthew Shepard was unarmed and by himself and was much more a victim of his-

...

O'REILLY: So you may get backlash now from the gay groups who say, well, why even bother with this thing? What are you going to, what's the answer to that?

VARGAS: The answer to that is we're trying, we have an obligation to uncover the truth of what really happened. 20/20 was one of the first newsmagazine's to go out with this story that this was a bias crime, this was a hate crime way back in 1998 when this happened. ... The girlfriend of Aaron McKinney went on our program in silhouette ... She lied. She comes to us now, not in silhouette, in full face to admit that she lied. This was something they cooked up hoping to get him a lesser sentence to explain why he might have freaked out and done what he did.

O'REILLY: So they were going homophobia, whatever? They tried to do it.

VARGAS: They claimed that this was something from the beginning they cooked up as a way to get a lesser sentence. But I must say it's important to know we knew this would be controversial. We know there will be some people who are not happy about this version of events.

...

O'REILLY: And you're a hundred percent sure that this is correct? Now you're not going to come back a year from now and say, well, we're going back to the gay thing?

VARGAS: I'm a hundred percent sure our hour is accurate. We talked to a lot of people, have a very, very-

O'REILLY: If you have a girl recanting, that's big.

VARGAS: We do. And the prosecutor himself saying he never believed it was a hate crime.

- See more at: ABC Debunked Matthew Shepard Murder as No Hate Crime, MSNBC Savages Republican for Repeating
 
Ignoring reality is a bad way to go through life son.......just sayin'

I ignore outright racist remarks because they do not deserve to be answered.
 
And did you also notice that there is also outrage from the black community?

Yes, and that's a good thing...I also noticed that this wasn't specifically an attack on white people either. That this group of teens just swarmed and attacked anyone in their way if frightening in an anarchy kind of way....
 
It is only a matter of time now that another group of teens will duplicate this. It must have been orchestrated like the so call Flash Mobs have been done before.

Don't know how shopping centers can deal with this. Shopping centers already facing financial woes would need to have a real security presence and not the guy with the beer belly strolling through the corridors.

The idiot kicking the guy laying on the ground needs a barbed wire enema. I mean really, feeling like a tough guy kicking someone already down?
 
The parents should be held responsible if they were in fact negligible. Demanding that they make a public statement, however, is frankly an unreasonable request.

I beg to differ. If i had done such a thing, my mother would have come, grabbed me by the ears and paddled me all the way to the big house herself.
Perhaps not "demanding", but suggesting the parents at least speak out? They do speak out when they perceive their offspring is wronged, yes? They raised their kids, or at least they are supposed to instill into them a sense of right and wrong. Speaking out again such acts of violence is taking responsibility, acknowledging that what has happened must, and does, have consequences.
Those who come out in droves to judge before knowing all the facts and supposedly know what is right and wrong, let them come out now and speak up. That would be the most loving thing to do, not just for these guys, but all those who ever think of doing such a thing.
Lets hold these kids responsible for their actions, just as we hold the police responsible for their action.
What must people do to bring attention to this senseless violence? Loot and protest?
Bless those who were trying to do the right thing, to help, but let those who joined in, enjoyed and profited from such atrocity, be held accountable.
 
The Matthew Sheppard case was never a hate crime...

That and his main attacker was bi-sexual himself. He was well known at Boulder's dive gay bar as being a "macho cowboy" type who, when he had access to a steady supply of drugs, would drive from Cheyenne to Boulder and exchange drugs for sex favors with gay patrons.

Of course, to CNN type media, the gay hate crime story was alot sexier than the reality.
 
And it's highly likely that nobody would even notice if I called them feral, which I would.. In fact, I'd probably have quite a few self-professed liberals here who would think it was an appropriate description of them, and would not be offended in the least.

Usage and intent matters. The term feral has been and is still used to describe the black race as a lower and lesser evolved life form. The term simply does not carry the same stigma and meaning when applied otherwise.

and in fact, would probably call them even worse since they are white.

And here you are complaining about other people's victim complexes.. :lol:
 
they are valued for what value they can contribute to their employer.....what part of that doesn't make sense or seems unfair to you?

It sounds fine to me. Some people accuse people with low wages of being stupid, uneducated, good for nothing, underacheivers, a burden to society, lazy, a disappointment to their family or millions of other insults. There is no dignity in working for a low wage. People talk about bad about you whether you work for a low wage or whether you don't work at all. The smarter person doesn't work at all. The non-working individual can avoid the harassment of all the godlike people that made $50,000 a year at their first job.

I don't have a problem with people working for low wages. Not everybody views low wages workers the same. If you are going to be treated like crap no matter what, it's better to have an extra 40 hours to yourself.
 
Back
Top Bottom