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2 NC men's convictions overturned in 1983 killing

danarhea

danarhea

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Superior Court Judge Douglass Sasser ordered the immediate release of Henry McCollum, 50, and Leon Brown, 46. The half brothers were convicted in the 1983 slaying of Sabrina Buie in Robeson County.

Lawyers for the men petitioned for their release after DNA evidence from a cigarette butt recovered at the crime scene pointed to another man. That man, who lived close to the soybean field where the dead girl's body was found, is already serving a life sentence for a similar rape and murder that happened less than a month later.
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I know what many of you are going to say...... See, the system works. They were innocent, and they are now released. To that I reply "Caca del Toro" in the strongest words.

1) No the system did NOT work for them. Because of a crooked prosecutor who coerced fake testimony from 2 "witnesses", These 2 guys had 30 years ripped from their lives, and did not have a chance to get married, have kids, and be able to watch grandkids grow up.

2) The guy who did the crime is in prison. Guess what for? Yea, that's right. For raping and murdering another girl a month later. In my honest opinion, that crooked prosecutor is to blame for that murder too. It's too bad he can't be charged as an accessory to that murder.

3) And, yes, these 2 guys are miraculously off death row, and won't be executed. Bravo. Tell that to the family of Cameron Todd Willingham, an innocent man who was executed in Texas a few years ago, BEFORE being found innocent. If not for the DNA on a cigarette butt, these 2 guys would have also fried.

And so here is the deal on why I am so strongly against the death penalty. It's not that some people don't deserve it. Some definitely do. And, if the death penalty was perfect, I would gladly volunteer to throw the switch myself. But it's not, and putting to death the many who deserve it is not worth the few innocents who are put to death along with them. As long as we have an imperfect death penalty, we are no better than the many. We are murderers too.
Article is here.
 
danarhea said:
I know what many of you are going to say...... See, the system works. They were innocent, and they are now released. To that I reply "Caca del Toro" in the strongest words.
Click to expand...

Who would say the system works when they were in prison for thirty years? As you said, they had their entire life ripped from them.
 
danarhea said:
I know what many of you are going to say...... See, the system works. They were innocent, and they are now released. To that I reply "Caca del Toro" in the strongest words.

1) No the system did NOT work for them. Because of a crooked prosecutor who coerced fake testimony from 2 "witnesses", These 2 guys had 30 years ripped from their lives, and did not have a chance to get married, have kids, and be able to watch grandkids grow up.

2) The guy who did the crime is in prison. Guess what for? Yea, that's right. For raping and murdering another girl a month later. In my honest opinion, that crooked prosecutor is to blame for that murder too. It's too bad he can't be charged as an accessory to that murder.

3) And, yes, these 2 guys are off death row, and won't be executed. Bravo. Tell that to the family of Cameron Todd Willingham, an innocent man who was executed in Texas a few years ago, BEFORE being found innocent.

And so here is the deal on why I am so strongly against the death penalty. It's not that some people don't deserve it. Some definitely do. And, if the death penalty was perfect, I would gladly volunteer to throw the switch myself. But it's not, and putting to death the many who deserve it is not worth the few innocents who are put to death along with them. As long as we have an imperfect death penalty, we are no better than the many. We are also murderers.

Article is here.
Click to expand...

these people were convicted decades ago, as technology advances I'd easily say that the room for error also decreases.

a couple decades from now and only the smart criminals (in the form of internet robbers, hackers, etc.) will survive. Dumb criminals will die (street thugs, rapists, murderers). I want to keep the death penalty only because I am 10X more confident of the legal system than the ability of the criminal's to get away or the chances of a lawyer to be corrupted to such an extent.

Besides, personally, kill me, 20-30 years-life in prison doesn't sound any better.
 
danarhea said:
I know what many of you are going to say...... See, the system works. They were innocent, and they are now released. To that I reply "Caca del Toro" in the strongest words.

1) No the system did NOT work for them. Because of a crooked prosecutor who coerced fake testimony from 2 "witnesses", These 2 guys had 30 years ripped from their lives, and did not have a chance to get married, have kids, and be able to watch grandkids grow up.

2) The guy who did the crime is in prison. Guess what for? Yea, that's right. For raping and murdering another girl a month later. In my honest opinion, that crooked prosecutor is to blame for that murder too. It's too bad he can't be charged as an accessory to that murder.

3) And, yes, these 2 guys are miraculously off death row, and won't be executed. Bravo. Tell that to the family of Cameron Todd Willingham, an innocent man who was executed in Texas a few years ago, BEFORE being found innocent. If not for the DNA on a cigarette butt, these 2 guys would have also fried.

And so here is the deal on why I am so strongly against the death penalty. It's not that some people don't deserve it. Some definitely do. And, if the death penalty was perfect, I would gladly volunteer to throw the switch myself. But it's not, and putting to death the many who deserve it is not worth the few innocents who are put to death along with them. As long as we have an imperfect death penalty, we are no better than the many. We are murderers too.
Article is here.
Click to expand...


Now, if they had capital punishment in that state?

There is no way in the burning depths of hell that anyone can make a legitimate claim that "the system works" at all, when you consider the stats of the country, highest incarceration and recidivism rates in the industrialized world, one of the highest crime rates and on and on.

The "corrections system" is no longer about corrections but outright vengeance when anyone spends 30 years behind bars...the maximum sentence for anything in Canada is life without parole for 25 years and that was last used for a serial killer. In this case it was corruption....so if there is any "working" in the system perhaps someone can tell me why it took 30 years to unearth?
 
Luftwaffe said:
these people were convicted decades ago, as technology advances I'd easily say that the room for error also decreases.

a couple decades from now and only the smart criminals (in the form of internet robbers, hackers, etc.) will survive. Dumb criminals will die (street thugs, rapists, murderers). I want to keep the death penalty only because I am 10X more confident of the legal system than the ability of the criminal's to get away or the chances of a lawyer to be corrupted to such an extent.

Besides, personally, kill me, 20-30 years-life in prison doesn't sound any better.
Click to expand...


And if the death penalty were in place here, these innocent men would have been the victims of state sanctioned murder.

Better ten go free than one convicted wrongfully was or is a motto of your own legal system dating back to 1776. I guess now it's better to have ten die wrongfully than have one go free....

Your faith in the justice system is remarkable if not entirely misplaced on a thread that has demonstrated the system is subject to corruption and misuse.

Astonishing
 
Fearandloathing said:
And if the death penalty were in place here, these innocent men would have been the victims of state sanctioned murder.

Better ten go free than one convicted wrongfully was or is a motto of your own legal system dating back to 1776. I guess now it's better to have ten die wrongfully than have one go free....

Your faith in the justice system is remarkable if not entirely misplaced on a thread that has demonstrated the system is subject to corruption and misuse.

Astonishing
Click to expand...

I captivate a lot of people ;)

I have faith in the justice system, so astonishing.
 
danarhea said:
I know what many of you are going to say...... See, the system works. They were innocent, and they are now released. To that I reply "Caca del Toro" in the strongest words.

1) No the system did NOT work for them. Because of a crooked prosecutor who coerced fake testimony from 2 "witnesses", These 2 guys had 30 years ripped from their lives, and did not have a chance to get married, have kids, and be able to watch grandkids grow up.

2) The guy who did the crime is in prison. Guess what for? Yea, that's right. For raping and murdering another girl a month later. In my honest opinion, that crooked prosecutor is to blame for that murder too. It's too bad he can't be charged as an accessory to that murder.

3) And, yes, these 2 guys are miraculously off death row, and won't be executed. Bravo. Tell that to the family of Cameron Todd Willingham, an innocent man who was executed in Texas a few years ago, BEFORE being found innocent. If not for the DNA on a cigarette butt, these 2 guys would have also fried.

And so here is the deal on why I am so strongly against the death penalty. It's not that some people don't deserve it. Some definitely do. And, if the death penalty was perfect, I would gladly volunteer to throw the switch myself. But it's not, and putting to death the many who deserve it is not worth the few innocents who are put to death along with them. As long as we have an imperfect death penalty, we are no better than the many. We are murderers too.
Article is here.
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This is one of the guys that Scalia once said he should be put to death no?
 
PeteEU said:
This is one of the guys that Scalia once said he should be put to death no?
Click to expand...

Yup, Scalia actually cited this case in reference to another case the Supremes were considering. But Scalia is a death penalty supporter, and the crime he referenced was particularly gruesome. I don't necessarily fault Scalia as much as I fault the system itself.
 
danarhea said:
I know what many of you are going to say...... See, the system works. They were innocent, and they are now released. To that I reply "Caca del Toro" in the strongest words.

1) No the system did NOT work for them. Because of a crooked prosecutor who coerced fake testimony from 2 "witnesses", These 2 guys had 30 years ripped from their lives, and did not have a chance to get married, have kids, and be able to watch grandkids grow up.

2) The guy who did the crime is in prison. Guess what for? Yea, that's right. For raping and murdering another girl a month later. In my honest opinion, that crooked prosecutor is to blame for that murder too. It's too bad he can't be charged as an accessory to that murder.

3) And, yes, these 2 guys are miraculously off death row, and won't be executed. Bravo. Tell that to the family of Cameron Todd Willingham, an innocent man who was executed in Texas a few years ago, BEFORE being found innocent. If not for the DNA on a cigarette butt, these 2 guys would have also fried.

And so here is the deal on why I am so strongly against the death penalty. It's not that some people don't deserve it. Some definitely do. And, if the death penalty was perfect, I would gladly volunteer to throw the switch myself. But it's not, and putting to death the many who deserve it is not worth the few innocents who are put to death along with them. As long as we have an imperfect death penalty, we are no better than the many. We are murderers too.
Article is here.
Click to expand...

And Supreme Court Justice Anton Scalia once pushed to have these two INNOCENT men executed.

This is why I'm so strongly against the death penalty.
 
danarhea said:
I know what many of you are going to say...... See, the system works. They were innocent, and they are now released. To that I reply "Caca del Toro" in the strongest words.

1) No the system did NOT work for them. Because of a crooked prosecutor who coerced fake testimony from 2 "witnesses", These 2 guys had 30 years ripped from their lives, and did not have a chance to get married, have kids, and be able to watch grandkids grow up.

2) The guy who did the crime is in prison. Guess what for? Yea, that's right. For raping and murdering another girl a month later. In my honest opinion, that crooked prosecutor is to blame for that murder too. It's too bad he can't be charged as an accessory to that murder.

3) And, yes, these 2 guys are miraculously off death row, and won't be executed. Bravo. Tell that to the family of Cameron Todd Willingham, an innocent man who was executed in Texas a few years ago, BEFORE being found innocent. If not for the DNA on a cigarette butt, these 2 guys would have also fried.

And so here is the deal on why I am so strongly against the death penalty. It's not that some people don't deserve it. Some definitely do. And, if the death penalty was perfect, I would gladly volunteer to throw the switch myself. But it's not, and putting to death the many who deserve it is not worth the few innocents who are put to death along with them. As long as we have an imperfect death penalty, we are no better than the many. We are murderers too.
Article is here.
Click to expand...
Exactly why I'm against the death penalty as well. I think it's the easy way out for criminals anyway. It isn't cheaper. It doesn't prevent crime. It clogs the court rooms with appeal after appeal. Make those dirt bags sit and stare at 4 walls for the rest of their life. If it were me, I'd rather die honestly.
 
You have to look at it positively. Were it not for the death penalty, those that only give a damn about the cause wouldnt have cared if these two men were locked away forever. At least now they can offer the slightest pretense of outrage for and on their behalf.
 
danarhea said:
I know what many of you are going to say...... See, the system works. They were innocent, and they are now released. To that I reply "Caca del Toro" in the strongest words.

1) No the system did NOT work for them. Because of a crooked prosecutor who coerced fake testimony from 2 "witnesses", These 2 guys had 30 years ripped from their lives, and did not have a chance to get married, have kids, and be able to watch grandkids grow up.

2) The guy who did the crime is in prison. Guess what for? Yea, that's right. For raping and murdering another girl a month later. In my honest opinion, that crooked prosecutor is to blame for that murder too. It's too bad he can't be charged as an accessory to that murder.

3) And, yes, these 2 guys are miraculously off death row, and won't be executed. Bravo. Tell that to the family of Cameron Todd Willingham, an innocent man who was executed in Texas a few years ago, BEFORE being found innocent. If not for the DNA on a cigarette butt, these 2 guys would have also fried.

And so here is the deal on why I am so strongly against the death penalty. It's not that some people don't deserve it. Some definitely do. And, if the death penalty was perfect, I would gladly volunteer to throw the switch myself. But it's not, and putting to death the many who deserve it is not worth the few innocents who are put to death along with them. As long as we have an imperfect death penalty, we are no better than the many. We are murderers too.
Article is here.
Click to expand...

If it is provable that a crooked prosecutor deliberately participated in the framing of two men for murder that he knew were innocent—or at least knew he didn't have nearly enough cause to support their guilt through honest means—with the result that these two innocent men came very close to being put to death for the crimes of which they were falsely convicted, then I think this is an excellent argument that the death penalty absolutely should be applied, to the corrupt prosecutor. After a fair and proper trial, of course, and proper sentencing.
 
sangha said:
Isn't Scalia the one who said something like "proof of actual innocence should not be sufficient to overturn a guilty verdict"?
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I thought I remember that quote being fake.
 
danarhea said:
I know what many of you are going to say...... See, the system works. They were innocent, and they are now released. To that I reply "Caca del Toro" in the strongest words.

1) No the system did NOT work for them. Because of a crooked prosecutor who coerced fake testimony from 2 "witnesses", These 2 guys had 30 years ripped from their lives, and did not have a chance to get married, have kids, and be able to watch grandkids grow up.

2) The guy who did the crime is in prison. Guess what for? Yea, that's right. For raping and murdering another girl a month later. In my honest opinion, that crooked prosecutor is to blame for that murder too. It's too bad he can't be charged as an accessory to that murder.

3) And, yes, these 2 guys are miraculously off death row, and won't be executed. Bravo. Tell that to the family of Cameron Todd Willingham, an innocent man who was executed in Texas a few years ago, BEFORE being found innocent. If not for the DNA on a cigarette butt, these 2 guys would have also fried.

And so here is the deal on why I am so strongly against the death penalty. It's not that some people don't deserve it. Some definitely do. And, if the death penalty was perfect, I would gladly volunteer to throw the switch myself. But it's not, and putting to death the many who deserve it is not worth the few innocents who are put to death along with them. As long as we have an imperfect death penalty, we are no better than the many. We are murderers too.
Article is here.
Click to expand...

You think that is bad look up the story of Jerry Hobbs or Juan Rivera.

Long story short: Hobbs was in jail for 5 years charged with his own daughters murder and rape DESPITE THE FACT the DA had DNA that matched a serial killer and rapist and hid the evidence for 3 of those 5 years.... Rivera's case is similar to Hobbs but the little girl he allegedly murdered wasn't his daughter and Rivera spent nearly 20 years in prison for that crime - he clearly didn't commit.

Those are just two cases from my county...

There are too many innocent people in prison or jail right now because cops are lazy arrogant fools...

This is why I work with and contribute to the Innocence Project..
 
VanceMack said:
You have to look at it positively. Were it not for the death penalty, those that only give a damn about the cause wouldnt have cared if these two men were locked away forever. At least now they can offer the slightest pretense of outrage for and on their behalf.
Click to expand...

If it wasn't for the death penalty, nothing would have been retested in this case and those two men would still be in jail.
 
sangha said:
Isn't Scalia the one who said something like "proof of actual innocence should not be sufficient to overturn a guilty verdict"?
Click to expand...

I didn't know that! And when I looked it up, Justice Thomas said pretty much the same thing, something along the lines of "It doesn't matter if they're innocent - if they've been declared guilty in a court of law and sentenced to death, then they should be executed."

This happens much more to minorities, of course...and we see the dearth of protest from the Right. But if, say, the "sovereign citizen" over in Nevada is sentenced to death for, say, killing a federal agent and then turns out to be innocent...gee, what would the Right do then? I think we all know.

They're not too concerned that some innocent people are wrongfully convicted or even executed...as long as they aren't THEIR people....
 
In cases like this, the state needs to compensate them for life!!! They should not have to pay for a thing outta pocket!!! It's the least the state can do for robbing them of three decades! "I'm sorry" ain't gonna suffice!
 
Glen Contrarian said:
I didn't know that! And when I looked it up, Justice Thomas said pretty much the same thing, something along the lines of "It doesn't matter if they're innocent - if they've been declared guilty in a court of law and sentenced to death, then they should be executed."

This happens much more to minorities, of course...and we see the dearth of protest from the Right. But if, say, the "sovereign citizen" over in Nevada is sentenced to death for, say, killing a federal agent and then turns out to be innocent...gee, what would the Right do then? I think we all know.

They're not too concerned that some innocent people are wrongfully convicted or even executed...as long as they aren't THEIR people....
Click to expand...

Actually, it turns out Scalia didn't say that. His position if far more nuanced, though only slightly less reprehensible.

If you have a link to Thomas' quote, I'd like to see it. He's a complete moron
 
sangha said:
Actually, it turns out Scalia didn't say that. His position if far more nuanced, though only slightly less reprehensible.

If you have a link to Thomas' quote, I'd like to see it. He's a complete moron
Click to expand...

And you're right - I did exaggerate overmuch. His position was more nuanced than I implied. Thanks :peace
 
danarhea said:
And so here is the deal on why I am so strongly against the death penalty. It's not that some people don't deserve it. Some definitely do. And, if the death penalty was perfect, I would gladly volunteer to throw the switch myself. But it's not, and putting to death the many who deserve it is not worth the few innocents who are put to death along with them. As long as we have an imperfect death penalty, we are no better than the many. We are murderers too.
Article is here.
Click to expand...

It amazes me that Conservatives who talk about how government is terrible and cant do anything well can also overwhelmingly support the death penalty, in which its pretty amply demonstrated that our justice system is lacking in all sorts of areas, and the death penalty is not a reversible punishment.
 
Threegoofs said:
It amazes me that Conservatives who talk about how government is terrible and cant do anything well can also overwhelmingly support the death penalty, in which its pretty amply demonstrated that our justice system is lacking in all sorts of areas, and the death penalty is not a reversible punishment.
Click to expand...

It becomes less amazing when you consider how stupid most of them are
 
danarhea said:
I know what many of you are going to say...... See, the system works. They were innocent, and they are now released. To that I reply "Caca del Toro" in the strongest words.

1) No the system did NOT work for them. Because of a crooked prosecutor who coerced fake testimony from 2 "witnesses", These 2 guys had 30 years ripped from their lives, and did not have a chance to get married, have kids, and be able to watch grandkids grow up.

2) The guy who did the crime is in prison. Guess what for? Yea, that's right. For raping and murdering another girl a month later. In my honest opinion, that crooked prosecutor is to blame for that murder too. It's too bad he can't be charged as an accessory to that murder.

3) And, yes, these 2 guys are miraculously off death row, and won't be executed. Bravo. Tell that to the family of Cameron Todd Willingham, an innocent man who was executed in Texas a few years ago, BEFORE being found innocent. If not for the DNA on a cigarette butt, these 2 guys would have also fried.

And so here is the deal on why I am so strongly against the death penalty. It's not that some people don't deserve it. Some definitely do. And, if the death penalty was perfect, I would gladly volunteer to throw the switch myself. But it's not, and putting to death the many who deserve it is not worth the few innocents who are put to death along with them. As long as we have an imperfect death penalty, we are no better than the many. We are murderers too.
Article is here.
Click to expand...

I also oppose the death penalty, but not for the same reason.

Really, imprisoning someone for thirty years is certainly a grave evil, if we don't require absolute certainty to do that, then we shouldn't for executing someone.

That said, the death penalty is no longer necessary to protect society.
 
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