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ISIS Demands $6.6M Ransom for 26-Year-Old American Woman.....

Fearandloathing said:
There is no link there so I have to take it as opinion, and one poorly formed. I seriously doubt the entire nation of Islam is of the faith that "killing infidels" is fun. If you were to read the Koran, and what it calls the faithful to do, you would find that anyone following that religion would not welcome death, but fear it like the rest of us as they too believe in final judgement.

No entire nation can be so crassly and sweepingly identified and judged. Would you dare say that all blacks are criminals, of that all Jews are cheats?

Same bigoted, racial stereo-typing; you have been taught to hate all Muslims in the xenophobic propaganda campaign following 911.
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I said "Islamic Radicals"... do you see all Muslims as Islamic Radicals?
 
Fearandloathing said:
No but you do
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No I don't. I see Islamic Radicals as Islamic radicals. Somehow me mentioning the patently obvious that Islamic radicals are killing themselves to get to heaven has your panties in a twist and accusing me of things I never said.
 
zoetherat said:
It's better if we don't pay these types of ransoms. Ever. If we did, we'd just turn the taking of American hostages into a business and end up financing Isis with it. I also don't think there's really much we can do to stop these killings either. We just have to remember that far more Americans die from car accidents then will ever be killed by Isis.
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Not if we weren't there it wouldn't.
 
jmotivator said:
No I don't. I see Islamic Radicals as Islamic radicals. Somehow me mentioning the patently obvious that Islamic radicals are killing themselves to get to heaven has your panties in a twist and accusing me of things I never said.
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But that's all you and every other American talk about, radicals as if all Muslims are radicals and I am sick of it.

Every "radical" is having "fun" killing while we have video and tape evidence of American soldiers laughing as their rockets slaughter people, in one case an American journalist.

But post one picture of a machine gun aimed at a kid's head and a terrified nation demands yet another invasion without even proof the guns are held by Muslims or ISIS, they could be American boy scouts.

I have seldom seen on an American board one comment nor link to a Muslim organization that has deplored these attacks and when they do occur, there are 3 to one posts claiming its all lies. Watching American television and film, one gets the clear idea that, as you have asserted [albeit with the world weary phrase "extremists"] Muslims really, really like killing, and believe they will go to heaven for doing so. It is ignored that Muslims have been living among you, winning world boxing titles, curing cancer, inventing telephone aps since the early 1900's. It has never occurred to anyone that Muslims live in peace in Canada [that claim always gets challenged with claims of riots in Canadian cities, but there is never a link], that they live as a majority in Indonesia, a land with a fraction of the crime rate of even your best city.

But that NEVER gets mentioned anywhere in US media.
 
Cephus said:
There are no rules. There are only things that are more or less effective. If dealing with a group that only understands violence, then using violence against that group is called for. You can't reason with the unreasonable.
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Considering our foreign policy in the ME has been primarily violence, I'd say we have a good idea of what it is to only understand violence. Violence begets violence, do a kind deed to the guy next to you on the bus and see if he responds to it by punching you in the nose. Basically, if we don't see enough Americans pull their heads out and acknowledge failed US policy in the ME instead of arguing over which party is responsible, we're going to eventually feel the pain. And it would appear that the guy you're responding to there would be fine that we become the evil we seek to defeat.
 
Mason66 said:
It might sound cold, however when somebody goes to a **** hole like Syria they should sign a release form at the airport stating they know they are on their own if something like this happens.

She had no business being there in the first place.
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Yeah, ok. Sad thing is, before the US supported violence to overthrow president Assad (our favourite ME policy) Americans vacationed there. We need to bring this woman back. If it was your daughter you'd agree, so don't be selfish. I would agree that all Americans in Syria should be told to leave. But then they should probably be told to leave all the countries in which we've created enemies. I'll spare you the list, it may be lengthy.
 
Montecresto said:
Considering our foreign policy in the ME has been primarily violence, I'd say we have a good idea of what it is to only understand violence. Violence begets violence, do a kind deed to the guy next to you on the bus and see if he responds to it by punching you in the nose. Basically, if we don't see enough Americans pull their heads out and acknowledge failed US policy in the ME instead of arguing over which party is responsible, we're going to eventually feel the pain. And it would appear that the guy you're responding to there would be fine that we become the evil we seek to defeat.
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It isn't just the ME that we have a problem with, American foreign policy in general has failed because it's based on "we're America, you do what we want". It's been that way for a long, long time, we want to lead the show, we don't want to be an equal partner in world governance. We depose democratically elected governments because they don't follow our orders, we impose political systems and dictators on people who don't want them, we prop them up with money and weapons and eventually and invariably, we always have to go in and take them out when they stop taking our directions. This is how the entire Middle East, and elsewhere, has been run for decades, going back into the 50s and beyond. What we've done to the world is coming home to roost, we've radicalized much of the Middle East through our actions and while I agree that continuing to meet violence with violence isn't a good thing, it really is the only option because the radical elements in the Middle East are not capable of reason. You can't talk to them. They have an irrational hatred of all things western and want nothing more than to see us all dead. There are only two things that we can do over the long term to defuse the situation. Get the hell out of their business, pull our interests out of the Middle East as much as possible and show them that we do not respond well to threats. Let them run their own countries and if they try to attack others, stomp them into the ground and then pull back again.

This isn't an ethical problem. This is a logistical problem. We lost the moral high ground a long, long time ago.
 
MMC said:
What George Bush broke? Try again Monte. ;)


How Reagan’s Mideast Policy Won the Cold War.....


Ronald Reagan’s centenary coincides with the unraveling of Ronald Reagan’s Middle East. The president born February 6, 1911, is most associated with the dramatic end of the Cold War in Europe. But you can make a powerful case that the Cold War was won — not in Europe — but in the Middle East. Four events were decisive. 1. The Reagan administration cemented Egypt, the largest and most important Arab country, into the U.S. alliance system.

Banished from Egypt, the Soviets developed a relationship with the second strongest Arab state, Iraq. On June 7, 1981, Israeli jets smashed the Iraqi nuclear reactor at Osirak. The Reagan administration joined the UN condemnation of Israel. Yet the U.S. benefited enormously from the act it condemned. Lacking nuclear weapons, on the defensive in the war it had launched against Iran in September 1980, Iraq was forced into greater economic dependence on the Gulf Arab states aligned with the U.S. — another blow to Soviet influence. 3. Middle East events forced the Soviet Union toward an (ultimately doomed) reconstruction of its economy.....snip~

How Reagan’s Mideast Policy Won the Cold War
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It was Reagan that created the first power vacuum in the ME. He armed the Mujahideen. This denied the soviets influence in Afghanistan, but it gave rise to an American enemy, the Taliban, which we then had to spend a trillion dollars and how much blood now? fighting them there. And when we leave here in a little bit, it will NOT be a democracy. Add that trillion dollars to Reagan's national debt and he quadrupled it instead of tripling it.
 
Cephus said:
It isn't just the ME that we have a problem with, American foreign policy in general has failed because it's based on "we're America, you do what we want". It's been that way for a long, long time, we want to lead the show, we don't want to be an equal partner in world governance. We depose democratically elected governments because they don't follow our orders, we impose political systems and dictators on people who don't want them, we prop them up with money and weapons and eventually and invariably, we always have to go in and take them out when they stop taking our directions. This is how the entire Middle East, and elsewhere, has been run for decades, going back into the 50s and beyond. What we've done to the world is coming home to roost, we've radicalized much of the Middle East through our actions and while I agree that continuing to meet violence with violence isn't a good thing, it really is the only option because the radical elements in the Middle East are not capable of reason. You can't talk to them. They have an irrational hatred of all things western and want nothing more than to see us all dead. There are only two things that we can do over the long term to defuse the situation. Get the hell out of their business, pull our interests out of the Middle East as much as possible and show them that we do not respond well to threats. Let them run their own countries and if they try to attack others, stomp them into the ground and then pull back again.

This isn't an ethical problem. This is a logistical problem. We lost the moral high ground a long, long time ago.
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Great post Cephus, now required reading for all 5th graders! Won't see me disagreeing with a thing you stated there! Lets just hope more Americans begin to realise it.
 
Fearandloathing said:
But that's all you and every other American talk about, radicals as if all Muslims are radicals and I am sick of it.
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So you have taken what I said and turned it into what I didn't say due to me being a member of a stereotype that you hold? How open minded of you! I would say that if you interpret all us Americans by the same corrupt method that it is you that has an issue.

Every "radical" is having "fun" killing while we have video and tape evidence of American soldiers laughing as their rockets slaughter people, in one case an American journalist.
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False. I said they kill to have fun in the after life. But let me know when an American Soldier posts a picture of his 6 year old son holding a human head with the caption "That's my boy." Show me where the decapitation of toddlers is a standing order in the US military. Your disgusting equivalencies won't win you many arguments.

But post one picture of a machine gun aimed at a kid's head and a terrified nation demands yet another invasion without even proof the guns are held by Muslims or ISIS, they could be American boy scouts.
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This is also false. The pictures are of dead, headless babies. The Pictures are of ISIS pinning a naked woman down on a table and slitting her throat and draining her blood into buckets. The videos are of decapitations of American journalists. The videos are of ISIS fighters gunning down hundreds of prisoners. The Videos are of hundreds of women being carted off in cages to be sold as slaves. The videos are of ISIS fighters announcing their marriage to a crying 11 year old girl who's parents have been killed.

Your blithering idiocy on this subject is plainly apparent.

I have seldom seen on an American board one comment nor link to a Muslim organization that has deplored these attacks and when they do occur, there are 3 to one posts claiming its all lies. Watching American television and film, one gets the clear idea that, as you have asserted [albeit with the world weary phrase "extremists"] Muslims really, really like killing, and believe they will go to heaven for doing so. It is ignored that Muslims have been living among you, winning world boxing titles, curing cancer, inventing telephone aps since the early 1900's. It has never occurred to anyone that Muslims live in peace in Canada [that claim always gets challenged with claims of riots in Canadian cities, but there is never a link], that they live as a majority in Indonesia, a land with a fraction of the crime rate of even your best city.
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Show me this happening on this board. Show me you aren't making it up. More importantly, show me taking part in it before you stereotype me.

But that NEVER gets mentioned anywhere in US media.
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What do you know about American media?
 
Montecresto said:
Great post Cephus, now required reading for all 5th graders! Won't see me disagreeing with a thing you stated there! Lets just hope more Americans begin to realise it.
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Unfortunately, they won't. You have one group who want to maintain the status quo and continue to run around the planet waggling our dick and another group who wants everyone on the planet to love us after having spent the past half-century screwing everything up. Neither side has a clue and both sides are in power. Rebuilding our reputation is going to take a lot of time and a lot of patience and require that we stop doing all of the things that have pissed the planet off at us. Neither the American people, nor the American government, has the will to do that.
 
Montecresto said:
There was a prior invasion of Iraq. Do you recall OBL's open letter articulating the very reasons why he attacked on 9/11?????
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And now you want to give some Muslim an open letter articulating the very reasons why IS will be attacked? Perhaps you give too much credibility to individual terrorist threats.
 
Grant said:
And now you want to give some Muslim an open letter articulating the very reasons why IS will be attacked? Perhaps you give too much credibility to individual terrorist threats.
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So, is it your opinion now that OBL was neither the guy that attacked America on 9/11, nor the leader of al Qaeda? Lol, maybe you should stick to selling dream vacations.
 
Montecresto said:
Oh, is that suppose to let Bush off the hook? He created the power vacuum in Iraq. Obama created one in Egypt, and one in Libya and he's working on Syria, so yeah he's made it worse to be sure.
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You should stop whining about Bush, despite being acknowledged has having brought stability to the region. America is at war. America includes every political stripe, religious belief, and race.

What happens now?
 
Cephus said:
Unfortunately, they won't. You have one group who want to maintain the status quo and continue to run around the planet waggling our dick and another group who wants everyone on the planet to love us after having spent the past half-century screwing everything up. Neither side has a clue and both sides are in power. Rebuilding our reputation is going to take a lot of time and a lot of patience and require that we stop doing all of the things that have pissed the planet off at us. Neither the American people, nor the American government, has the will to do that.
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Well, I regrettably have to agree with that as well.
 
Grant said:
You should stop whining about Bush, despite being acknowledged has having brought stability to the region. America is at war. America includes every political stripe, religious belief, and race.

What happens now?
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You get Harper involved.
 
Montecresto said:
So, is it your opinion now that OBL was neither the guy that attacked America on 9/11, nor the leader of al Qaeda? Lol, maybe you should stick to selling dream vacations.
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Do you have a quote where I said any of that? It certainly wasn't on the one you were responding to.
 
Montecresto said:
It was Reagan that created the first power vacuum in the ME. He armed the Mujahideen. This denied the soviets influence in Afghanistan, but it gave rise to an American enemy, the Taliban, which we then had to spend a trillion dollars and how much blood now? fighting them there. And when we leave here in a little bit, it will NOT be a democracy. Add that trillion dollars to Reagan's national debt and he quadrupled it instead of tripling it.
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You forget that the Russians up to that point was the dominant player. Afghanistan and Egypt on the other End. Then Russia's fall back. Iraq and Syria. Also as to what would have then taken place with their dominance thru the entire ME.
 
Fearandloathing said:
There is no link there so I have to take it as opinion, and one poorly formed. I seriously doubt the entire nation of Islam is of the faith that "killing infidels" is fun. If you were to read the Koran, and what it calls the faithful to do, you would find that anyone following that religion would not welcome death, but fear it like the rest of us as they too believe in final judgement.

No entire nation can be so crassly and sweepingly identified and judged. Would you dare say that all blacks are criminals, of that all Jews are cheats?

Same bigoted, racial stereo-typing; you have been taught to hate all Muslims in the xenophobic propaganda campaign following 911.
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The message that "Not all Muslims are terrorists" has been dealt with thoroughly. There is not one person in the western democracies who doesn't know that.
 
Grant said:
The message that "Not all Muslims are terrorists" has been dealt with thoroughly. There is not one person in the western democracies who doesn't know that.
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Yet your reaction to muslims (as an example barring all muslims from being able to immigrate to Canada) suggests perhaps you do not know this.
 
Grant said:
Do you have a quote where I said any of that? It certainly wasn't on the one you were responding to.
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Referring to OBL as one individual terrorist is laughable, and dismissing the reason for an attack from the guy that attacked you, and told you why, is stupid. But you have good company.
 
MMC said:
You forget that the Russians up to that point was the dominant player. Afghanistan and Egypt on the other End. Then Russia's fall back. Iraq and Syria. Also as to what would have then taken place with their dominance thru the entire ME.
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Well tell me, what could have been worse then what we have with the US having been the dominant influence in the ME for twenty years?
 
Fearandloathing said:
But that's all you and every other American talk about, radicals as if all Muslims are radicals and I am sick of it.
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That is false.
Every "radical" is having "fun" killing while we have video and tape evidence of American soldiers laughing as their rockets slaughter people, in one case an American journalist.
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Do you feel that the American military is no better than ISIS?
But post one picture of a machine gun aimed at a kid's head and a terrified nation demands yet another invasion without even proof the guns are held by Muslims or ISIS, they could be American boy scouts.
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You find that likely?
I have seldom seen on an American board one comment nor link to a Muslim organization that has deplored these attacks and when they do occur, there are 3 to one posts claiming its all lies.
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Perhaps because a Muslim protesting violence against innocent people on an American board is not going to attract as much attention as, for example, Muslims rioting or murdering over Mohammed cartoons.
Watching American television and film, one gets the clear idea that, as you have asserted [albeit with the world weary phrase "extremists"] Muslims really, really like killing, and believe they will go to heaven for doing so.
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Well some do. Even send their unfortunate children out to bomb innocent people. Should we censor that?
It is ignored that Muslims have been living among you, winning world boxing titles, curing cancer, inventing telephone aps since the early 1900's.
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I think most people would be pleased to hear of Muslim accomplishments. I know Obama wants them to be included in NASA so they can develop more self esteem.
It has never occurred to anyone that Muslims live in peace in Canada [that claim always gets challenged with claims of riots in Canadian cities, but there is never a link], that they live as a majority in Indonesia, a land with a fraction of the crime rate of even your best city.
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You claim to live in Vancouver but genuinely don't know of the riots? How about the planned beheading of the PM? The planned bombing of a passenger train? None of these attracted your attention - and you actually need a link???
But that NEVER gets mentioned anywhere in US media.
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It seems you are really not familiar with events in Canada. Perhaps you should find out more of what's going on in Canada and then turn your criticism to the States.
 
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