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Michael Sam released by Rams

We're talking about a late round pick here and the only reason why this is CLEARLY an issue is because he is gay.......

Name one other late round pick that was obsessed over 10 pages?????

Yea...
 
chromium said:
or dozens of other felons
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Blame the media. Ask if there's been anywhere near the coverage of Blunt smoking up compared to Sam. The simple fact is that law violations typically don't cause a major distraction unless it's a major player. If it's a major player, the benefits to keeping them often outweigh the negative distraction. Sam is t a major player, he's a marginal one, so that equation is naturally going to look different.
 
chromium said:
Yeah like the homophobes could do any better themselves.

I agree it was business for the rams, but as for clearing waivers, same as why he was drafted so low, because the nfl is mostly full of bigots still. I mean, he was 3rd in nfl in sacks in preseason. He may not be able to start yet but to not be on *any* 53 man roster? Not buying it
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Ludicrous and ridiculous. He was drafted in an entirely reasonable spot and there's no team in the nfl that would pass on him if they think he's worthy of a spot simply because he's gay. This is laughable and your desire to focus on preseason stats is just a continuation of your months long demonstration of your ignorance of football and your biased political based approach to this story.

The problem with Sam is the same as it's been....he's an end of the roster guy at best currently who is average at what you need end of the roster guys to do, special teams. He showed well against second and third stringers (mostly third) which means little in regards to being worthy as a pass rushing specialist on an actual 53 man squad.

None of which takes into account the quite reasonable decision front offices will need to make about the level of distraction bringing him in will cause for a likely practice squad talent, ala the ridiculous "shower" story.

No team gives any more of a **** that Sam is gay than they cared that Tebow was an evangelical. They care that his football skills aren't worth having on the team on their own or possibly when weighed against the distraction he unfortunantly brings along with himself.
 
chromium said:
You'd think so, but manti te'o was basically outted in the most embarrassing self-owning way possible, yet he was drafted and all that came of it was GMs went around asking rookies if they like girls...




No it's not. It's to show complete pity to millionaire athletes who have to come anywhere near a homosexual. The plethora of NP threads in S&S jumping at even the slightest anti gay study or judge's decision makes his intentions quite clear. All i see from posters like NP (not that i ever read them but the content is obvious from others' replies) is they wish Sam and everyone else gay were simply banned from public life and in their utopia, no one would be gay. I don't give two ****s about who may be "cherry picking" from a poster guilty of such consistent bashing. You're just attempting to find nuance amidst extremism.
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One, T'eo wasn't "outed". Two, Manti was considered a top 10 to 15 prospect all year long and had a consistently very good college career. Three, despite being a Heisman finalist and being considered as a top 10 and some even top 5 pick prior to the catfish thing, he dropped into the middle of the second round in part because of the distraction he was dragging with him.

As to your ignorant opinion on people that you flat out admit to being based on prejudice as opposed to what they say, I don't care. You've shown the value and worth if your "insight" pretty clearly
 
Gringo allstar said:
So now its "outdated" to not want to shower with gay guys?? When is your coming out party?
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Actually.....yes it is. The world has gotten over it. People have been showering with gay guys for ages. Most men really don't care....and most gay men aren't crusing the showers looking to catch a glimpse of every man's junk.
 
disneydude said:
Actually.....yes it is. The world has gotten over it. People have been showering with gay guys for ages. Most men really don't care....and most gay men aren't crusing the showers looking to catch a glimpse of every man's junk.
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Actually, I don't think it's viewed as "outdated" not to want to shower with a gay guy. I don't think most people, save for extremists with political agendas, have much of an issue with someone that just would prefer not to shower with someone that's gay. Just like someone may not want to shower with a female they don't find particularly attractive. Would they not want to shower with that woman because they're "afraid" of them or because they think they're going to "Jump" them? No, it's just kind of an uncomfortable situation to be naked around someone who MAY find you as attractive OR unattractive. This feeling can even affect some guys REGARDLESS of the other person being attracted to their gender...some guys just don't like to shower with ANY other person because of feeling uncomfortable out it. I don't think there's anything "outdated" or wrong with someone who just doesn't want to shower with them.

But the thought that everyone must feel that way, or at least that all athletes must feel that way, to the point that they must be lying when they say otherwise IS based off an outdated notion. Hell, I'd actually expect athletes to have less of an issue with it than most people because they've been showering with other people for a better part of their lives where as such a thing is an oddity for others.
 
Zyphlin said:
Actually, I don't think it's viewed as "outdated" not to want to shower with a gay guy. I don't think most people, save for extremists with political agendas, have much of an issue with someone that just would prefer not to shower with someone that's gay. Just like someone may not want to shower with a female they don't find particularly attractive. Would they not want to shower with that woman because they're "afraid" of them or because they think they're going to "Jump" them? No, it's just kind of an uncomfortable situation to be naked around someone who MAY find you as attractive OR unattractive. This feeling can even affect some guys REGARDLESS of the other person being attracted to their gender...some guys just don't like to shower with ANY other person because of feeling uncomfortable out it. I don't think there's anything "outdated" or wrong with someone who just doesn't want to shower with them.

But the thought that everyone must feel that way, or at least that all athletes must feel that way, to the point that they must be lying when they say otherwise IS based off an outdated notion. Hell, I'd actually expect athletes to have less of an issue with it than most people because they've been showering with other people for a better part of their lives where as such a thing is an oddity for others.
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For one....communal showers are less and less common. Most gyms have individual showers these days. Second....most guys I know don't really care. Of course, if some guy is oogling them or comes on to them, that is a different story, but most younger guys these days are comfortable with gay men and understand that most gay men aren't hanging out in the showers to get an eyeful of every guy there. The reality is....the whole "Shower" issue is nothing more than just another failed argument from the homophobes. Its actually kinda funny to see them still desperately grasping onto that one.
 
disneydude said:
Actually.....yes it is. The world has gotten over it. People have been showering with gay guys for ages. Most men really don't care....and most gay men aren't crusing the showers looking to catch a glimpse of every man's junk.
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I'll just say this. I'm straight and I would LOVE to hit the showers with a bunch of strange women at a local gym, because that's what im attracted to. So logic tells me if someone is attracted to a certain sex (male) they're going to enjoy showering with them. That's like a guy being on a team of 50+ Penthouse models and then hearing the bad news that he has to shower with them!! Oh the horror!!! Oh and one more thing, when did you become the spokesman for the world of heterosexual males??
 
Gringo allstar said:
Oh and one more thing, when did you become the spokesman for the world of heterosexual males??
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That was back in November 2010. He ran an effective campaign and won in a run-off election. I certainly haven't been disappointed that I voted for him.

But, hey -- if you are worried about being in a locker room with a gay guy, no problem. I'm sure people can understand. Not every man is confident enough to have a gay man see his junk, what with the worries about not measuring up and all.
 
Gardener said:
That was back in November 2010. He ran an effective campaign and won in a run-off election. I certainly haven't been disappointed that I voted for him.

But, hey -- if you are worried about being in a locker room with a gay guy, no problem. I'm sure people can understand. Not every man is confident enough to have a gay man see his junk, what with the worries about not measuring up and all.
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And you prefer to shower with gay men, that's fine if that's what you're into, im not. While we are on the subject, is there anything else you would like to tell me that Im supposed to be OK with?? Also is this something you do frequently? Or only occasionally??
 
Gringo allstar said:
I'll just say this. I'm straight and I would LOVE to hit the showers with a bunch of strange women at a local gym, because that's what im attracted to. So logic tells me if someone is attracted to a certain sex (male) they're going to enjoy showering with them. That's like a guy being on a team of 50+ Penthouse models and then hearing the bad news that he has to shower with them!! Oh the horror!!! Oh and one more thing, when did you become the spokesman for the world of heterosexual males??
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Oh puh-lease......get real. Most guys gay or straight....don't look at gym showers for a sexual adventure. Sorry to bust your bubble. The reality is...the vast majority of guys at a gym, straight or gay....go to do their exercise, hit the showers and go on with their day. In today's world, people aren't overly concerned about it....despite all of the homophobes efforts to desperately cling onto this argument. What is the one argument that you always still hear from these guys..."oh....the showers!!!!!". Most of us just laugh at their ignorance.
 
Gringo allstar said:
I'll just say this. I'm straight and I would LOVE to hit the showers with a bunch of strange women at a local gym, because that's what im attracted to. So logic tells me if someone is attracted to a certain sex (male) they're going to enjoy showering with them. That's like a guy being on a team of 50+ Penthouse models and then hearing the bad news that he has to shower with them!! Oh the horror!!! Oh and one more thing, when did you become the spokesman for the world of heterosexual males??
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Thanks for living up to the stereotype.
 
Gringo allstar said:
And you prefer to shower with gay men, that's fine if that's what you're into, im not. While we are on the subject, is there anything else you would like to tell me that Im supposed to be OK with?? Also is this something you do frequently? Or only occasionally??
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You sound so frightened and vulnerable, my heart goes out to you. The thought seems to be causing you a great deal of distress.

As to me, I'm not much in the habit of showering with men at all, since I don't belong to a gym or anything like that, but if I did, my every waking moment would not be spent in fear that they are gay. If they did happen to be gay, it wouldn't effect me so why worry about it?
 
Kobie said:
NFL GMs also ask players if their mothers are hookers.

Dolphins GM Ireland apologizes to Bryant for inappropriate question - NFL.com
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And you think i approve of that? Though now i suspect you might approve of both or deny there's any witch hunt. In any case, there are state and city laws it would be damn easy to prove they broke if a potential draft pick answered "no, i don't like girls" and didn't get picked. If they (other than the Rams obviously) want to persist in their discrimination and get sued like they so deserve, all good to me.
 
chromium said:
And you think i approve of that? Though now i suspect you might approve of both or deny there's any witch hunt. In any case, there are state and city laws it would be damn easy to prove they broke if a potential draft pick answered "no, i don't like girls" and didn't get picked. If they (other than the Rams obviously) want to persist in their discrimination and get sued like they so deserve, all good to me.
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There is no "witch hunt." Teams want to avoid the spectacle that the media (specifically ESPN) would make of it; they don't fear having a gay person on the team. Every one of these execs knows damn well there have been gay players in the past.

I'm still not convinced he won't catch on a practice squad somewhere in the next few days/weeks.
 
Zyphlin said:
Blame the media. Ask if there's been anywhere near the coverage of Blunt smoking up compared to Sam. The simple fact is that law violations typically don't cause a major distraction unless it's a major player. If it's a major player, the benefits to keeping them often outweigh the negative distraction. Sam is t a major player, he's a marginal one, so that equation is naturally going to look different.
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And why does the media care? Oh, because Sam is the first player who sensed it was safe to come out in college/pro football. The depth of intolerance is for the most part *reflected by* the media's obsession, not caused by or manufactured by.

Yes, ESPN crossed the line reporting on shower behavior. About the only thing we'll agree on
 
Zyphlin said:
Ludicrous and ridiculous. He was drafted in an entirely reasonable spot and there's no team in the nfl that would pass on him if they think he's worthy of a spot simply because he's gay. This is laughable and your desire to focus on preseason stats is just a continuation of your months long demonstration of your ignorance of football and your biased political based approach to this story.

The problem with Sam is the same as it's been....he's an end of the roster guy at best currently who is average at what you need end of the roster guys to do, special teams. He showed well against second and third stringers (mostly third) which means little in regards to being worthy as a pass rushing specialist on an actual 53 man squad.

None of which takes into account the quite reasonable decision front offices will need to make about the level of distraction bringing him in will cause for a likely practice squad talent, ala the ridiculous "shower" story.

No team gives any more of a **** that Sam is gay than they cared that Tebow was an evangelical. They care that his football skills aren't worth having on the team on their own or possibly when weighed against the distraction he unfortunantly brings along with himself.
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Yeah this is redundant as hell, same exact discrimination apologist bs from the last thread i left. Have fun enabling that discrimination every time you tune in. You're exactly what the "front offices" want, when they ask totally inappropriate personal questions at the rookie interviews, so they can decide who to screw over.

Half the NFL teams have 3-4 defense, they can be excused (assuming his special teams play isn't worth a spot). The Rams are stacked on DE and gave him a chance anyway, they can be excused. Most the other teams have no acceptable excuse.
 
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Zyphlin said:
One, T'eo wasn't "outed".
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He most certainly was. He invented a girlfriend out of thin air then killed her off when suspicions were raised. He's gay period. So obvious the GMs started asking that "do you like girls" question that year. As for his "distraction," at least he caused part of it. Comparison to Tebow is absurd, since he was given serious playing time. Sam did absolutely nothing to justify any of this "distraction" excuse.

Zyphlin said:
As to your ignorant opinion on people that you flat out admit to being based on prejudice as opposed to what they say, I don't care. You've shown the value and worth if your "insight" pretty clearly
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right back at you, but you might want to pick a less bigoted poster to defend. NP is notorious for obsessive gay bashing. If i cared what you thought i would simply go add up the # of threads he's made, then you can get back to us on how level headed he is about gay athletes.
 
chromium said:
He most certainly was. He invented a girlfriend out of thin air then killed her off when suspicions were raised. He's gay period.
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Te'o didn't "invent a girlfriend out of thin air." Te'o got catfished.
 
disneydude said:
Actually.....yes it is. The world has gotten over it. People have been showering with gay guys for ages. Most men really don't care....and most gay men aren't crusing the showers looking to catch a glimpse of every man's junk.
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Awfully full of themselves to think every gay guy will be attracted to their 350 pound lineman fat ass.

I've been saying all along, the nfl can afford shower curtains if it's such a big deal. According to all gay former players though, a huge number of their teammates and coaches just don't like homosexuals in any environment, and that's been the stumbling block.
 
Gay players are going to get the same discriminatory treatment from the NFL that White players have received for over a generation now.........unless they far exceed others at their position it's not worth the fan blowback to keep them on a team.
 
Gringo allstar said:
I'll just say this. I'm straight and I would LOVE to hit the showers with a bunch of strange women at a local gym, because that's what im attracted to. So logic tells me if someone is attracted to a certain sex (male) they're going to enjoy showering with them. That's like a guy being on a team of 50+ Penthouse models and then hearing the bad news that he has to shower with them!! Oh the horror!!! Oh and one more thing, when did you become the spokesman for the world of heterosexual males??
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If a bunch of NFL players are in shower with penthouse models, i'm guessing sex, consented or otherwise, is going to follow. That's the difference.

You also can't empathize at all clearly. I can't remember the name, but a former player on reggie white's team was gay and said he was "terrified" in the locker room. If you know you'll get beaten to a pulp if anyone suspects you are gay, which is along the lines what reggie white said ("he wouldn't have survived to the end of practice" or something) that's *not* a situation you'd look forward to. After this player's long time partner died, he couldn't even attend the damn funeral or mourn (it was mid season), for fear others on the team would find out.
 
chromium said:
If a bunch of NFL players are in shower with penthouse models, i'm guessing sex, consented or otherwise, is going to follow. That's the difference.

You also can't empathize at all clearly. I can't remember the name, but a former player on reggie white's team was gay and said he was "terrified" in the locker room. If you know you'll get beaten to a pulp if anyone suspects you are gay, which is along the lines what reggie white said ("he wouldn't have survived to the end of practice" or something) that's *not* a situation you'd look forward to. After this player's long time partner died, he couldn't even attend the damn funeral or mourn (it was mid season), for fear others on the team would find out.
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Your reading comprehension skills are lacking.
 
northwinds said:
Gay players are going to get the same discriminatory treatment from the NFL that White players have received for over a generation now.........unless they far exceed others at their position it's not worth the fan blowback to keep them on a team.
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This is laughable. The NFL does not discriminate against white players. Period. End of discussion.
 
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