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Study: Military is ready for transgender troops

TheDemSocialist said:
Beyond the ridiculous sources... There have been multiple done sources that have found similar results.. Are those "cooked"? But beyond that isnt this the "land of the free home of the brave"? Why does it matter if your are open and honest with yourself while fighting to "defend our freedoms"? Why should it matter? I could honestly care less if it was a straight man or woman, or a homosexual man or woman, or a bi man or woman, or hell a transsexual man or woman. Why does it matter?
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The source is the Department of Defense Inspector Generals Office.

And it obvious you didn't keep following the links and actually read the IG report.

Second there were two surveys conducted of the troops. The Obama White House didn't like the results of the first survey so they came up with a second survey for the troops. There was one problem, the Obama White House had the results of the survey before the survey was distributed to the troops.
That's how the Obama administration works, you should know that by now.

The DOD has been politicized.
 
apdst said:
That sound you just heard was my point going over your head.
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Do transexuals not have the ability to become of the "military family unit"?
 
APACHERAT said:
The source is the Department of Defense Inspector Generals Office.

And it obvious you didn't keep following the links and actually read the IG report.
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First links links two go to a "Center for Military Readiness — Policy Analysis —" And "It opposes allowing gay persons to serve in the military"... Wow tickled me shock talk about something called a clear bias!

The second link on the first link, links to this: "Page Not Found

Webview with alias page_not_found is not available. Please create it if you want to display a custom message"


Second there were two surveys conducted of the troops. The Obama White House didn't like the results of the first survey so they came up with a second survey for the troops. There was one problem, the Obama White House had the results of the survey before the survey was distributed to the troops.
That's how the Obama administration works, you should know that by now.

The DOD has been politicized.
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Or your links have a clear bias and you are going to say anything is "politicized" that goes against your official views.

Anyways please answer the question you ignored:

"But beyond that isnt this the "land of the free home of the brave"? Why does it matter if your are open and honest with yourself while fighting to "defend our freedoms"? Why should it matter? I could honestly care less if it was a straight man or woman, or a homosexual man or woman, or a bi man or woman, or hell a transsexual man or woman. Why does it matter?"
 
The wrong question is being asked here. The questions that should be being asked are...

How does allowing transgendered troops BENEFIT the military? Would the introduction of transgendered troops give us any sort of tactical advantage? Is the net result a stronger fighting force? Is their a tangible benefit besides appeasing the gods of political correctness?
 
More evidence that libs suck
 
I worked with two transgender 'girls'.

Nice people for the most part, kinda crazy though.

LOL at being in the military..., i mean ... just LOL
 
Gathomas88 said:
Transgender uniforms:

Millions and millions of dollars.
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No extra cost.

Gathomas88 said:
New administrative structures to handle transgender personnel:

More millions and millions of dollars.
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Explain what would be needed please. I think it will be negligable.

Gathomas88 said:
[Increase in combat effectiveness:

None.

Having our enemies laugh us out of the room just so the Left can indulge in yet more Politically Correct nonsense:

Priceless.

:roll:
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If they are laughing, they wouldnt be able to shoot straight.
 
Gaius46 said:
How many transgender people are there in the country? How many are of the appropriate age to serve? How many of those are capable of satisfactorily performing the whatever physical and mental tasks that need to be performed? How many of those actually want to join the military? I'm guessing we're talking about an insignificant number of people - a few thousand if I had to guess. If catering to them means lots of money and organizational upset it hardly seems worth the effort.
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No, catering. Just let them serve like everyone else.
 
Gathomas88 said:
Beyond which, the simple fact of the matter is that the military is not supposed to be about catering to individualism. To the contrary, it is built around the goal of crushing individualism in order to promote good order and fighting discipline.

There is no good reason whatsoever why we should make an exception to that rule for a bunch of confused flibbertigibbets who want to dress up and pretend like they're something they are not.
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Still no catering to anything. Treat them like the other service members.
 
apdst said:
It has nothing to do with ability. There's more to a unit than the ability of individual soldiers to fight. When you join the service, you're no longer an individual. A military element is a family unit, established by the family members living together.
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The first statement that has a basis of an actual reason. I dont think it will undermine troop effectiveness but it should be studied extensively to be sure.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
The wrong question is being asked here. The questions that should be being asked are...

How does allowing transgendered troops BENEFIT the military? Would the introduction of transgendered troops give us any sort of tactical advantage? Is the net result a stronger fighting force? Is their a tangible benefit besides appeasing the gods of political correctness?
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No, the question to ask is if it will hurt the military? If by allowing transgender troops, the military keeps going along with no change then they should be allowed as well.
 
Amandi said:
No extra cost.
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Nonsense. They'd have custom uniforms before the end of the decade.

It happened with women. It'd happen for transsexuals as well.

Explain what would be needed please. I think it will be negligable.
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"Awareness" campaigns, massive PR campaigns meant to sell the idea, new "sensitivity" curriculum, committees dedicated to looking into ways to make transsexuals feel "more comfortable," modifications to housing and barracks, massively inflated costs devoted to EO and IG complaints lobbied by transsexuals who feel "discriminated against," new training curriculum, etca, etca...

The list is basically endless.

If they are laughing, they wouldnt be able to shoot straight.
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The 111TH Fighting Shemale Brigade. I can hardly wait. :roll:

Amandi said:
Still no catering to anything. Treat them like the other service members.
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By which you mean making them suck it up and dress and lodge with their birth gender, like everyone else?

Sure. I could go for that.
 
Gathomas88 said:
Nonsense. They'd have custom uniforms before the end of the decade.

It happened with women. It'd happen for transsexuals as well.
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The last thing we want is to be different then the gender we present as. Trans-females will want to wear female uniforms and trans-males will want to wear male uniforms.



Gathomas88 said:
Awareness campaigns, massive PR campaigns meant to sell the idea, "sensitivity" curriculum, committees dedicated to looking into ways to make transsexuals feel "more comfortable," modifications to housing and barracks, massively inflated costs devoted to EO complaints lobbied by transsexuals who feel "discriminated against," new training curriculum, etca, etca...

The list is basically endless.
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Ok, you have a point here. I dont think it is an over-riding point, but it is a definate point to be discussed.



Gathomas88 said:
The 111TH Fighting Shemale Brigade. I can hardly wait. :roll:



By which you mean making them suck it up and dress and lodge with their birth gender, like everyone else?

Sure. I could go for that.
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No, allowing them to stay with the gender they identify as is not catering. It is just continuing what is already happening outside of the military anyway. I do admit, it might be too early yet.
 
Amandi said:
The last thing we want is to be different then the gender we present as. Trans-females will want to wear female uniforms and trans-males will want to wear male uniforms.
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They won't fit right, and we'll eventually wind up with the same situation we had where "unisex" uniforms were concerned.

Some dumbass up the chain will inevitably suggest making male uniforms with an expanded cut in the chest to accommodate breasts, and vice versa for the females. They will then subcontract the job out to some crony company at a ridiculously inflated government rate.

It's the way government works. If there's an excuse to waste tax payer money while showering one's self in accolades, the bureaucrats in charge will take it.

Ok, you have a point here. I dont think it is an over-riding point, but it is a definate point to be discussed.
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Would the military wind up having to pay for gender reassignment surgery?

No, allowing them to stay with the gender they identify as is not catering. It is just continuing what is already happening outside of the military anyway. I do admit, it might be too early yet.
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If you try to garrison transsexual men with females, you're going to run into some issues. The same goes for trying to garrison transsexual women with males.
 
Gathomas88 said:
They won't fit right, and we'll eventually wind up with the same situation we had where "unisex" uniforms were concerned.

Some dumbass up the chain will inevitably suggest making male uniforms with an expanded cut in the chest to accommodate breasts, and vice versa for the females. They will then subcontract the job out to some crony company at a ridiculously inflated government rate.

It's the way government works. If there's an excuse to waste tax payer money while showering one's self in accolades, the bureaucrats in charge will take it.



Would the military wind up having to pay for gender reassignment surgery?



If you try to garrison transsexual men with females, you're going to run into some issues. The same goes for trying to garrison transsexual women with males.
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The uniform is simple, tran females wear female uniforms and trans males wear male uniforms.

I agree the other needs researched and/or more time to see if it becomes more sociably accepted.
 
Much better to have those dedicated to protecting our country and willing to fight for that right and for us than those that sign up just for a job or because they have no other options.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Well there is already 15,500 in the military. Dont know if that is considered "lining up to serve" in your opinion. Dont see why it matters :shrug:
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It matters because I'm curious how big an issue this was. There's a ban on transgenders in place apparently. I don't know why that is, and I don't know if there are a lot of them who want to serve which is prompting this issue to be breaking news. Is it theater, or is it to actually do something because it impacts a lot of people?
 
tres borrachos said:
It matters because I'm curious how big an issue this was. There's a ban on transgenders in place apparently. I don't know why that is, and I don't know if there are a lot of them who want to serve which is prompting this issue to be breaking news. Is it theater, or is it to actually do something because it impacts a lot of people?
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Perhaps it should be a matter of who is best qualified to do a particular job and able to work, without undue disruption, within a team-oriented framework. The rest wouldn't seem to matter so much.

Those men who served with Bergdahl said they would have laid down their lives for him under enemy attack, and expected the same. I think that idea would transfer to all their fellow soldiers no matter what their sexual orientation.
 
Gaius46 said:
How many transgender people are there in the country? How many are of the appropriate age to serve? How many of those are capable of satisfactorily performing the whatever physical and mental tasks that need to be performed? How many of those actually want to join the military? I'm guessing we're talking about an insignificant number of people - a few thousand if I had to guess. If catering to them means lots of money and organizational upset it hardly seems worth the effort.
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There are more transgender soldiers than one might think. Obviously there aren't a whole lot, but there are enough, although most are in hiding since there are different standards on and off duty for what can be worn for each gender/sex in the military. They even have a discussion forum of their own somewhere on the net. I went looking for more information after my transgendered sister, who was in the Army at the time, came out to us and found the forum, just can't remember what the name was.

A few thousand in a military of less than 1.5 million is a pretty good number. It's 0.13%, and there wouldn't really be too many changes needed. There are uniforms already there for both genders, and several working uniforms are now unisex. Our NWUs are unisex, which is why I can wear the ones my husband has (besides the rank anyway, but the pants are easily switched).
 
Gathomas88 said:
They won't fit right, and we'll eventually wind up with the same situation we had where "unisex" uniforms were concerned.

Some dumbass up the chain will inevitably suggest making male uniforms with an expanded cut in the chest to accommodate breasts, and vice versa for the females. They will then subcontract the job out to some crony company at a ridiculously inflated government rate.

It's the way government works. If there's an excuse to waste tax payer money while showering one's self in accolades, the bureaucrats in charge will take it.

Would the military wind up having to pay for gender reassignment surgery?

If you try to garrison transsexual men with females, you're going to run into some issues. The same goes for trying to garrison transsexual women with males.
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In the Navy, our working uniforms, NWUs and coveralls anyway, already are unisex. The other uniforms are generally tailored, particularly those that would see the most issues.

Now, personally, I think there should be some wait for this. I don't think it would be so much of an issue accepting transsexuals into the military or allowing transgendered soldiers, sailors, Marines, and airmen to go out in their civilian attire as their preferred gendered, but I do believe it may be a bit soon to have preop transgendered personnel to live as their preferred gender in the military.
 
roguenuke said:
In the Navy, our working uniforms, NWUs and coveralls anyway, already are unisex. The other uniforms are generally tailored, particularly those that would see the most issues.

Now, personally, I think there should be some wait for this. I don't think it would be so much of an issue accepting transsexuals into the military or allowing transgendered soldiers, sailors, Marines, and airmen to go out in their civilian attire as their preferred gendered, but I do believe it may be a bit soon to have preop transgendered personnel to live as their preferred gender in the military.
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As a pre-op transexual who served in the Navy, I agree with this. Not that my agreement really matters, just saying.
 
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